Some Things You Dislike About Columbia

[superjack]

Let me ALSO agree about the right wing nutcase politics of this state. I LOVE my state, but dang... sometimes I'm embarrassed by the close-minded backwards people that run it.

Question: Why do directly relate being right winged (even make it synonymous) with "nutcase," "close-minded," and "backwards?" Hate to break it to you BryCola, but there are plenty of left wingers who are also quite backwards. Sometimes a person can be open to alternative points of view, carefully consider those points of view, and still choose to be conservative. I agree with you that politics in this state become downright absurd sometimes -- but the right isn't always the culprit. I don't like labels, but if I had to put one on myself such as "right" or "left," I would definitely be "right." So, you're stepping on my toes a little here. I am also highly educated (3 college degrees & working towards a doctorate), a very accomplished professional musician, a lover of sports (especially USC), active in the professional arena in the Columbia area, and a Christian. One might scratch his head and think that's an odd combination, but that's me. Don't be so short sighted as to think the left is always right and right is always wrong. They are, however, two differing ideologies and you are certainly free to align yourself with whichever one you choose. There are very bright people on both sides of the fence, and I'm big enough to say that my side isn't always right. It isn't always wrong either. Just something for you folks to think about. Now, back to the discussion!

[krazeeboi]

While much of what you have stated is true superjack, we really don't run into a whole lot of left-wing nutcases in the South; I've yet to see a politician in this state oppose any and all types of development because he's a tree-hugger. Right-wingers, or more specifically, extreme right-wingers have historically had a political grip on the South and SC is definitely no exception. I too am a Christian and consider myself moderate with conservative tendencies, but at the same time truth is truth.

[superjack]

While much of what you have stated is true superjack, we really don't run into a whole lot of left-wing nutcases in the South; I've yet to see a politician in this state oppose any and all types of development because he's a tree-hugger. Right-wingers, or more specifically, extreme right-wingers have historically had a political grip on the South and SC is definitely no exception. I too am a Christian and consider myself moderate with conservative tendencies, but at the same time truth is truth.

Yeah, krazee, I too agree with most of what you say. I guess sometimes I read a post and think "here we go again." I must confess, I am very independent minded. I am very conservative on some issues and surprisingly liberal on others. I just don't like to be one or the other because I think that's the way my side should be. Just so you guys know, I'm very behind most of the ideas that are discussed on this board. I just don't like politics. And yes, any politician who's holding up progress in Columbia (and by that I mean its development into a top-notch city) should be drug out into the street and shot. I love this city and I'm behind it 100%. It has such potential to be a special place -- and it's the heart of Gamecock Country!!!

[krazeeboi]

Great potential it does have, and it's being realized more and more every day.

[Doug L]

Question: Why do directly relate being right winged (even make it synonymous) with "nutcase," "close-minded," and "backwards?" Hate to break it to you BryCola, but there are plenty of left wingers who are also quite backwards. Sometimes a person can be open to alternative points of view, carefully consider those points of view, and still choose to be conservative. I agree with you that politics in this state become downright absurd sometimes -- but the right isn't always the culprit. I don't like labels, but if I had to put one on myself such as "right" or "left," I would definitely be "right." So, you're stepping on my toes a little here. I am also highly educated (3 college degrees & working towards a doctorate), a very accomplished professional musician, a lover of sports (especially USC), active in the professional arena in the Columbia area, and a Christian. One might scratch his head and think that's an odd combination, but that's me. Don't be so short sighted as to think the left is always right and right is always wrong. They are, however, two differing ideologies and you are certainly free to align yourself with whichever one you choose. There are very bright people on both sides of the fence, and I'm big enough to say that my side isn't always right. It isn't always wrong either. Just something for you folks to think about. Now, back to the discussion!

superjack:

I too think 'right wingers' are nut cases! That having been said, based on your response you certainly do not fit the description of 'right winger'. In fact, you sound down right progressive. I like that!

For what it is worth, I think 'left wingers' are a bit nuts also! I like to think of myself as a progressive with strong feelings to the left but that is because I believe strongly in the rights of the individual as well as things for the common good.

krazeeboi, I think you hit the nail on the head! I love Columbia and yearn for a state legislature that is not comprised of city hating farmer hicks that may have a degree from some university but have no more common sense than a jack ass. For some reason the electorate of SC has the habit of sending to the State House (and Washington) the worse of the worse.

[BryCola]

SuperJack...I consider myself a recovering right winger. When I was younger, I swung WAY to the right. Until I realized that most ultra right wingers were uneducated, backwards, and an embarrassment to the South, where their stronghold is. If you aren't white, straight, and male...you're a second class citizen. That's what opened my eyes. And bringing God into politics was the final straw for me and the conservative bigots. Sorry...just the way I see it. Of course you're free to disagree.

[goodbye]

...it's the heart of Gamecock Country!!!

From everything I've read, seen, and heard, this is the general reason behind most of the love and hatred for Columbia. I am impartial, but generally tend to dislike decent-sized cities revolving around a university. I think Knoxville was the last straw. Therefore, something I dislike about Columbia is the way it tries to push the university everywhere in front of the city. Okay, I know this will not be well received, but I personally prefer cities that stand on their own feet, and don't rely so heavily on students. Having a university in or near a city is a great economic boost, but don't let it take over the city's image. Also, in such a case, the many people who dislike the school based on rivalry will never consider moving there. This is just an opinion.

[digital_sandlapper]

SuperJack...I consider myself a recovering right winger. When I was younger, I swung WAY to the right. Until I realized that most ultra right wingers were uneducated, backwards, and an embarrassment to the South, where their stronghold is. If you aren't white, straight, and male...you're a second class citizen. That's what opened my eyes. And bringing God into politics was the final straw for me and the conservative bigots. Sorry...just the way I see it. Of course you're free to disagree.

Folks, interesting debate on right and left--and healthy. I think we're all in agreement about most things, especially some of the great ideas for fostering Columbia, the state, etc. on this site. BryCola, I agree Superjack jumped to conclusions with your earlier comment -- you were certainly not calling all conservatives nut cases, nor excluding extremists on the far left. Your explanation above says it well--and I share your "coming of age" experience in the way we view things.

I am frustrated as well with the ultra-conservatives who rule this state. I feel I'm not alone in considering them close-minded (as opposed to liberal- also known as OPEN-minded) and obsessed to the point of hysteria on saving the morals of us all instead of concentrating on the proper role of government--which is what our great governor is trying his damnedess to do. (To an unfortunately small success rate thus far.) I support the governor in his valiant attempt to get these pious hypocrites (my term) back on task, no matter how futile. So, I AM a conservative, but also liberal-minded, person. There is a balance, and it's called "progressive"--which is something this state needs MORE of!! Mark Sanford is the best example that there is hope yet, IMO.

I think one of the great things about this site is that we have a forum that we otherwise might not have to agree/disagree. It really is a diverse group of posters here--with varying viewpoints that is a healthy, healthy thing. After all, we want what's best for our hometowns, adopted or otherwise, and state, regardless of political persuasion, race, gender, age, class, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. All of which is happily represented on this board. Now, back to subject . .

[Charleston native]

From everything I've read, seen, and heard, this is the general reason behind most of the love and hatred for Columbia. I am impartial, but generally tend to dislike decent-sized cities revolving around a university. I think Knoxville was the last straw. Therefore, something I dislike about Columbia is the way it tries to push the university everywhere in front of the city. Okay, I know this will not be well received, but I personally prefer cities that stand on their own feet, and don't rely so heavily on students. Having a university in or near a city is a great economic boost, but don't let it take over the city's image. Also, in such a case, the many people who dislike the school based on rivalry will never consider moving there. This is just an opinion.

Actually Skyliner, I agree with you. While Cola sure has some positives, one of the things that I dislike about it is the university's influence on everything throughout the city. Most cities that I have enjoyed are usually ones which have quality universities and educational opportunities, but the schools don't act as the cities' "center of the universe". And folks, this is coming from a USC grad school student!

Most of Cola's functions, facilities, and activities revolve around the university. I realize USC is very important to the city, but therein lies the problem. Most bars and restaurants in the DT area, including some in the Vista, cater to USC students and officials. To make a city a destination such as Charlotte or Atlanta, there needs to be a quality of life and business opportunities that exist outside of any major universities in the city. Cola has sorely needed to build that kind of reputation. Take, for instance, the baseball stadium. The city couldn't keep a minor league baseball team, but practically bowed to USC for a new baseball stadium near the river. They couldn't even try to get the university and a minor-league team to share the stadium.

[digital_sandlapper]

From everything I've read, seen, and heard, this is the general reason behind most of the love and hatred for Columbia. I am impartial, but generally tend to dislike decent-sized cities revolving around a university. I think Knoxville was the last straw. Therefore, something I dislike about Columbia is the way it tries to push the university everywhere in front of the city. Okay, I know this will not be well received, but I personally prefer cities that stand on their own feet, and don't rely so heavily on students. Having a university in or near a city is a great economic boost, but don't let it take over the city's image. Also, in such a case, the many people who dislike the school based on rivalry will never consider moving there. This is just an opinion.

Skyliner, you bring up a good (and brave) point here. I AM partial to the Gamecocks--always will be--but the rivalry does get to be a little tiresome even for me. I must admit, I do look with daggers at anyone who dares come around Columbia parading Clemson colors, and team logo. That's silly. (I also HATE the fact that Clemson Road, probably named by some fan out in the sticks decades ago as a poke in the eye to USC fans so prevalent around him has now become the major road that it is! It should be re-named, a part of me insists. This is, silly as well, I know.)

So, good point: this silly sports rivalry thing is a bit much. No one should get carried away to the point of becoming obnoxious. (Have you been to Clemson lately--they are just as guilty, or more so.) However, I disagree about the University "taking over" the city. They are a HUGE part of what makes Columbia what it is, and I for one think they are the most progressive and crucial political and economic force in town. So, THANK GOD FOR USC!!! But, yay for other teams so long as they're not playing us. (Yes, I do pull for Clemson even sometimes.)

[superjack]

Folks, interesting debate on right and left--and healthy. I think we're all in agreement about most things, especially some of the great ideas for fostering Columbia, the state, etc. on this site. BryCola, I agree Superjack jumped to conclusions with your earlier comment -- you were certainly not calling all conservatives nut cases, nor excluding extremists on the far left. Your explanation above says it well--and I share your "coming of age" experience in the way we view things.

I am frustrated as well with the ultra-conservatives who rule this state. I feel I'm not alone in considering them close-minded (as opposed to liberal- also known as OPEN-minded) and obsessed to the point of hysteria on saving the morals of us all instead of concentrating on the proper role of government--which is what our great governor is trying his damnedess to do. (To an unfortunately small success rate thus far.) I support the governor in his valiant attempt to get these pious hypocrites (my term) back on task, no matter how futile. So, I AM a conservative, but also liberal-minded, person. There is a balance, and it's called "progressive"--which is something this state needs MORE of!! Mark Sanford is the best example that there is hope yet, IMO.

I think one of the great things about this site is that we have a forum that we otherwise might not have to agree/disagree. It really is a diverse group of posters here--with varying viewpoints that is a healthy, healthy thing. After all, we want what's best for our hometowns, adopted or otherwise, and state, regardless of political persuasion, race, gender, age, class, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. All of which is happily represented on this board. Now, back to subject . .

First of all, Brycola, forgive me if I offended you in any way. I guess I consider myself moderate with a bent toward the right. I agree with digital sandlapper that our governor is doing a great job. One of my best friends works at the State House and it's really funny hearing stories about how he has things "all shook up." More power to him. I also agree that government shouldn't be in the business of legislating morality. People's moral compass exists at an individual level. Reaching people at that level is the job of churches (or their equivalent) and individuals -- NOT government. Did I mention that I hate politics and the two-party system. I wish we voted on individuals for what they stood for, not because what party they belonged to. For example, in the 2000 presidential election, I seriously considered voting for Alan Keys, but I didn't think he had a chance to win the primary or the election. Also, being a republican or democrat means little to me at the local & state level. I'm interested in voting for someone who can get things done. It is important for me to vote for someone who aligns with me on moral values. Bottom line: this is a never-ending debate. We all have slightly different view points based on our own experiences. We should appreciate and respect our differences and the balance of power we have in the United States. Hopefully we will never shift too far left or right (politically speaking). And, I appreciate all of your responses to my post -- I didn't think it would be noticed this much.

The light poles and power lines in the middle of Assembly Street may be the thing I hate the most about Columbia day in and day out. This should have been addressed long ago. Could we possibly have something any less attractive decorating the largest and most traveled thoroughfare in the city of Columbia?

[GamecockEngineer]

From everything I've read, seen, and heard, this is the general reason behind most of the love and hatred for Columbia. I am impartial, but generally tend to dislike decent-sized cities revolving around a university. I think Knoxville was the last straw. Therefore, something I dislike about Columbia is the way it tries to push the university everywhere in front of the city. Okay, I know this will not be well received, but I personally prefer cities that stand on their own feet, and don't rely so heavily on students. Having a university in or near a city is a great economic boost, but don't let it take over the city's image. Also, in such a case, the many people who dislike the school based on rivalry will never consider moving there. This is just an opinion.

I think having a flagship university in a city is a great asset. It's something I look for in a city. I don't think USC is Columbia or Columbia is USC. I do think that they are both integral parts of each other and feed off of each other. Due to Cola's size compared to USC's size, I think that USC is much more visable compared to Ga Tech to Atlanta.

[goodbye]

I brought it up because it clearly appears to most people that USC is Columbia and Columbia is USC. I did not say that a university should have no effect on a city, but that it should not be the only focus of a decent-sized city, in my opinion. You have countless people loving and hating the city based simply on the Gamecock image in Columbia.

[BryCola]

I brought it up because it clearly appears to most people that USC is Columbia and Columbia is USC. I did not say that a university should have no effect on a city, but that it should not be the only focus of a decent-sized city, in my opinion. You have countless people loving and hating the city based simply on the Gamecock image in Columbia.

Skyliner, I have to disagree with you on this one. Medium sized cities with a major university are the PERFECT places to live in my opinion. That's why I love Columbia...it's why I like Baton Rouge, Austin, Knoxville, etc. And it's why I find Greenville kind of depressing. No true identity up there. Not really even a true downtown or skyline. USC is one of the things that makes Columbia great. It attracts academic types...students as well as faculty. Columbia gets much more national exposure because of USC. Carolina is routinely on TV nationally in football, basketball, etc. And USC being here is one reason that Columbia is much more of a progressive city that most places in this state. I love the atmosphere of college towns. I would quickly grow BORED living in such places as Greenville, Augusta, etc. Again, just my opinion.

[digital_sandlapper]

Skyliner, I have to disagree with you on this one. Medium sized cities with a major university are the PERFECT places to live in my opinion. That's why I love Columbia...it's why I like Baton Rouge, Austin, Knoxville, etc. And it's why I find Greenville kind of depressing. No true identity up there. Not really even a true downtown or skyline. USC is one of the things that makes Columbia great. It attracts academic types...students as well as faculty. Columbia gets much more national exposure because of USC. Carolina is routinely on TV nationally in football, basketball, etc. And USC being here is one reason that Columbia is much more of a progressive city that most places in this state. I love the atmosphere of college towns. I would quickly grow BORED living in such places as Greenville, Augusta, etc. Again, just my opinion.

BryCola, I agree totally that college towns are great! Don't forget Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill or Athens, GA. Those places have some of the highest qualities of life in the country (and Columbia as well.)

I find Greenville and Augusta very nice and would live in either, especiall the latter. It does have Ga. Medical College, Augusta State, and others. Greenville has Furman, although it is unfortunately out of town. (A regrettable thing--imagine Greenville if it would have had Furman as part of its urban fabric--wow!)

And you are so right about Columbia being a better place not only because of the students and their impact, the educational and cultural opportunities, and sports, but also because of the faculty, staff, and others affiliated with the University that come from around the world. Columbia is quite cosmopolitan for its size. We can thank USC especially, but also Ft. Jackson, and the simple fact that it is a booming city. It should be very proud of itself in that regard. (We could use more ethnic restaurants, though. Hopefully they will continue to come.)

[krazeeboi]

From everything I've read, seen, and heard, this is the general reason behind most of the love and hatred for Columbia. I am impartial, but generally tend to dislike decent-sized cities revolving around a university. I think Knoxville was the last straw. Therefore, something I dislike about Columbia is the way it tries to push the university everywhere in front of the city. Okay, I know this will not be well received, but I personally prefer cities that stand on their own feet, and don't rely so heavily on students. Having a university in or near a city is a great economic boost, but don't let it take over the city's image. Also, in such a case, the many people who dislike the school based on rivalry will never consider moving there. This is just an opinion.

I do know that in some instances, the university obviously strong-armed the city into getting its way, like not allowing the Panthers to play at Williams-Brice their first season. But concerning a city not standing on its own two feet, I somewhat disagree with that concept because firstly, Columbia consists of more than USC, which is located downtown. Also, all cities have to have some economic generator in place, and for Columbia, USC happens to be one of them. It would almost be like saying that Myrtle Beach or Charleston can't stand on its own two feet because its primary economic generator is tourism. Well, tourism comprises the economic foundation of those cities, just like USC does for Columbia. The positive of it is that in a city the size of Columbia, you get a youthful vibe in an urban environment. Trust me, although USC has a very significant presence downtown, it doesn't really even show up on as many people's radars as you think it might.

[CorgiMatt]

Actually Skyliner, I agree with you. While Cola sure has some positives, one of the things that I dislike about it is the university's influence on everything throughout the city. Most cities that I have enjoyed are usually ones which have quality universities and educational opportunities, but the schools don't act as the cities' "center of the universe". And folks, this is coming from a USC grad school student!

Most of Cola's functions, facilities, and activities revolve around the university. I realize USC is very important to the city, but therein lies the problem. Most bars and restaurants in the DT area, including some in the Vista, cater to USC students and officials. To make a city a destination such as Charlotte or Atlanta, there needs to be a quality of life and business opportunities that exist outside of any major universities in the city. Cola has sorely needed to build that kind of reputation. Take, for instance, the baseball stadium. The city couldn't keep a minor league baseball team, but practically bowed to USC for a new baseball stadium near the river. They couldn't even try to get the university and a minor-league team to share the stadium.

Better a university to drive the economy and give a vibe than tourism.

[goodbye]

Skyliner, I have to disagree with you on this one. Medium sized cities with a major university are the PERFECT places to live in my opinion. That's why I love Columbia...it's why I like Baton Rouge, Austin, Knoxville, etc. And it's why I find Greenville kind of depressing. No true identity up there. Not really even a true downtown or skyline. USC is one of the things that makes Columbia great. It attracts academic types...students as well as faculty. Columbia gets much more national exposure because of USC. Carolina is routinely on TV nationally in football, basketball, etc. And USC being here is one reason that Columbia is much more of a progressive city that most places in this state. I love the atmosphere of college towns. I would quickly grow BORED living in such places as Greenville, Augusta, etc. Again, just my opinion.

That is a very biased point of view regarding Greenville. I don't expect you to like the city, but at least be educated in your opinions. What about the people and city officials all across the nation who look at downtown Greenville and comment that it is far more impressive than most large cities' downtowns? You only look through garnet glasses - not that it is bad, but you can't accurately comment on Greenville from such a POV. I can't understand how people can think so highly of one city and totally negatively toward another with equal attractiveness. Regardless of how you look at it, ALL of the state's major cities are taking off because people see them as beautiful and excellent places to live.

[goodbye]

...Trust me, although USC has a very significant presence downtown, it doesn't really even show up on as many people's radars as you think it might.

That is what residents in Knoxville say, but I see UT orange everywhere there.

[krazeeboi]

I visit the east Tennessee forum from time to time, and it doesn't really look like Knoxville is making a whole lot of noise. Many familiar with the city don't really describe it in the most positive of terms. I know of another forumer on another message board who is from Knoxville but went to USC who thinks that Columbia definitely has more going for it.

[BryCola]

That is a very biased point of view regarding Greenville. I don't expect you to like the city, but at least be educated in your opinions. What about the people and city officials all across the nation who look at downtown Greenville and comment that it is far more impressive than most large cities' downtowns? You only look through garnet glasses - not that it is bad, but you can't accurately comment on Greenville from such a POV. I can't understand how people can think so highly of one city and totally negatively toward another with equal attractiveness. Regardless of how you look at it, ALL of the state's major cities are taking off because people see them as beautiful and excellent places to live.

Well...as I used to date someone from Greenville, and spent a lot of time there, I HAVE educated myself on Greenville. And the opinion is the same. Boring town with not much to do. Has nothing to do with garnet glasses.

[goodbye]

Oh crap, someone should have informed me. I thought it was quite vibrant year-round here in Greenville. I guess it takes more than living somewhere a few decades to know what is going on. Or maybe I have it right and its been awhile since you actually spent much time in Greenville.

I simply tried to point out one of the things I personally dislike about Columbia (which is what this thread is about), but it turned into another anti-Greenville campaign from a Columbia resident. I guess the earth still revolves around the sun.

But I uphold everyone's right to an opinion.

[Temeteron]

Here we go arguments again, lol, Dont bother you guys, your argument over Greenville is just as useless as my arguments with several forumers over Charlotte.....people will just not change their mind about certain cities.............On a different note, I'd like to add that I dont like the style about Columbia, people rock entirely way too much 'palmetto gear' (which there is nothing wrong with that) but at least switch it up a bit.....and when guys wear those sunglasses with the stupid thing on the back of them i dont even know what they are called, so cheesy! And in the winter people wear rainbow sandals and shorts, WOW....God forbid Columbians wear a peacoat or scarf! That'll make them look like a :GASP: northerner!

[CorgiMatt]

I brought it up because it clearly appears to most people that USC is Columbia and Columbia is USC. I did not say that a university should have no effect on a city, but that it should not be the only focus of a decent-sized city, in my opinion. You have countless people loving and hating the city based simply on the Gamecock image in Columbia.

I graduated from USC and have lived in Columbia for 22 years. If USC is Columbia and vice versa, then why do I constantly see so many cursed Clemson Tiger license plates, T-shirts, sweat shirts, bumper stickers, flags and caps all over the damned place here? Are that many Upstaters visiting here all the time?

[krazeeboi]

Here we go arguments again, lol, Dont bother you guys, your argument over Greenville is just as useless as my arguments with several forumers over Charlotte.....people will just not change their mind about certain cities

Nor do they have to. Isn't living in America a beautiful thing?

On a related note, the Free Times' cover story this week is entitled "Work in Progress: Ten Ways Columbia Lags Behind". Some of these points don't actually represent ways in which the city "lags," but I believe that all of these points have been touched on in the Columbia subforum at one point or another.

The complaint about city streets is legit; I didn't know that 75% of the city's streets are maintained by SCDOT. That says a lot.

I don't think the "complaint" about sports is legit though. The Inferno may be leaving the municipality of Columbia, but for all practical purposes, it will still be in the vicinity of the city.

Blue Laws? We've touched on this before. Get rid of them.

I don't think I really get the complaint about music. I mean I do, but I don't.

Public transportation? Welcome to the South. At least the area is beginning to study the feasibility of commuter trains.

As for riverfront development, as it was pointed out to me when I observed that it should have taken off a long time ago, land along the river has been privately owned for decades now (Guignard family), which the article failed to point out. That has been the hold up.