What makes the Michigan forum so successful?

[MJLO]

It's so eerie how true that really is. Since I've been working in the airport. Ive run into people from Michigan constantly. Does kinda make me happy, while i'm away.

[davidals]

Here's a way outside take on the UP success of the Michigan forums.

My family is all from North Carolina, but my mother lived in Detroit in the late 50s-early 60s, and she still speaks fondly of it. More recently, I had a college roommate (late 80s) who grew up somewhere out in Oakland County, and his siblings stayed here in NC, but he went back. With both there was a real pride - some connected to history. And the rust-belt declines - everyone had heard the stories and stereotypes and even some objective commentary, but everyone is protective of places they love, but the folks I've met from Michigan were really aware of the virtues of the place, I think to a greater degree than a lot of people in general.

And - whatever Detroit has been through - it's one of the most historically important cities in the country; from industry and the economic benefits thereof, to it's impact upon popular culture, it's history is definitely the equal of any number cities on either coast.

[MJLO]

And - whatever Detroit has been through - it's one of the most historically important cities in the country; from industry and the economic benefits thereof, to it's impact upon popular culture, it's history is definitely the equal of any number cities on either coast.

Thanks for the kind words man, It seems all to often Detroit doesn't get the respect it deserves.

[GRDadof3]

Having left MI and lived all over the country you ALWAYS know you're at home when you've met somebody else from MI. You can always relate to the same things, miss the same things, reminice about the same things...Most people I've met from MI always have a desire somewhere deep down to go back 'home'. You just don't find that with many other places. I can name several places where people from there come in contact w/each other and you would think they are from different planets, let alone the same state/city. But MI...you always know when you've run into a fellow Michigander!

So move back. Problem fixed.

[wazootyman]

Maybe because people from Grand Rapids take pride in their city, and are therefore active posters? Maybe because people love downtown and are excited when new developments are announced? I don

[GRDadof3]

Here are population numbers for City of GR from 1960 - 2000

1960 197,193

1970 197,649

1980 181,843

1990 189,126

2000 197,800

2003(est) 195,601

2005 (est) 195,763

Total net loss over 45 years = about 1500 people

Metro Area Growth 1960 - 2000:

669,578 - 1,088,514 = +418,936 (+ 62%)

"Little" Grand Rapids Metro has also gained about 60,000 people since 2000.

Detroit City

1960 1,670,144

1970 1,511,482

1980 1,203,339

1990 1,027,194

2000 951,270

2004 (est) 900,188

Total loss over 45 years = -769,956 people

Metro area growth 1960 - 2000:

4,012,607 - 4,441,551 or +428,944 people (+11%)

CensusScope

So people in Detroit make fun of GR.

Are you guys done with the comparisons now?

I think everyone should stop worrying about what other people think, or how "proud" people in other cities are.

[wazootyman]

So people in Detroit make fun of GR.

Yes, it's a lame point, but it was to counter a lame argument. Just because people make fun of a place doesn't mean it's a lousy place.

With all of the statements that AMCFan1 made, I'm amazed that this is the item you criticize.

[GRDadof3]

Yes, it's a lame point, but it was to counter a lame argument. Just because people make fun of a place doesn't mean it's a lousy place.

With all of the statements that AMCFan1 made, I'm amazed that this is the item you criticize.

To be honest, I didn't read his/her post.

You're right. AMCFan1, enough with the city vs. city stuff.

The Michigan forum is successful because we're a great State period!

[RustTown]

GRdadof3, what was the point in posting the population losses and gains, and then calling quits/truce to the discussion? You obvioulsy wanted to get your dig in, and you did. Really kind of immature, if you ask me, and what continues to goad this argument on. If you think there is nothing to make fun of about GR, than you're dillusional. You're obviously worried about what other people think or you wouldn't have felt the need to post the numbers. It was so blatantly passively aggresive, it wasn't even funny. And it's those constant little jabs like that that make it no wonder why people would hold a bad opinion of residents of your fine city.

[monsoon]

You guys are taking away the "greatness" of the Michigan forum.

[BarGal]

...And, considering that metro Detroit has far more people (and potentially, far more posters) than Grand Rapids, you'd think that the Metro Detroit forum would have five times as many posts.

I think the reason that the Michigan forums have a lot of posts is because there are some interesting things happening, particularly in Grand Rapids...

I don't think you can count the success of the forum based on number of posts. Because, IMHO, there's a lot of chitt-chatty kind of posting that goes on...most of it not even related to city or state happenings. These would boost the number of posts up. (A lot of it may be people just trying to boost their own number of posts to up their individual status.)

I come here looking for content that I can use and to learn...and I'm content with what I find, although sometimes I do have to sift through some fluff to get to it.

Overall, I think the success of any forum depends upon the participants, their attitudes and cooperation, and it may not look like it in this thread but I'm finding that the Michiganders in this forum have great attitudes and have been very cooperative towards me.

[MJLO]

I agree bar gal, but one of the reasons this forum is successful is directly tied to the chitty chat. People are more devoted to this forum, because there is that sense of family.

[GRDadof3]

LMichigan, for your information, I only posted the numbers in direct response to this quote from wazootyman:

"The city of Grand Rapids has lost population according to all estimates I have seen, though granted it is a smaller number than the city of Detroit. Both metro regions have seen population growths. Metro Detroit has gained an estimated 66,788 people from 2000-2006 (per SEMCOG). I can't find the estimates for GR, Muskegon, etc. area, but I know there has been a decent amount of growth as well."

It's not a "smaller number" of population lost in the city of GR, it's not even in the same hemisphere. Fact: Detroit has lost half its population in 45 years, and only has marginally gained population in the Metro (11% in 45 years doesn't even cover inflation). Grand Rapids proper has lost a small "hamlet" of population (-1500), and it's Metro has almost doubled in that time period. Grand Rapids Metro has gained the same number of people from 2000 - 2005 as the entire Detroit Metro area. Guess what, if the rate continues as it's going, one does surpass the other. A train traveling 100 mph will pass a train going 50 mph, no matter how much of a head start it has.

Go ahead, defend that. You may be tired of the passive agressiveness, but I'm tired of the condescension.

[RustTown]

Defend what? To you, this is some kind of competition. To the rest of us, it's not, and your insistence to make it so is childish at best. The two cities are in different leagues and will be for the forseeable future. If you think numbers tell, alone, tell the story, or most of the story, than I can't indulge you any further in this little petty argument that you seem to want to pick. Perhaps you need to do what you do best and post on what you know, and not worry yourselves with the rest. To be quite honest, Southeast Michigan thinks much less often about West Michigan, than vice-versa. You've played this little passive-aggressive game before, and the only reason I'm responding is because it's getting old, and quickly, and you need to be called on this childish game. The fact is, this West vs. Southeast debate is soley perpetuated by the Westside based in some inferiority complex. Get over it, already. It's almost laughable how many times SE Michigan seems to be on Westsiders mind's with an almost unhealthy obsession with childish comparisons. You know what makes the Michigan forum successful? Well, it's certainly not the constant pitting of region against region. The average person doesn't appreciate the constant, base comparison against two regions that were never on the same level to begin with.

[BarGal]

I agree bar gal, but one of the reasons this forum is successful is directly tied to the chitty chat. People are more devoted to this forum, because there is that sense of family.

I don't necessarily think chit-chat's a bad thing; I just made the observation that it increases the number of posts which I don't feel is a sole measure of success.

I don't have a lot of time to weed through them all so I depend on the title of the thread to pull me into the discussion.

So, party on! I'll continue to read selectively that's all

[GRDadof3]

Defend what? To you, this is some kind of competition. To the rest of us, it's not, and your insistence to make it so is childish at best. The two cities are in different leagues and will be for the forseeable future. If you think numbers tell, alone, tell the story, or most of the story, than I can't indulge you any further in this little petty argument that you seem to want to pick. Perhaps you need to do what you do best and post on what you know, and not worry yourselves with the rest. To be quite honest, Southeast Michigan thinks much less often about West Michigan, than vice-versa. You've played this little passive-aggressive game before, and the only reason I'm responding is because it's getting old, and quickly, and you need to be called on this childish game.

Consider yourself warned for attacking a moderator. Next time you'll be suspended.

Adult enough for you?

Bargal, I totally agree. MOST of the Michigan forumers are great, and like Matt said, we're like one big happy (albeit a bit dysfunctional) family.

[wazootyman]

Consider yourself warned for attacking a moderator. Next time you'll be suspended.

Adult enough for you?

Adult enough? That's the equivalent of yelling do you know who I am?

I haven't been on this forum long, but I've seen this GR vs. Detroit pissing match on practically every city discussion forum I've been on. It truly does seem to start every time with somebody proposing that Detroit is dead, and Grand Rapids will rise to be the state superpower. You know, I don't agree with that for a second, but I can't deny I have a major bias as a lifelong metro Detroiter. Grand Rapids is seeing big developments. Detroit is seeing big developments. I realize we're all passionate about our respective cities, but why does it always have to be a competition?

[monsoon]

It doesn't have to be a competition. The very reason we are here at UrbanPlanet is to avoid the kind of discussions that lead to pissing matches. It is difficult to constantly police it however as charges of censorship, rules, etc always come with that. It helps greatly if the people that come here, including the staff, all remember that we are not here for boosterism, but to improve our communities and learn about others.

[GRDadof3]

Adult enough? That's the equivalent of yelling do you know who I am?

I haven't been on this forum long, but I've seen this GR vs. Detroit pissing match on practically every city discussion forum I've been on. It truly does seem to start every time with somebody proposing that Detroit is dead, and Grand Rapids will rise to be the state superpower. You know, I don't agree with that for a second, but I can't deny I have a major bias as a lifelong metro Detroiter. Grand Rapids is seeing big developments. Detroit is seeing big developments. I realize we're all passionate about our respective cities, but why does it always have to be a competition?

Regardless of your feelings one way or the other on the issue, personally attacking anyone on the forum (including staff) is not allowed.

I have an idea and this might solve it, at least here at UrbanPlanet. I'll police any comments, including my own, attacking anything about Detroit. At least the ones I catch. IF all the Detroiters here stop with the "Yeah, Grand Rapids is great, but Detroit was a world-class city, or was more historically significant ,etc..". Those statements are also "passive aggressive" and condescending and could easily be countered with a whole slew of rebuttals. In addition, since we now have over 100 active members in the Grand Rapids forum, it will be hard to stop any and all boosterism. If people are excited by all the activity (including the local media), why knock it. Very few people slip in an anti-Detroit comment in their posts.

Competition in and of itself is human nature, and not at all unhealthy or immature. My reasons for being a member here are to support, promote and learn more about Grand Rapids, and other areas of the country.

Peace

[MJLO]

I wonder though if something could be done, or if something even needs to be done to promote a little goodwill. It's kinda felt the last few days that This part of UP is headed for a melt down. People are taking Urban Planet a little to seriously if that's the case. It makes me sad that the people in this forum won't work together, be fans of Michigan and not just one part. Right now only widening the competitive divides. People are more than welcome to have opposing views. Diametrically at that. You are welcome to debate them. In a profesional manner. However as soon as people start calling names. Those discussions will be terminated. It is a privelege to post on Urban Planet, not a right.

[RustTown]

There is nothing wrong with competition, but this has gone far beyond that that just plain nasty boosterism, and the fact is that it's largely one-sided. Perhaps many West Michiganders need to take a look at the Detroit forum to just see how often West Michigan is actually mentioned...nearly never. On the other hand, I often visited the GR forum for updates for Emporis and the like, more as an outside observor than anything else, and largely tried to ignore all of the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) Detroit-bashing, who's name seems to always be on the tip of their tongues when discussing any large development. It's really turned into an immature pissing match, but one side refuses to compete, largely, with the other side desparate to goad the other to respond.

It recently seeped into this main forum, and in my opinion, that was the last straw. I really couldn't care less if every Grand Rapidian thinks there city is the best thing since sliced bread. You can have that opinion, but can't you guys keep it within your own forum, already? Is that really so much to ask? Really, it makes this forum much less enjoyable than it was when I first came over this way, and the problems are really starting to rear their ugly heads, here. There is a difference between being proud of ones city, and feeling the insatiable need to boost it beyond reality to the rest of the world.

[MJLO]

I am saying this unequivically.

Let it go. If you have frustrations with people individually take it up with them. The point was made along time ago.

If this conversation keeps going on with this tone, and people keep trying to get that last word,

posting priveleges will be revoked. This goes for anyone in any forum. This conversation is over

on the public forum.

[wolverine]

Thanks MJLO.

Guys, really, I'm getting sick of this...I'm talking to everyone. Can we all just chill? If someone has a problem, or wants to let off a ton of steam, please PM me. You can type anything you want to me, and don't worry I won't get offended. But please don't post it here. All of you have been wonderful contributors to this forum, and some of these people have unfortunately been lost because they made some stupid public statements. Again, if you are upset about something, please PM and I'll try to sort everything out.

Peace.