Rowe Hotel- Olds Manor

[Rizzo]

Demolishes it .... moves the post office .... combines properties .... voila, another single use project on the river.

I hope that in the future things change. The people of Grand Rapids demonstrated that the Grand River is their asset, yet its become something of a land value mechanism.

[torgo]

There is a lot of talk here about moving the post office. Is that something that has ever been discussed? Obviously, everyone here would all like to see it replaced with something better, but is that a realistic assumption when talking about the future of the Rowe? For all I know, the feds might think that the "world's ugliest post office" is just fine and dandy. That place isn't going anywhere just because its an eyesore.

Are there state/federal/local funds available to a developer who wants to rehab a historic property? Does this building have any kind of "official" historic status or designation?

[twoshort]

There is a lot of talk here about moving the post office. Is that something that has ever been discussed? Obviously, everyone here would all like to see it replaced with something better, but is that a realistic assumption when talking about the future of the Rowe? For all I know, the feds might think that the "world's ugliest post office" is just fine and dandy. That place isn't going anywhere just because its an eyesore.

Are there state/federal/local funds available to a developer who wants to rehab a historic property? Does this building have any kind of "official" historic status or designation?

The last time it was discussed it was expressed that there is some sort of moratorium on building new post offices, or relocating them, or something. Either way the jist was that it wasn't going to happen any time soon. No idea who said it or if it was credible.

[grrwymg]

The last time it was discussed it was expressed that there is some sort of moratorium on building new post offices, or relocating them, or something. Either way the jist was that it wasn't going to happen any time soon. No idea who said it or if it was credible.

I heard the same thing about new POs not being built. It would make sense, however to have the "main" PO be out by the airport, whilst leaving a branch somewhere DT. (Ideally, not in the current spot).

[tamias6]

With a holt on new and relocated post offices I don't see the Post office going away anytime soon. However that land, it and Olds Manor sit on, has surely become more and more valuable by the second and will only become more so as the positive effects of Health Hill, Devos Place, and other developments take hold. Also if the proposed Monroe Ave. streetcar line becomes a reality that slab of real estate's value is bound to shoot into the stratosphere. But the thing is IMO that land is useless while the post office is still there hogging it all up. The land would only attain its true value if the post office was completely razed freeing entire block to be utilized by a powerful developer. [speculation] That said, maybe Devos could be in the mist of pulling strings to somehow apply enough pressure to dislodge the post office so he can be free to do what he wishes with that entire block and is not willing to divulge such plans until he is ready to get the ball rolling. [/speculation]

[dragt]

This building is what, a block and a half from the new med school and a short walk to half a dozen other edu's... why not turn it into student apartments? Finish levels would be less and parking needs dramatically decrease (students seem to have a easier time parking their car a couple of blocks away or better yet going with out). This doesn't even have to be a long term solution. Just do what's necessary to make the places comfy and affordable. Dick shouldn't be able to get away with letting a place rot (demo by neglect) so he ought to be making the necessary repairs to exterior anyways...

CHEAP STUDENT APARTMENTS!!! Somebody get John Green on the line and we'll organize a march on RDV!

And please don't tell me the only option for this building is for a bazzillionare to sit on it with his thumbs up his... umm... well... you know where. They've done a lot right in this town but this time he's just wrong. He bought the building as a prospector and is just waiting for it to turn into a bigger pile of gold. It's time to let someone more creative have a go... That is too important of a corner for this. Inject vibrancy into that building and just watch the pressure mount on the PO and GR press to improve or vacate!

[GRDadof3]

So you are saying that there are developers that would go into a developement knowing that they will not make a profit, just for the sake of saving a building?

I understand if you have developement in which you might make $10Million and it costs $5Million to save the building than yes maybe you should save the building and only make $5Million instead of the possible $10Million.

If you had a developement that would only make you profit of $3Million and it would cost $5Million to restore, would you expect the developer to front the extra $2Million and make no profit?

This also goes back to the fact that if you don't have any interested parties in the site what chances do you take to rebuild it? Do you make it condos when there are several already started sites in the downtown area? Do you make it aparments or retail store fronts when there maybe vacancies already around town? All these choices may change the way you rebuild the inside of the building and what it would be used for.

No, I never said that. I don't think a developer or company should do any kind of business venture that they know will be at a loss (they probably wouldn't get financing for it). I'm saying that if you look at many of the projects that incorporate old structures with new ones, they most likely were not the least expensive option, and they probably cut into profit.

[GRDadof3]

Apparently Nancy Crawley at the Press only sees the Rowe Hotel as an eyesore. Not everyone has vision I guess.

Apparently it would be close to $35 Million for the post office to build a new facility.

In addition to the Pantlind, the old Hotel Statler in St. Louis was preserved, renovated and expanded to create the new Renaissance Grand Hotel across from their new convention center:

Nice retail low rise on that project as well, that would look great along Monroe where the current post office warehouse is.

[Veloise]

Apparently Nancy Crawley at the Press only sees the Rowe Hotel as an eyesore. Not everyone has vision I guess.

...

After Nancy wrote the piece flatly stating that Division & Fulton needed a chain Rx because there was NO PLACE DT to get a scripts nor an aspirin, and the reply came back from the Rx on Fulton, "been here for decades," I became convinced that she needs to visit the optometrist.

[highwayguy]

Interesting that the GR Press only talks about the cost of moving the post office and fails to mention another ugly and out-of-place building in that area that could be torn down to make way for parking or other hotel ammenities, say, on the northeast corner of the intersection..... Perhaps they should blame themselves as well for the situation at that intersection?

[Rhino6885]

After Nancy wrote the piece flatly stating that Division & Fulton needed a chain Rx because there was NO PLACE DT to get a scripts nor an aspirin, and the reply came back from the Rx on Fulton, "been here for decades," I became convinced that she needs to visit the optometrist.

It's funny how many people think they know what's going on downtown, but really have little idea.

On another note, my father and I have a theory. There is (or was) an unlocked door to the Rowe--anybody can just walk through it (if they dare). Yes, it's trespassing (not condoning), but we wonder if it was left open intentionally with hopes that somebody would come along and damage it beyond repair.

[Rizzo]

I think the Crawley piece was pretty much an attempt to call someone out. (?)

[Allison Slater]

Well they said they occasionally do minor repairs.. with that said, I don't see why they would allow someone to come in and vandalise things.

[DJL3CDP]

This gets my vote as the ugliest corner in the DT area. You have the Rowe eyesore which could be nice but isn't. Next you have the GR Press building (nuff said). To the south you have the Federal building which was once described to me by Jack Buchanan as "a leisure suit." Lastly, the newest piece is the butt-end of the Convention Center. All in all, as a "gateway" to DT this is a really bad spot. Too bad as there is so much possibility here.

DJL

[tamias6]

This gets my vote as the ugliest corner in the DT area. You have the Rowe eyesore which could be nice but isn't. Next you have the GR Press building (nuff said). To the south you have the Federal building which was once described to me by Jack Buchanan as "a leisure suit." Lastly, the newest piece is the butt-end of the Convention Center. All in all, as a "gateway" to DT this is a really bad spot. Too bad as there is so much possibility here.

DJL

Don't forget that ugly stone wall holding up the west side of Calder Plaza. Got to love that fortress look.

[AlexPKeaton]

No, I never said that. I don't think a developer or company should do any kind of business venture that they know will be at a loss (they probably wouldn't get financing for it). I'm saying that if you look at many of the projects that incorporate old structures with new ones, they most likely were not the least expensive option, and they probably cut into profit.

The amateur economist in me says that just because "doing the right thing" is cutting into a developer's profits doesn't mean the developer doesn't get any benefit from it. The developer certainly gains goodwill among preservationists like many of us here. I also wonder if selling space in an older rehabbed building is somewhat easier because it's got the cool factor going for it.

[Veloise]

Chris Knape has a few updates on this site. He had the chance to talk with its owner Dick DeVos this past week. ...

Point of clarification: it's Rich DV who owns it. Dad Amway, not "I wanna be gov."

[wingbert]

Interesting that the GR Press only talks about the cost of moving the post office and fails to mention another ugly and out-of-place building in that area that could be torn down to make way for parking or other hotel ammenities, say, on the northeast corner of the intersection..... Perhaps they should blame themselves as well for the situation at that intersection?

Truer words have rarely been spoken my friend. Besides, I think half that GR Press building is taken up by the old printing presses, paper and ink storage areas, etc. that are all obsolete now that they have their printing plant out in Walker. The Rowe isn't trapped between a rock and a hard place, it's trapped between the pot and the kettle.

[speculation] That said, maybe Devos could be in the mist of pulling strings to somehow apply enough pressure to dislodge the post office so he can be free to do what he wishes with that entire block and is not willing to divulge such plans until he is ready to get the ball rolling. [/speculation]

You'd hope those millions in political donations would be able to buy him a favor from time to time.

[DwntwnGeo]

Point of clarification: it's Rich DV who owns it. Dad Amway, not "I wanna be gov."

oops my mistake. Thanks for the correction Veloise

[WOT]

The amateur economist in me says that just because "doing the right thing" is cutting into a developer's profits doesn't mean the developer doesn't get any benefit from it. The developer certainly gains goodwill among preservationists like many of us here. I also wonder if selling space in an older rehabbed building is somewhat easier because it's got the cool factor going for it.

John M. Keyes says..."In the long run, we are all dead"

[GRDadof3]

Truer words have rarely been spoken my friend. Besides, I think half that GR Press building is taken up by the old printing presses, paper and ink storage areas, etc. that are all obsolete now that they have their printing plant out in Walker. The Rowe isn't trapped between a rock and a hard place, it's trapped between the pot and the kettle.

You'd hope those millions in political donations would be able to buy him a favor from time to time.

I like your idea wingbert of relocating the Press and building parking there to serve the Rowe. That would take the PO facility move out of the equation. No, the Rowe wouldn't have waterfront access to start off, but there could be future expansion if/when the post office ever left. The Press site could also be a mixed-use project in addition to just parking.

[Veloise]

Is there not a primo example just one long block south, facing the old Pantlind's north side? Seems like DeVos was involved with that.

[tamias6]

This may sound crazy and way out on a limb. But what would it take to buy out the air rights above the post office and to build a development on top of it? Would it be worth doing that?

[Allison Slater]

I'm fairly certain that would cost more and be more of a hassle in general for what it'd be worth. way more.

[Libertarian]

This may sound crazy and way out on a limb. But what would it take to buy out the air rights above the post office and to build a development on top of it? Would it be worth doing that?

Buying "air rights" generally refers to the actual transfer of the right to build an extra "X" stories or feet than what is permitted under current codes. For instance, say you have an historic structure in NYC that rises only 100 feet but 500 feet of height is allowed, that entity can transfer their unused 400 feet (for a fee of course) to another structure nearby that is being built and can thus rise to 900 feet. Both sides benefit because the historic structure does not have to "sell out" and the developers of the new structure can generate more revenue from the increased height of their new building. I would also be led to believe that the footings or foundation for the post office are not meant to hold several more floors on top of it.