The Anti-NIMBY crew

[citygirl]

Not sure if this is the density catalog citygirl was talking about, but I attended this workshop at the Lincoln Land Institute about visualizing density. Here's a link to much of the materials they discussed ...

http://www.lincolninst.edu/subcenters/visu...sity/index.aspx

The quiz and image gallery are particularly useful.

Yep, that's the one! There are a variety of other visualization aids, and we should be using them to help people get a better handle on what's being proposed.

[Recchia]

Bishop Middle School [Projo.com]

Wow, talk about being over dramatic:

Although the latest plan seemed designed to mollify neighbors who worried that high school students would usher in a crime wave, not every East Sider was relieved.

"What part of 'Hell, no' don't you understand?" said Charles Strauss, a neighbor and Realtor. "The day I hear that high school students are moving in, I'm installing a full surveillance system, asking the city to reassess my house and researching how to split the East Side from the rest of Providence."

Those comments prompted three high school students to speak out against what they saw as the bigotry of false expectations.

"The labels put on us by the East Side community, it's clearly racism," said Shane Lee, a member of the districtwide student government. "This city needs all of us. We are the leaders of the future."

That's what it sounds like to me as well.

[runawayjim]

Bishop Middle School [Projo.com]

Wow, talk about being over dramatic:

That's what it sounds like to me as well.

why does it seem that the east siders think they're the only residents of providence that matter? i have to say, i think nimby-ism is at its worst over there... i guess the more you pay in property taxes the more important you are?

[runturtlerun]

Saturday's paper had a great letter from some south side residents:

http://www.projo.com/opinion/letters/conte...lu.bbd1a05.html

"There is no way we can be a true renaissance city without embracing all residents, and doing whatever is possible to ensure that all receive equal treatment and opportunity. There is much that the East Side could learn through a bona-fide cultural exchange with the much more diverse South Side. Then perhaps the East Side residents would learn not to fear individuals who they believe would "darken" their community."

[runawayjim]

Saturday's paper had a great letter from some south side residents:

http://www.projo.com/opinion/letters/conte...lu.bbd1a05.html

"There is no way we can be a true renaissance city without embracing all residents, and doing whatever is possible to ensure that all receive equal treatment and opportunity. There is much that the East Side could learn through a bona-fide cultural exchange with the much more diverse South Side. Then perhaps the East Side residents would learn not to fear individuals who they believe would "darken" their community."

NICE!

[citybuilder]

why does it seem that the east siders think they're the only residents of providence that matter? i have to say, i think nimby-ism is at its worst over there... i guess the more you pay in property taxes the more important you are?

There is no doubt that the reported comments by residents in the immediate neighborhood of Bishop Middle School are intolerant, narrow-minded, and entitled. However, to say that is how "east siders" feel is equally ridiculous.

Residents of Mount Hope put together a petition against the closing. Summit neighbors and MLK Elementary parents wrote emails to the administration and board. There were many more fine-grained expressions of concern and support from East Side residents who want a viable public school system for our kids, but those don't get reported by the Projo because they don't make good copy.

I have a lot of respect for Donnie Evans, but I think PPS administration seriously miscommunicated their plans for Bishop to the immediate neighbors, the parents, the teachers, or the surrounding communities. This was a decision process that affected many people, but made it so far without any communication or engagement. Its not surprising that its final revelation brings out the poles of opinion, rather than the reasonable voices that would have emerged if the process hadn't been rushed/railroaded.

[runawayjim]

There is no doubt that the reported comments by residents in the immediate neighborhood of Bishop Middle School are intolerant, narrow-minded, and entitled. However, to say that is how "east siders" feel is equally ridiculous.

my point was mainly that it seems most of the comments that come across this way seem to only come from the east side. i never meant to group all east siders together, that'd be really dumb on my part. but i get the feeling from comments i read on various boards on the internet that east siders feel there's 2 parts to providence, the east side and the rest of the city. and those comments make it sound like the people who live on the east side are more entitled than the people from the rest of the city. but by no means do i or have i ever mean to convey the idea that all east siders feel this way.

[jencoleslaw]

I think that the Journal loves to use the most incindiary of quotes in their articles. While the east siders may have spouted some inane things at that meeting, i suspect there were plenty of people there who said things like "we just want to know what is going on BEFORE it happens" or some such. But because those people's heads aren't on fire, the journal doesn't quote them.

[jencoleslaw]

oh, and also, any time you try to put a high school in Any Neighborhood, you will hear the same complaints that came from the "east siders." I heard it down in South Providence and I heard it at the old American Tourister sight. Those neighbors were able to use the environmental concerns to keep the schools from happening, but there was an awful lot of "we don't want THOSE high school kids in our neighborhoods."

[Garris]

I think that the Journal loves to use the most incindiary of quotes in their articles. While the east siders may have spouted some inane things at that meeting, i suspect there were plenty of people there who said things like "we just want to know what is going on BEFORE it happens" or some such. But because those people's heads aren't on fire, the journal doesn't quote them.

Absolutely. I know one of the parents trying to organize a campaign against the closing, and he was incensed at the quotes in the Projo... They actually all met before the meeting and said, in effect, "Listen, the Projo is going to be on the lookout for the most incendiary, un-PC quotes they can find, so everyone has to watch what they say reeeealy closely..." but he said there are always 2-3 people who don't get the message and they get quoted. Look at the person the Projo quoted who was anti-on-street parking last week... Same hysteria...

The points the anti-closing folks make are actually quite reasonable in my mind:

- They want a "Nathaniel Green Middle-School" East, with the same mix of advanced and mainstream academic programs. Right now, the current middle school there has no advanced programs.

- They feel that if they close the middle school, the PPS's don't have the resources to open a new school there from scratch, and that the current building will just stay unused and decay (quite likely, actually).

- They're angry that absolutely no one communicated with them or talked with them about this. East Siders keep hearing about how the PPS wants to increase the enrollment of East Side students in the PPS's, but dropping something like this in their laps without consultation (especially considering whispers that the high school that may open there may be of the "most troubled students") does not inspire confidence.

- They feel that this is yet another example of a PPS system that is just shooting from the hip, with no comprehensive, logical long term plan.

Of course, little of this makes the newpaper... And frankly, I know people how live near Hope High, and from their stories, I think concerns of property vandalism and occasional mayhem are not unfounded...

I don't care what socioeconomic group or color they are, kids tend treat neighborhoods they don't live in quite poorly...

- Garris

[gregw]

My wife is a teacher in the Providence Public Schools and knows people who work at Bishop. The overwhelming sentiment from these people who work there is that the school is a disgrace.

There is no discipline--the Principal has no control over the building. There are constant fights. It's not uncommon for students to threaten teachers.

The test scores are abyssmal and there has been no sign of improvement unlike other schools that have hit rock bottom and are now starting to rise again such as Oliver Hazard Perry MS, Hope, or Central.

I think Donnie Evans is right to close the school as it is in a state of free fall and as its enrollment is projected to be below 300 in a building designed to accommodate 800. The school needs to be totally redesigned and then reopened. It needs a fresh start; transforming it while keeping it open would make it harder to make necessary changes.

Having said that, Evans handled the situation very, very poorly and should have been far more communicative.

Worse still are some of the neighbors whose vitriolic statements about high school kids possibly going there were despicable and racist. These ugly sentiments that you have read about in the paper have also saturated the East Side in the form of anonymous flyers that inexcusably play on racial fears. A hateful minority of East Side residents made that part of Providence look very bad.

[kinematix]

While I admit that I haven't read much of this thread recently I feel compelled to offer a voice from the East Side. I've lived here for more than 20 years and I really don't think perceptions on either side (not implying there are only two) will ever change. In general, it seems folks on the East side think they pay for everything and get almost nothing, and those who live elsewhere in PVD think East siders should quit whining because they're rich and they get better services from the city, fire and police departments. Truthfully, I don't know how true any of this is- this is just a generalization I've come up with based on years of listening to people have this argument with eachother and it's not my own opinion. What I do know is that one section of town is financing the lion's share of the city's tax dollars. People in some parts of the East Side are paying more than 40,000 dollars in real estate taxes a year (and I know several who have sold their expensive homes because of this tax bill - and now own condos downtown ) The fact is that the City of Providence is incredibly dependent on the East Side residents for their budget AND the people who live here know that fact and are willing to play that card in their rhetoric. Are they (we) entitled to anything more becuase of this, absolutely not in my opinion. Our tax dollars should be spent in the places it's most needed. That said, don't be surprised to hear East siders put up a fight for the things they want- They'll do it till they pass out.

As far as this recent East Side school scandal goes, I confess I haven't followed the story very closely. I will say that there are surely people (hopefully a very small minority) of East Side residents who are opposed for racial reasons (sadly, I'd be shocked if there weren't ). A massive percentage of east side residents, however, are NIMBYs. Be it a new building cutting down on their "view" or a school in a quiet residential neighborhood, the people who live here don't take to well to change of any kind. I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell my neighbors that having more buildings downtown is a good thing for us (might even cut down on our taxes!)

One more thing, as someone who has lived in and around schools for most of my life, schools really can be a pain for those who live near them REGARDLESS of what race, ethnicity, and socioeconomic background

the students hail from. Face it, kids are kids and they will do dumb stuff like grafitti, petty theft, etc (esp. middle and high school kids) Frankly for me, schools like Moses Brown, Wheeler, and lincoln have been far more of a pain to live around than Hope High ever has. I don't mean to pit public against private schools but this is just my experience and I think it worth noting. For one, Hope High won't escort you off their property for having a catch on one of their playing fields like MB did to me last year. Hope High also doesn't cause traffic jams twice a day for an hour.

I don't know, I could probably ramble about this forever but the take home message is that while a pain sometimes, schools regardless of what type, provide far more to the greater good and well outweigh the pain. I'll continue to push this idea with my neighbors.

Thank you for letting me ramble,

Kinematix