Rowe Hotel- Olds Manor

[GRDadof3]

The old Blue Cross/Blue Shield building off of Kraft was taken over by Rockford Construction. I can see that off-ramp being built to eventually put a postal center out there, but I don't get the BCBS connection. Lansing's "central" postal operations are way out on the outskirts of town, South of East Lansing.

[MJLO]

Even if in the coming years the Devos Family were finally able to secure The Main PO branch, the last thing they'd build is a Casino. It's against their mantra. It would be nice to see that entire block, alone with the press building revamped though. It'd be years off though. There's no way they could tear down the old Rowe, the HPC would never let it happen. Although we are talking about West Michigan's First family, and the HPC has looked the other way on other things they have torn down. But as it stands right now, the lot for Rowe, is to little to do anything concrete with the building, there's no room for parking near it. No room to expand, and as soon as you pull in behind it. It's beyond hideous. With nastiness that is the post office.

[tamias6]

I too highly doubt a Casino would be built in GR without a massive tidal wave of protests which would be the last thing the Devoses would ever want coming at them considering they have build a strong image in GR I would assume they would not want tarnished.

[Rizzo]

Does Devos belong to a Native-American tribe? Aren't gaming licenses only given to tribal entities?

[FilmMaker]

Does Devos belong to a Native-American tribe? Aren't gaming licenses only given to tribal entities?

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Of course, a jaded person could probably look deep under the surface of many Michigan casino pacts (especially in Detroit) and find non-tribal influencers in the mix.

(now more seriously): The Rowe was clearly a defensive move by local royalty to derail Blue Bridge Jack's Hotel on Vandenberg Plaza folly - especially given its chronological proximity to the announcement of the new Marriott. The underlying prophecy back then was that the Rowe could eventually become a smaller boutique hotel, perhaps even niched in at a service level above the new Marriott - hence creating a RDV three-hotel monopoly across all service levels that rendered Jack's already convoluted hotel plan meaningless.

Regardless, the local royalty is likely to continue throwing lots of money (more hotels, etc) at the new convention center they conned the City into financing into oblivion. Nearly every projection for that place said it would never make money... and every similarly sized city with a similar convention center has experienced the same (or worse) kind of budget deficits as the one here in GR. The only frail supporting argument in any of these cities is the faint hope of spin-off development around what is otherwise a very questionable expenditure of taxpayer dollars. As long as the royalty can "prop up" a perception of "success" around the conv center, they won't look like they sold the city a bill of goods.

Of course, even I will acknowledge some benefit of spin-off development around the conv center, but I am always left to wonder what other types of development we might have done with all the money that went into that place. It is difficult to clearly identify exactly what downtown development REALLY spun off of the conv center - versus what would have happened without it. And who's kidding who? that chunk of river front would have made a pretty spectacular park!

But alas, in the end the royalty finally got their rooftop heli-chopper pad!!!! Perhaps that is all that mattered.

[joeDowntown]

First, it would be a four hotel monopoly.

Second, I don't understand why the "royalty" would con the city into a new convention center when the GRCVB and every other organization associated with bringing people to our city said the Grand Center was inadequate. And then the "royalty" REALLY stuck it to the city by giving millions of dollars. The Marriott? We were suckered! The Arena? We were suckered. The Museum. Suckered again. Re-skinning the Plaza Towers and then taking a loss? Suckered again. Multiple improvements to downtown including renovated buildings, hospitals, a research institute, schools.

Man! We sure are a bunch of suckers. The "royalty" sure got us good!

Joe

[AlexPKeaton]

We don't need another park right on the riverfront right downtown. We need more density!

[sfloria]

We don't need another park right on the riverfront right downtown. We need more density!

I would say just the opposite. We have some pretty cool parks around the GR area but there really isn't a lot of park land downtown. Look at other cities that are able to balance density along with a large amount of park land. One of the big things I've thought about when looking for a condo downtown is where I'd take my dogs for a walk if they have to make a call to nature. I'm not sure the Post Office land would make the greatest location for a park, but I certainly think we could use more green space in downtown GR.

If anything is done with this property, I don't see why Rowe would have to be demolished. It was in use just a couple years ago, I don't think they could use the excuse that its beyond repair. The Pantlind and the Amway Grand are great examples of mixing a new project with an old building. Maybe that would be a better spot for an indoor water "park."

[AlexPKeaton]

We already have Ahnabawen Park, Rosa Parks Circle, and the 6th Street Bridge Park (if that's what it's called). We really need more infill to complete the urban space, not more open spaces. I think a park would be just awful at Fulton and Monroe as well. The corner needs a good streetwall.

[localtalent]

While it would NEVER happen, a high-quality hotel/casino redevelopment incorporating the riverfront/post office/Olds Manor would absolutely transform downtown into a regional destination.

Too bad the local climate won't allow it.

[GRDadof3]

While it would NEVER happen, a high-quality hotel/casino redevelopment incorporating the riverfront/post office/Olds Manor would absolutely transform downtown into a regional destination.

Too bad the local climate won't allow it.

Nah, I disagree. I keep seeing the "Detroit Casino Mega-Thread" and roll my eyes. That's what Detroit and Grand Rapids need, another "taxation for the mathematically challenged", especially as incomes are going down.

It would be cool though to see another version of the Amway Grand at this end of the convention center, like bookends. Put a modern tower on the river, connected to the Rowe. However, with a better transition area then the AGP has now, all bland concrete.

[Prankster]

However, with a better transition area then the AGP has now, all bland concrete.

What's wrong with fallout shelters?

[localtalent]

Nah, I disagree. I keep seeing the "Detroit Casino Mega-Thread" and roll my eyes. That's what Detroit and Grand Rapids need, another "taxation for the mathematically challenged", especially as incomes are going down.

It would be cool though to see another version of the Amway Grand at this end of the convention center, like bookends. Put a modern tower on the river, connected to the Rowe. However, with a better transition area then the AGP has now, all bland concrete.

Look at net economic impact, not just the "taxation for the mathematically challenged" element.

A property like Greektown which maintained a more upscale feel could work well.

But again....it will never happen, so I'll stop wasting my time trying to convince anyone.

[Greedo]

While it would NEVER happen, a high-quality hotel/casino redevelopment incorporating the riverfront/post office/Olds Manor would absolutely transform downtown into a regional destination.

Totally!! Why fly all the way out to Vegas when you can just go to DT GR. Because everyone knows the only place to gamble is Vegas.

Well, and Detroit, that is...

...and um Mt. Pleasant, Michigan City, East Chicago and Hammond.

Oh yeah, and soon Wayland!

Hmm... maybe a downtown casino would distinguish GR from every other region in the country.

</sarcasm>

[MJLO]

I think the problem with that theory, it used to be that Vegas and Atlantic city were pretty much the only two places that you could go to the "mega casinos" But now they are everywhere. I don't think it would make downtown that special, might make downtown kind of like a whore. With Casinos everywhere I think we'd be better off finding something more unique anyway.

EDIT: haha I just read Localtalents sentiments right above my own.

[sparky05]

Noticed this on my lunchtime walk today, on the west side of the building facing the post office:

Does anyone have a floorplan for this building? I wonder what room those windows are in? Man, I hope this place gets redeveloped someday soon. It could be a gem...

[Allison Slater]

Wow I've never notised that before.. those windows could look really nice if cleaned up.

[FilmMaker]

I believe the stained glass windows are part of a small chapel for residents of the manor - which was a retirement home. I've never seen the interior so can't confirm any architectural features or value therein.

As delightful as those windows are, I think it is safe to assume that this bldg will remain empty until a) the soap magnates decide they need another high-end boutique hotel or b) the post office moves and the soap magnates orchestrate an even grander scheme for those parcels combined. I remain convinced that they bought Olds to derail Jack's fantasy for Vandenberg Plaza - and to secure a prime parcel for what might become yet another monument to themselves financed mostly on the backs of local taxpayers (as in the convention center and performance halls that continue to lose money).

Good news is that they're about to get their rooftop helicopter pad - so at least we won't see a platform on top of Rowe/Olds manor.

[chgrnative]

I believe the stained glass windows are part of a small chapel for residents of the manor - which was a retirement home. I've never seen the interior so can't confirm any architectural features or value therein.

As delightful as those windows are, I think it is safe to assume that this bldg will remain empty until a) the soap magnates decide they need another high-end boutique hotel or b) the post office moves and the soap magnates orchestrate an even grander scheme for those parcels combined. I remain convinced that they bought Olds to derail Jack's fantasy for Vandenberg Plaza - and to secure a prime parcel for what might become yet another monument to themselves financed mostly on the backs of local taxpayers (as in the convention center and performance halls that continue to lose money).

Good news is that they're about to get their rooftop helicopter pad - so at least we won't see a platform on top of Rowe/Olds manor.

zing!

[suydam]

I believe the stained glass windows are part of a small chapel for residents of the manor - which was a retirement home. I've never seen the interior so can't confirm any architectural features or value therein.

As delightful as those windows are, I think it is safe to assume that this bldg will remain empty until a) the soap magnates decide they need another high-end boutique hotel or b) the post office moves and the soap magnates orchestrate an even grander scheme for those parcels combined. I remain convinced that they bought Olds to derail Jack's fantasy for Vandenberg Plaza - and to secure a prime parcel for what might become yet another monument to themselves financed mostly on the backs of local taxpayers (as in the convention center and performance halls that continue to lose money).

Good news is that they're about to get their rooftop helicopter pad - so at least we won't see a platform on top of Rowe/Olds manor.

<sarcasm>

Those darn soap magnates.

All they've done is revitalize a previously dormant downtown, bring people into said downtown (hotel, convention center) to spend money at businesses not owned by those pesky soap magnates, and while they're at it, they have the gall to make donations large enough to initiate construction of a massive children's hospital (from which we'll all benefit) right downtown too.

Darn soap magnates.

</sarcasm>

[sparky05]

<sarcasm>

Those darn soap magnates.

All they've done is revitalize a previously dormant downtown, bring people into said downtown (hotel, convention center) to spend money at businesses not owned by those pesky soap magnates, and while they're at it, they have the gall to make donations large enough to initiate construction of a massive children's hospital (from which we'll all benefit) right downtown too.

Darn soap magnates.

</sarcasm>

Yeah, it's a real shame that our town is afflicted with generous wealthy citizens. Too bad they don't just keep their money to themselves.

[joeDowntown]

Nice one Sparky! I agree.

Does anyone here have any knowledge of the work that has been done on the building so far?

I have two questions:

1) Why did they start building external staircases and then stop? Did they start "more serious" work on the building and then stop for some reason

2) I drove by one weekend a couple of years ago when they were taking down the "overhang" under the front entrance. It was this nasty white box with Old's Manor (in plastic letters) on it. But underneath was a beautiful, ornate metal overhang that had the Rowe Hotel written on it. Does anyone know if they put it in storage for future use? I hope they didn't trash it!

Joe

Yeah, it's a real shame that our town is afflicted with generous wealthy citizens. Too bad they don't just keep their money to themselves.

[GR8scott]

The back side of that building is very interesting, but imo the only thing that would make it look good is to rebring like the front and add more windows or to cover it up with a large building to replace the post office. Cleaning up some small stained glass windows wouldn't do anything for the rest of the building

[mpchicago]

2) I drove by one weekend a couple of years ago when they were taking down the "overhang" under the front entrance. It was this nasty white box with Old's Manor (in plastic letters) on it. But underneath was a beautiful, ornate metal overhang that had the Rowe Hotel written on it. Does anyone know if they put it in storage for future use? I hope they didn't trash it!

Joe

I love it when things like that are rediscovered. I sure as hell hope they saved it.

[FilmMaker]

<sarcasm>

Those darn soap magnates.

All they've done is revitalize a previously dormant downtown, bring people into said downtown (hotel, convention center) to spend money at businesses not owned by those pesky soap magnates, and while they're at it, they have the gall to make donations large enough to initiate construction of a massive children's hospital (from which we'll all benefit) right downtown too.

Darn soap magnates.

</sarcasm>

Alas, there was a touch of sarcasm in my original note as well... but...

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate their efforts to create an expanding healthcare capability in west Michigan - but don't be so gullible as to think there isn't a strong link between health hill and their own business interests. A vast majority of our local residents don't realize that they are no longer a soap company, but are instead one of the very largest health and nutrition companies on the globe. Their role as a major stakeholder in the medical and research presence here is a heavily implied component of their marketing efforts. They bring plane loads of foreigners into town to tour the area every week. To a visitor, the connection is very clear. But in the end... I do appreciate the ancillary healthcare benefit to the community.

As for the convention center and arena, it was widely known by many people from the very start that similar convention centers of this scale that had been recently built in similarly sized cities were all proving to be a massive drain of local tax dollars. I regularly work in these kinds of facilities all over north america and can tell you first hand that these "investments" are all bleeding money profusely. And they are all competing for a stagnant or even shrinking number of events and conventions. Of course, the sales pitch was that it would throw off all kinds of economic benefit - and while a proliferation of eateries and bars creates that perception - the reality is that these do not generate the scale of tax revenue necessary to off-set the original investment and subsequent upkeep. Furthermore, it can easily be argued that this was an unreasonably large investment to simply create a few hundred entry-level service jobs (cooks, waiters, dishwashers, bartenders, etc). A far greater success story would be the establishment of even just one major corporate employer or headquarters downtown where a far greater number of full-time, salaried workers would enjoy the full benefits of above-service-worker wages - - and the city would reap far greater and more stable tax revenue.

While I do not agree with yet another theory that these facilities were built to simply house the sports teams and annual conventions of the donors - one can easily see the benefit here as well. It has been widely publicized that dozens of other cities have been held hostage under the threat of losing their major sports teams unless taxpayers finance fancy new sports facilities for them.

Truth is, I would argue that the core has actually benefitted as much or more from the investments of people like Second Story and others who have embraced architectural rehabilitation and downtown residential as a mantra. It is these residents, in my humble opinion, who have truly been driving the re-birth of downtown. Some may argue that the arena and conv center sparked these other efforts - but the reality is that this downtown residential and student population growth has been predicted for decades without factoring the arena or conv center.

The bottom line to my admittedly sarcastic note above is this: if these entertainment and convention facilities were truly worth what the taxpayers were told they would be worth - the taxpayers would not not have been required to finance the deals (and the deficits) for decades. That leaves a very sour taste in my mind when I think of all the other critical issues that could be addressed with taxpayer money (like transit, water quality and employment to name a few).

From yet another angle that will resonate with many here at UP: while Pill Hill can be perceived as a magnificent benevolent gesture for the community benefit - why then are these same benefactors so adamantly opposed to helping fund solutions for the parking and transit crisis these very buildings are creating? 15,000 additional workers on Michigan hill are never going to fit in the 2,000 spaces currently being built there. The ITP has approached them repeatedly to help address these very concerns - and they have been flatly turned away - leaving taxpayers once again to finance the cure (transit or whatever that solution might be). They even had the (to use your term) "gall" to design buildings with no consideration for or ability to accommodate mass transit now or in the future. It is exactly this kind of "selective" philanthropy that causes me to feel a bit less "thankful" for the "gifts".

Lest anyone think I am totally jaded, I do think their support of GVSU and many other cultural facets of our community are a truly wonderful thing - and I feel these have had an equal and perhaps even more purely positive impact on downtown.

And finally... while their names grace the sides of most of these monuments, there are literally pages and pages of local names in smaller print that have contributed smaller amounts that collectively constitute an arguably equal pile of philanthropic investment in these buildings and cultural institutions. I just wish these major "gifts" didn't always come with conditions that require ALL taxpayers to involuntarily contribute by having to carry the ultimate responsibility long term.