Marketplace at Lake Boone Trail

[avery]

I wanted to post this new development because it is pretty close to where I live. I thought you guys might enjoy seeing it too.

Lake Boone Marketplace

There are signs up on the property already. This site sits halfway between the beltline and Rex Hospital.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Wow! Isn't this the same architect that is doing Crabtree Valley Mall?

[avery]

Wow! Isn't this the same architect that is doing Crabtree Valley Mall?

Yes, they did 510 Glenwood and Park Devereux as well. I like their work. Hopefully this will be a top notch place too.

[orulz]

This is a good location. It's very interesting, since placing retail on the ground level fronting the street is rare in Raleigh on roads that have this much traffic, particularly in a neighborhood like this. Clearly they're trying to attract foot traffic from Rex, given that they're 200 yards away from one of the main entrances to the hospital.

Oh, and it's right on the bus line, too (one of Raleigh's better-served bus lines to boot.)

I'd like to see more stuff built like this around Rex, and everywhere else in Raleigh.

[Eastwestrob]

This looks really sweet...it has a modern and old school look all at the same time. Looks like some high quality development

[Subway Scoundrel]

Yes, they did 510 Glenwood and Park Devereux as well. I like their work. Hopefully this will be a top notch place too.

I think the biggest play in this area in the next 10 years will be the Palm Apartments right inside the beltline. A large piece of property that the buildings are getting old. Would make for a large redo project of condos and such. Would be interesting due to hilly land.

[orulz]

I think the biggest play in this area in the next 10 years will be the Palm Apartments right inside the beltline. A large piece of property that the buildings are getting old. Would make for a large redo project of condos and such. Would be interesting due to hilly land.

Yes, that place is getting old. Let's not also forget House Creek Greenway, which will go right through the property. Any project on this lot would definitely have to be designed around the greenway.

One problem is that House Creek has been known to flood on occasion. I think there are some very restrictive culverts around the complex, and that's a large part of the problem. A redevelopment here would probably tear all the culverts up to remove the constrictions. If the city or NCDOT rebuilt the Lake Boone Trail culvert to be more like the new one on the Rocky Branch Greenway, not only would the constriction be removed, but the greenway could pass under the road as well. That would be neat.

[BoylanHghts]

I'm sorry, but what's so great about this? Other than the offices, it seems like a mini Briar Creek shopping center.

I think it will be a nice amenity for the folks who work in all of the medical complexes surrounding the development. It will probably be nice for the surrounding residents as well (except that most of them will have to cross a 5 lane road if they want to walk there). But it's still a car-centric development not unsimilar to the legions of other developments popping up around N. Raleigh, Briar Creek, Cary, South Pointe, Apex, etc.

I'm just not sure why anyone who frequents a website called "URBAN"planet would get excited about a SUBURBAN development.

Or maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Too many Guinness' will do that.

[orulz]

I'm sorry, but what's so great about this? Other than the offices, it seems like a mini Briar Creek shopping center.

Brier Creek put berms and parking lots between the street (Brier Creek Parkway) and the retail. This project (or at least Phase II of this project) does not.

If I'm reading the site plan correctly (where the bottom of the image is Lake Boone Trail), this project is being built to face the sidewalk along a major public street. It is within walking distance of a major employment center (Rex Hospital) and may get the ball rolling for urbanization and walkability in the area. It puts retail amenities within walking distance of the hospital.

Sure, it's not urban transit-oriented utopia. But it's definitely a step in the right direction.

[avery]

I'm sorry, but what's so great about this? Other than the offices, it seems like a mini Briar Creek shopping center.

I think it will be a nice amenity for the folks who work in all of the medical complexes surrounding the development. It will probably be nice for the surrounding residents as well (except that most of them will have to cross a 5 lane road if they want to walk there). But it's still a car-centric development not unsimilar to the legions of other developments popping up around N. Raleigh, Briar Creek, Cary, South Pointe, Apex, etc.

I'm just not sure why anyone who frequents a website called "URBAN"planet would get excited about a SUBURBAN development.

Or maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Too many Guinness' will do that.

It is far better than a strip center where its prominent feature, the parking lot, fronts the road. This area is no more suburban that Crabtree Valley or North Hills and there is always plenty of talk on this forum about these areas. Its proximity to the beltline and its locale in an already well-established area of Raleigh receives favoritism on my part than does any development along the I-540 ring. This type of development can spur additional mixed-use urban infill and REdevelopment within the city. New developments out at Brier Creek in undeveloped parcels of land is what I consider sprawl. I'm sure there is a fine line between the two and there are some disagreements regarding urbanism amongst everyone. This is just how I personally view the differences.

[thewhister]

I'm sorry, but what's so great about this? Other than the offices, it seems like a mini Briar Creek shopping center.

I think it will be a nice amenity for the folks who work in all of the medical complexes surrounding the development. It will probably be nice for the surrounding residents as well (except that most of them will have to cross a 5 lane road if they want to walk there). But it's still a car-centric development not unsimilar to the legions of other developments popping up around N. Raleigh, Briar Creek, Cary, South Pointe, Apex, etc.

I'm just not sure why anyone who frequents a website called "URBAN"planet would get excited about a SUBURBAN development.

Or maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Too many Guinness' will do that.

Yes. What is that fine line of doing infill in a suburban context and dealing with the car. It is a nice project for the area. The thing lacking is Residential? Where is it?

Also since it is on a transit line (probably CAT no. 4 that serves REX) what special design considerations are there for a bus transit line? Can there be a concession for parking required for the project? The current TOD is only geared towards the regional rail system. Seem like there should be one for bus service also.

IMO the requirements for the Downtown Overlay District should be uniform city wide....or some form of it. If infill development is encouraged then there should be special design considerations/concessions.

[avery]

IMO the requirements for the Downtown Overlay District should be uniform city wide....or some form of it. If infill development is encouraged then there should be special design considerations/concessions.

I agree. There needs to be some continuity amongst all of the small area plans, following a common fabric laid out in a city-wide plan. Maybe instead of a TTA develpment corridor, a bus route corridor could be explored on a possibly less intesive scale.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I'm sorry, but what's so great about this? Other than the offices, it seems like a mini Briar Creek shopping center.

I think it will be a nice amenity for the folks who work in all of the medical complexes surrounding the development. It will probably be nice for the surrounding residents as well (except that most of them will have to cross a 5 lane road if they want to walk there). But it's still a car-centric development not unsimilar to the legions of other developments popping up around N. Raleigh, Briar Creek, Cary, South Pointe, Apex, etc.

I'm just not sure why anyone who frequents a website called "URBAN"planet would get excited about a SUBURBAN development.

Or maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Too many Guinness' will do that.

Although I agree it is nothing special, I would think that the more urban areas for Raleigh like around the Hospital's does merit some conversation. If we only talk about DT, the talk would turn to all BS since DT is only so big.

I have been working my way through some bottles of wine I have had for a while so I know what you mean.

[BoylanHghts]

It is far better than a strip center where its prominent feature, the parking lot, fronts the road. This area is no more suburban that Crabtree Valley or North Hills and there is always plenty of talk on this forum about these areas. Its proximity to the beltline and its locale in an already well-established area of Raleigh receives favoritism on my part than does any development along the I-540 ring. This type of development can spur additional mixed-use urban infill and REdevelopment within the city. New developments out at Brier Creek in undeveloped parcels of land is what I consider sprawl. I'm sure there is a fine line between the two and there are some disagreements regarding urbanism amongst everyone. This is just how I personally view the differences.

Avery,

Sorry I brought the negative energy to your topic. It was not my intention and it was very uncool of me. I agree that this development is a move in the right direction regarding the parking in back and the buildings fronting the street. And you are right that this deserves praise as being an "infill" project as opposed to being built in undeveloped areas (ie Briar Creek). Like I said in my first post, I think it will be a positive addition for the surrounding workforce and residents.

I will say that my problem with projects like this (and Briar Creek, South Pointe, and maybe North Hills to a certain degree) is that they try to create an "urban" feel in a very suburban area. While it may have elements of urbanism, it is still suburban in nature (low density, large areas of surface parking, located along wide vehicular corridors, car-centric as opposed to pedestrians, single-use vs. multi-use, etc.) It's the masquarade that I find somewhat offensive and makes it harder for me to see the positive aspects.

That being said, it is certainly an improvement on the suburban development model and should be commended for that. I hope that future developments will do the same and hopefully more to contribute to the urban fabric.

[avery]

Avery,

Sorry I brought the negative energy to your topic. It was not my intention and it was very uncool of me. I agree that this development is a move in the right direction regarding the parking in back and the buildings fronting the street. And you are right that this deserves praise as being an "infill" project as opposed to being built in undeveloped areas (ie Briar Creek). Like I said in my first post, I think it will be a positive addition for the surrounding workforce and residents.

I will say that my problem with projects like this (and Briar Creek, South Pointe, and maybe North Hills to a certain degree) is that they try to create an "urban" feel in a very suburban area. While it may have elements of urbanism, it is still suburban in nature (low density, large areas of surface parking, located along wide vehicular corridors, car-centric as opposed to pedestrians, single-use vs. multi-use, etc.) It's the masquarade that I find somewhat offensive and makes it harder for me to see the positive aspects.

That being said, it is certainly an improvement on the suburban development model and should be commended for that. I hope that future developments will do the same and hopefully more to contribute to the urban fabric.

No problem bro. I like people expressing their viewpoints...it is a forum afterall. I hear what you are saying though. As far as infill is concerned, it has to start somewhere. Hopefully additional residential projects could help this type of development and it could have a multiplier effect of this type of development so it doesn't turn out to be a one time development for the area. I do know that there is already quite a bit of housing units within a 1/2 mile radius of this place though. It seems like an area ripe for redevelopment.

[Jones_]

Funny, despite the parking lots and such, the whole Lake Boone Shopping center seems to get a lot a foot traffic. There are a lot of aprtments and townhomes a walk away and bus service right to the front door. Lake Boone does not nearly the traffic load of say Capital Blvd. While this is not someplace I would choose to live, the dynamic almost reminds me of parts of Arlington VA. This new development looks to be trying to fit in with what already has kind of developed nearby, albeit unintentionally on the part of the City.

[orulz]

Yes. What is that fine line of doing infill The thing lacking is Residential? Where is it?

At the apartment complexes across the street and down the road; in the single family homes behind the project. Does every single parcel, no matter the size and no matter the location, need to have a residential component to qualify as "mixed use?" I don't think so. This neighborhood is very much designed to prioritize automobiles, but it is still "general mixed use" and fairly walkable on the merit of distances alone.

This is not by design, mind you, but that's just how it turned out. A lot of people live within walking distance of this project, even if walking isn't as pleasant as it could be. There are also a number of neighborhood services less than a quarter mile away (food lion, restaurants, etc.) If the same mix can be maintained, with densification and redevelopment on a more human scale (sort of like this project, in fact) it could result in a pretty neat district.

Lake Boone Trail is fairly busy, but it does not and never will see an overwhelming amount of traffic. In countries other than our own, I've seen roads that cary as much traffic as Capital Boulevard also be walkable, engaging commercial corridors at the same time. Plant some street trees and widen the sidewalks from 5 to 10 or 12 feet, and you'll be astonished how much more welcoming any street feels from a pedestrian's perspective. Not saying that's going to happen here... I'm just saying that traffic and walkability do not necessarily have to be mutually exclusive.

[ncwebguy]

There are a lot of apartments on the north side of Lake Boone in this area, and behind Lake Boone Shopping Center. There are a lot of houses east of 440, but I don't know if they'd make the walk to this "lifestyle center" or not. I think it would be neat if there were a floor or two of penthouse condos above the office floors for Rex doctors that want to be close to the hospital and have an urban lifestyle, but that doesn't seem to be part of the plan.

Lake Boone does not have to handle too much vehicle traffic, since the beltline, Blue Ridge/Duraleigh, and Wade handle all traffic in the area not specific to Lake Boone.