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Rowe Hotel- Olds Manor


ericdriver

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Chris Knape has a few updates on this site. He had the chance to talk with its owner Dick DeVos this past week. The complete link is here: Chris Knape Blog. Here are some excerts from the post:

"The million-dollar question: Does he have any plans for it?"

"His answer (dramatic drum roll please): No."

"
He went on to say he understands some people view it as a historic structure, but it's no Pantlind. As time goes by, the likelihood of restoring it becomes more and more remote, he said
."

"DeVos said the spot could be another hotel. It could be condos. But don't look for anything to happen there any time soon."

"As DeVos noted the location gets better every day since it's one of the closest places for a new development to Michigan Hill."

Looks like we might have to wait a little longer for something to happen here. Maybe the Post Office will move and something large enought to fill the entire corner will be developed.

Read: The old Rowe Hotel will be torn down.

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If it gets torn down, which I think would be a shame, I have my eye on some building "artifacts"! What they need do is move the post office somewhere else, demo that dump and put something there that would complement a renovated Rowe. The Rowe could have main floor retail with floor to ceiling windows...it would be a great gateway to the Monroe North area. There's sooo much potential on that corner!

I want to see retail windows like this (RIP Marshall Fields):

20050825120132887_1.jpg

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This is a bummer. That corner is so...blah...with the PO, Rowe, GR Press, and massive wall. It's so close to the convention center too. As somebody who is constantly concerned with a visitor's impression of our city, the potential perception that a convention-goer will have concerns me most.

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This is a bummer. That corner is so...blah...with the PO, Rowe, GR Press, and massive wall. It's so close to the convention center too. As somebody who is constantly concerned with a visitor's impression of our city, the potential perception that a convention-goer will have concerns me most.

Imagine if/when the new hotel gets built at Monroe and Newberry, what the walk to the convention center will feel like for people staying at that hotel and new to the area. Not bad until you get past Trowbridge. :sick: Of course we locals know that area is pretty safe, but not necessarily to someone unfamiliar with the area. A streetcar system would do wonders in that regard.

That would be a tragedy if the Rowe got torn down just because it's not at the same caliber as the Pantlind

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That would be a tragedy if the Rowe got torn down just because it's not at the same caliber as the Pantlind

GRDadof3, in what thread did you recently post pictures of new buildings that incorporated older structures on the lower floors?

I'd love to see the Rowe (combined with the post office property) used in this manner.

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GRDadof3, in what thread did you recently post pictures of new buildings that incorporated older structures on the lower floors?

I'd love to see the Rowe (combined with the post office property) used in this manner.

HERE and HERE.

This was another one undergoing renovation (looking Southwest):

1249874958_c9ba5ddd4e_b.jpg

And what it will look like when finished (looking Northwest):

00002362.jpg

I didn't see this project, but it houses the International Spy Museum. This seems to be a real trademark for reuse in D.C., which is incredible.

restoration1L.jpg

Davis Construction seems to be the contractor on a lot of them

Here's a nice barrel vaulted roof. :shades: It's one of my favorites.

1250054936_3d11d0052b_b.jpg

Makes me ponder what they build above the low-rise buildings along Monroe Center (Ledyard), or along South Division.

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GRDadof3, in what thread did you recently post pictures of new buildings that incorporated older structures on the lower floors?

I'd love to see the Rowe (combined with the post office property) used in this manner.

Is there not a primo example just one long block south, facing the old Pantlind's north side? Seems like DeVos was involved with that.

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While DeVos and his family have done a lot for GR, he is doing us no favors this time. Perpetuating urban blight for possibly many years and tearing down a beautiful, historic building that other cities would treasure show a crack in his philanthropic facade.

Did he also do a dis-service when they took down the Isreal's building for the new JW? Has anyone actually been inside this building? The article mentions it had aspestos and water damage etc. While the outside looks like it could be redone, is the inside rotting out? It is easy for us to say how things should be or could be, but we are not the ones that actually put up the dollars for it. Yes there are families that have considerable wealth in the area, but they didn't get their money by making poor business decisions.

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Did he also do a dis-service when they took down the Isreal's building for the new JW? Has anyone actually been inside this building? The article mentions it had aspestos and water damage etc. While the outside looks like it could be redone, is the inside rotting out? It is easy for us to say how things should be or could be, but we are not the ones that actually put up the dollars for it. Yes there are families that have considerable wealth in the area, but they didn't get their money by making poor business decisions.

That's exactly what the Detroit shyster apologists said after they tore down their what, 5th or 6th historic building this past year? According to Chris' blog, it sounds like all the asbestos has been removed. I understand with the post office still there there's not really much they can do. Let's just hope they are not allowing "demolition by neglect" of the Rowe now.

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For what we got on Pearl, yes, tearing down Israel's was a disservice. If the JW had ground floor retail or something interesting it might have been worth it. I like the little pocket-park there, but I'd gladly trade it for storefronts. The JW as a whole might still make tearing down Israel's worth it, but it still could have been done better.

I can't speak to the condition of the Rowe, but wasn't it occupied when he purchased it? Was the building in that bad of shape while occupied? I'm sure it wasn't great, but I would hope that it wasn't leaking at least. I suspect the real problem with the building is the lack of parking and the lack of available adjacent land (read: Post Office, Grand Rapids Press) to build parking. New construction could easily include parking.

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I should also add that many of the renovations you see in D.C. were "facadectomies", where the interior was gutted or torn down and the facade preserved to keep the traditional scale and feel of the historic streetscapes. On one project, I read that the facade was suspended in mid-air for almost a year during reconstruction. In those cases, the interior condition was not applicable because it was being reconstructed anyway. It's a way to go a step above and beyond status quo to make a truly spectacular project (all of them have won numerous awards). I'll go out on a limb and say that the interior of the Rowe is in better shape than these buildings. Actually, if you look closely at the picture, you can see the center buildings are being held in mid air:

1249874958_c9ba5ddd4e_b.jpg

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That's exactly what the Detroit shyster apologists said after they tore down their what, 5th or 6th historic building this past year? According to Chris' blog, it sounds like all the asbestos has been removed. I understand with the post office still there there's not really much they can do. Let's just hope they are not allowing "demolition by neglect" of the Rowe now.

I am afriad that "demolition by neglect" is exactly what they are doing. If they don't want to renovate it, sell the building to someone who will. Stop holding the city hostage for years and years.

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I am afriad that "demolition by neglect" is exactly what they are doing. If they don't want to renovate it, sell the building to someone who will. Stop holding the city hostage for years and years.

What if there isn't any developer that is willing to pay what it would take to restore it? I am not saying that I would want it torn down either, but I wouldn't want to invest millions to have a vacant building either. There has to be interested parties in the site for whatever (retail/hotel/condos/apartments etc) before someone will invest millions (in my opinion).

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Really other than renovating the existing Olds Manor into what ever Devos decides it should be. I really don't see what can be done with that place mainly because its landlocked by the hideous monster a.k.a the post office. I suppose one could demolish the building and replace it with something taller. But look at all three of GR's towers. They all have large foot prints. The Amway Grand has the Pitland Hotel as its east wing and the Cream and gold colored building on its north flank as part of its complex. The JW Marriott has a massive ball room taking up over half a city block. Plaza Towers is just plain huge. So it would be likely that a tower in place of the Olds Mannor would need auxiliary buildings that would make for a foot print too large to fit on the land Olds Manner sits on.

One could tear down the post office (something I would give eye teeth to see happen) to free up space to add on to the Old Manor or to build a larger all new structure. But if I remember correctly, the Post Office has put a hold on building new post offices a couple of years ago due to budget constraints. So sadly the world's ugliest post office will be an eyesore in our otherwise beautiful city for the foreseeable future. So the gleeful satisfaction of swinging a wrecking ball into the post office building is an unfortunate "no can do".

I do like Grdad's mention of a "facadectomy". But how expensive would it be to pull something like that off? Olds Manor may be no Pitland Hotel. But its facade is still enormous and encompasses two sides of the building. Plus the demolition of the existing structure and building a new one behind the facade sounds like a laborious process and thus may be very costly. From Devos's comment of the building becoming less viable as time goes along says that he is not going to invest any further money that he has to into the upkeep of the building. In fact I would not be the least bit surprised that anything he may do with Old Manor will be first accomplished with the wrecking ball, some skid steers, and a fleet of dump trucks.

Something will happen to that property. That I think we can all bank on. Its just a matter of Devos waiting for the right opportunity and the right moment to make his move. But, I don't think Olds Manor is going to be a part of what ever he does with the property. At least that the way I see this.

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there are families that have considerable wealth in the area, but they didn't get their money by making poor business decisions.

Time out. Let's be honest, other than the original Rich and Jay show, the next branches of the family tree got their money via fortunate birth and nepotism. Not that there's anything wrong with this, it happens all the time (hello Donald Jr. and Ivanka Trump) but come on, I mean the life of Dick Devos ain't no Horatio Alger story.

Jay and Rich did/have done a lot for the city over the years. And now, Dave Van Andel's efforts at VAI are admirable. However, do you remember back during the campaign for governer? Dick ran those ads that almost seemed to imply that he was single-handedly responsible for the rebirth of downtown Grand Rapids. How ironic that in this case, he is responsible for the ongoing blight on one of downtown's most high profile corners. Thanks Dick! :good:

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With all the other recent developments around town there certainly was a market to redevelop this building. Perhaps now that some of those other projects have come to fruition there is less demand for another one, but DeVos certainly had the opportunity to do something with this building. I'm also pretty sure he has the capital to do whatever he wants with the building. No, he probably wouldn't do something unprofitable, but I'm just saying financing would not be an issue with him. So again, I think the big holdup is parking.

Yes, there is plenty of parking downtown, but we're lazy and won't walk more than a block or cross any streets. If this building were to become condos you'd definitely want parking on-site. Perhaps an office building could work with less adjacent parking, but the market for office space is pretty weak right now.

So, what's the story with the post office again? Was it lack funds or some weird regulation keeping them from moving? Would DeVos have to build a new post office for them in order to get them to move?

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Time out. Let's be honest, other than the original Rich and Jay show, the next branches of the family tree got their money via fortunate birth and nepotism. Not that there's anything wrong with this, it happens all the time (hello Donald Jr. and Ivanka Trump) but come on, I mean the life of Dick Devos ain't no Horatio Alger story.

Jay and Rich did/have done a lot for the city over the years. And now, Dave Van Andel's efforts at VAI are admirable. However, do you remember back during the campaign for governer? Dick ran those ads that almost seemed to imply that he was single-handedly responsible for the rebirth of downtown Grand Rapids. How ironic that in this case, he is responsible for the ongoing blight on one of downtown's most high profile corners. Thanks Dick! :good:

I understand that he received at lot of his money but that doesn't mean I expect him to make poor buisness decisions. I wouldn't expect any of you or myself to make any general poor business decisions.

My point is that if Dick or any developer in my opinion will not do a project if there isn't some gain for themselves. If a developement comes along that warrents the reuse of the building and the new tenants are willing pay for the rehad than I am sure it would be done. If a developer comes along and wants to use the property, but it will cost an additional $10Million to reuse the building, who will pay for that? Will he/she raise the rents of the end user? Is it expected to come out the developers end profit?

I am not trying to start a fight over this, I am just askign that sometimes you put yourself in the developer's shoes and ask how much are you willing to spend/risk on a developement.

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So, what's the story with the post office again? Was it lack funds or some weird regulation keeping them from moving? Would DeVos have to build a new post office for them in order to get them to move?

I think the hold up has something to due with the federal government. We talked a little about it this spring on post #119 and #120.

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I understand that he received at lot of his money but that doesn't mean I expect him to make poor buisness decisions. I wouldn't expect any of you or myself to make any general poor business decisions.

My point is that if Dick or any developer in my opinion will not do a project if there isn't some gain for themselves. If a developement comes along that warrents the reuse of the building and the new tenants are willing pay for the rehad than I am sure it would be done. If a developer comes along and wants to use the property, but it will cost an additional $10Million to reuse the building, who will pay for that? Will he/she raise the rents of the end user? Is it expected to come out the developers end profit?

I am not trying to start a fight over this, I am just askign that sometimes you put yourself in the developer's shoes and ask how much are you willing to spend/risk on a developement.

Sometimes businesses and developers should make decisions that yes, do eat into profit, but it's the "right" thing to do. If profit is the only motivator, everyone loses. It's just the way it is.

Just imagine the Amway Grand Plaza if the Pantlind had not been saved, and that ugly concrete bunker in the newer section were extended to the Pearl and Monroe corner. Imagine the difference in how downtown Grand Rapids would look and feel on its busiest corner. It'd be horrible. I'm sure saving the Pantlind and the Exhibitors buildings were more expensive, but they are built in a way that just cannot be reproduced. Rich and Jay seemed to understand that mentality, which seems to have been lost over the years.

The only reason the Rowe hasn't been torn down yet is that it still would not marketable as an empty lot. It's too small of a footprint to do anything with.

Is it possible to apply for historical status on a building that you do not own?

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I may be a bit naive, but with no room to grow, and a hideous view out of the back. The closest parking being under the interstate, this buidling just has not value, as it sits right now to do anything with. Sure everyone here would walk to a condo in it, but would everyone here buy a condo just to keep it going ? It's simply to inconvenient. The government is the bad guy here, for in the 60's tearing down history and replacing it with big ugly modernist boxes everywhere that cant be torn down, and replaced with something more interesting.

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Sometimes businesses and developers should make decisions that yes, do eat into profit, but it's the "right" thing to do. If profit is the only motivator, everyone loses. It's just the way it is.

Just imagine the Amway Grand Plaza if the Pantlind had not been saved, and that ugly concrete bunker in the newer section were extended to the Pearl and Monroe corner. Imagine the difference in how downtown Grand Rapids would look and feel on its busiest corner. It'd be horrible. I'm sure saving the Pantlind and the Exhibitors buildings were more expensive, but they are built in a way that just cannot be reproduced. Rich and Jay seemed to understand that mentality, which seems to have been lost over the years.

The only reason the Rowe hasn't been torn down yet is that it still would not marketable as an empty lot. It's too small of a footprint to do anything with.

Is it possible to apply for historical status on a building that you do not own?

So here's the plan, Dick purchases that eyesore on the west side of 131 with the cell phone tower on the roof, gets some redevelopment tax credits and creates a beautiful new headquarters building which he leases to the GR Press at a fair price. Then, he purchases their former headquarters and flattens that ugly POS as quickly as humanly possible. From there, he can build a parking garage (with skywalk :P ) for his new hotel, the Rowe Doubletree at Devos Plaza. That would save two downtown vacant buildings, improve the downtown environment and make him a hero in my book. Remember what Spider Man's grandfather said, "with great power comes great responsibility." Onward and upward Grand Rapids!!!

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Sometimes businesses and developers should make decisions that yes, do eat into profit, but it's the "right" thing to do. If profit is the only motivator, everyone loses. It's just the way it is.

So you are saying that there are developers that would go into a developement knowing that they will not make a profit, just for the sake of saving a building?

I understand if you have developement in which you might make $10Million and it costs $5Million to save the building than yes maybe you should save the building and only make $5Million instead of the possible $10Million.

If you had a developement that would only make you profit of $3Million and it would cost $5Million to restore, would you expect the developer to front the extra $2Million and make no profit?

This also goes back to the fact that if you don't have any interested parties in the site what chances do you take to rebuild it? Do you make it condos when there are several already started sites in the downtown area? Do you make it aparments or retail store fronts when there maybe vacancies already around town? All these choices may change the way you rebuild the inside of the building and what it would be used for.

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