I-75 in Cobb and Cherokee going to 23! lanes

[bfermanich]

When it comes to roads and transportation, everyone is an expert -- sorta like politics. We all know exactly what should be done and dangit if its not done the way we think it should. We're not experts obviously, so I think we should settle down and wait to find out more about this thing before blasting it. One thing is for certain, the AJC has jumped all over this highlighting in big bold letters, 23 LANES ACROSS! Holy crap thats huge! Well its not going to be 23 lanes for the entire stretch! At its widest point, I-75 is 16 lanes across somewhere around Windy Hill Rd. But farther north it narrows down to 10 lanes across, then 8 lanes, then 6 lanes up near Chastain Road. So of course the media has exaserbated this by publicizing its largest features. We have the impression its 23 lanes the whole way!

And like what others have said, pretty much all of the lanes added are going to be either HOV lanes or tractor-trailer lanes. And these lanes will be separated with medians/walls from normal traffic flow. So maybe this won't be as bad as it sounds, at least from the AJC.

[UrbanAtl]

I miss Roy Branes!

Can't GRTA or ARC stop it? Ok, I guess they can't. I'm just being desperate.

[teshadoh]

But it was Roy Barnes that was pushing the Northern Arc.

GRTA isn't stopping it at all, they are the governor's lap dog & this isn't completely in their jurisdiction. The problem is that if this is going to be funded by GA DOT (most likely through some private investment) - they can pretty much build whatever they want. It's up to Cobb County - with ARC's help - to fight against this.

bfermanich - it isn't just the number of lanes - but the width of this freeway will be double what the freeway is now.

[Martinman]

When it comes to roads and transportation, everyone is an expert -- sorta like politics. We all know exactly what should be done and dangit if its not done the way we think it should. We're not experts obviously, so I think we should settle down and wait to find out more about this thing before blasting it. One thing is for certain, the AJC has jumped all over this highlighting in big bold letters, 23 LANES ACROSS! Holy crap thats huge! Well its not going to be 23 lanes for the entire stretch! At its widest point, I-75 is 16 lanes across somewhere around Windy Hill Rd. But farther north it narrows down to 10 lanes across, then 8 lanes, then 6 lanes up near Chastain Road. So of course the media has exaserbated this by publicizing its largest features. We have the impression its 23 lanes the whole way!

And like what others have said, pretty much all of the lanes added are going to be either HOV lanes or tractor-trailer lanes. And these lanes will be separated with medians/walls from normal traffic flow. So maybe this won't be as bad as it sounds, at least from the AJC.

Well If any metro should understand what doesnt work it should be us. The state has focused exclusively on roads in Atlanta for 30 years and yet it is among the worst in the country for traffic and has a worsening smog problem.

[bfermanich]

Well If any metro should understand what doesnt work it should be us. The state has focused exclusively on roads in Atlanta for 30 years and yet it is among the worst in the country for traffic and has a worsening smog problem.

True. But so does most every other sunbelt city. Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Los Angeles. All have been very successful. I think its the down-side of rapid growth and tremendous success. And as far as other modes of transportation go, it would be nice to see MARTA up in Cobb County. I live in Cobb. I'm not one of these people who voted against it. But I think reality is that the area is too spread out with very low density for mass transit to work. Maybe in another 10 years when the county gets completely built out and we really begin to build up and business centers become really established, like Cumberland and Town Center. Then mass transit might make sense, as far as density is concerned.

bfermanich - it isn't just the number of lanes - but the width of this freeway will be double what the freeway is now.

I agree, but I still think you've got to do what you've got to do. Mass transit won't work right now. We can't do nothing. Something needs to be done, right?

If you're concerned about its appearance, its already ugly as sin. So this won't make much of a difference. If you're concerned about future traffic (build it and they will come), I think we're already headed down that road even if we don't do anything at all. It will only get worse, unless we make more lanes to put the cars on. Again, mass transit won't work. The area is too spread out with low density. There aren't too many other alternatives after you scratch that one out.

[Martinman]

True. But so does most every other sunbelt city. Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Los Angeles. All have been very successful. I think its the down-side of rapid growth and tremendous success. And as far as other modes of transportation go, it would be nice to see MARTA up in Cobb County. I live in Cobb. I'm not one of these people who voted against it. But I think reality is that the area is too spread out with very low density for mass transit to work. Maybe in another 10 years when the county gets completely built out and we really begin to build up and business centers become really established, like Cumberland and Town Center. Then mass transit might make sense, as far as density is concerned.

I agree, but I still think you've got to do what you've got to do. Mass transit won't work right now. We can't do nothing. Something needs to be done, right?

And the way to keep it spread out and low dense is to keep doing the same things over and over again.

Those other metros are now focusing much more on transit and all have new and expanding transit options.

The paper also had a list of the largest highway sections in the country and 5 of the top ten in the entire country are right here. As I said before if extra lanes were the answer, we'd have no traffic problem at all.

[SAV]

I think transit would work if there was 1 stop for each area:

Cumberland

Smyrna

Marietta (White Water)

Kennesaw (the college kids at KSU would take advantage)

Acworth

I mean there is nearly 700,000 people in Cobb county.

And cant they just extend the West Marta line to 6 flags. That shouldn't cost much, or does it?

Maybe transit is the reason why some of the other areas in the U.S. became more dense.

[foxmccleod]

What must be considered is the fact that transit very often leads to increased density. Go east or west of downtown and look at the skyline. You can pick out the MARTA stations by the relative density. Placing transit stops in areas that are currently lower density will lead to redevelopment in the near future. This is the idea behind Transit Oriented Development (TOD). Sure, the outlying areas have relatively low density. You can do nothing about this, or you can do something about this. Established centers exist in the outlying couties. Build transit stations there, and density begins to increase.

One can argue that transit is too expensive. However, as long as stations are built with expansion in mind, it is relatively simple to add cars to a train or increase the frequency of bus and train service in dedicated corridors. It is not possible to add more cars to the highway lanes because they are practically at level of service D or F already. The only answer there is to add more lanes. You rarely need to add more bus lanes or rail tracks, because it is easier and more cost effective to increase the density and build on the already constructed infrastructure.

Highway construction just does not work in this manner. Regarding the low density of areas and the lack of need for transit until density increases, remember that land costs usually only increase, and by the time the density is around for substantial transit, it will be even more expensive to build it, and suitable land may no longer be available.

While it is highly likely that more highways are going to be built, it would be very prudent to begin planning for an expansion of the metro transit system, earmarking right-of-ways and station locations so that when the time comes, there is not a mad scramble to figure this out. Highways are only one component of a transportation system, but state planners oftn fail to look beyond them for other, if future, options.

[Andrea]

I think transit would work if there was 1 stop for each area:

Cumberland

Smyrna

Marietta (White Water)

Kennesaw (the college kids at KSU would take advantage)

Acworth

How about downtown May-retta? That's my most frequent Cobb County destination.

[teshadoh]

Some of you all need to look up the plans for the Northwest Connectivity study - there already is a plan for a BRT line into Cobb County with actual stations marked. Though just a few months ago the Franklin Rd station was axed because of NIMBY opposition from the 'white side'.

[SAV]

How about downtown May-retta? That's my most frequent Cobb County destination.

It can stop in downtown Marrieta. I was just saying Whitewater would bring riders.

[g-man430]

Just for the record, I can't believe that our government is this retarded; WTF are they thinking. Do they not know there is this thing called mass transit and global warming too. Watch what all of these wider roads and new buildings going up are going to do to our earth in the next few decades. This is disgusting it's so bad. What a bunch of weirdo's.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

wow. I will need to go down and see this once it's completed in 15 years.

What's amazing to me is that they want to have this massive highway for a long distance, it's not like its going to be 2x lanes in one place, its going to be that way for miles!

I wonder how one would cross such a highway to get on an offramp. hehe

[SAV]

Maybe someone is going to protest

[DigitalSky]

I wonder how one would cross such a highway to get on an offramp. hehe

Just the thought of it is crazy

[teshadoh]

From the perspective of a normal driver - it will be a 12 to 14 lane freeway, 6 to 7 on each side. I would assume they will build HOV ramps for all the exits since they will have to rebuild everything along the corridor. So the impact will be lessened.

It is still massive though...

[Relient J]

Realistically though, this project seems reasonable and necessary to me. Sure you can try to encourage developers to build higer-density buildings in Atlanta's core, and try to encourage the public to try out carpooling and mass transit. However, in the end it's likely that most people in the metro Atlanta area prefer to live where they do and get where they need to go by car.

[ryanmckibben]

/\ Reasonable?

First, I agree with you that some people prefer to live the traditional suburban lifestyle, but why does that obligate society to accomodate those desires? Over the last 50 years this country has financed suburbia to the tune of trillions of dollars. I'm not an accountant, but in my opinion we have done more then enough to open up the crabgrass frontier to the masses.

Second, we have been playing this game for the last twenty years. According to Einstien, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I want to make perfectly clear to those that just don't seem to grasp the concept...

WE CAN NOT PAVE OUR WAY OUT OF CONGESTION

Everyone who claims that Atlantans will not use mass transit are only partly correct. the second half of that statement is ...as long as we keep subsidizing the car by buiding ever larger highways and accomodating the car culture through free parking.

The subsidies given to suburban residents don't end there, but that is another thread.

[Newnan]

It's all about incentives. If you give metro Atlantan's enough reasons to use mass transit, they will use it. The question is what would the incentives be?

[catlike]

^^^

Free rides periodically on certain lines? The Fairfax County Connector (bus) used to do this with some of the lines that ran along common commuting routes.

[ryanmckibben]

I don't think you have to incentivize people to use mass transit. The answer really lies in stoping the incentives already in place that drive the current development pattern.

[Relient J]

First, I agree with you that some people prefer to live the traditional suburban lifestyle, but why does that obligate society to accomodate those desires? Over the last 50 years this country has financed suburbia to the tune of trillions of dollars. I'm not an accountant, but in my opinion we have done more then enough to open up the crabgrass frontier to the masses.

I guess for one thing when I think of metro Atlanta in terms of its transportation society, I think of commuters from the suburbs for the most part. So I'm not sure society has a problem with the suburban, daily commute lifestyle.

Secondly, I'm all about less government subsidies. I believe the market ultimately should decide what the best solution is.

[rocky top buzz]

I often find myself agreeing with you Reliant!

Nashville is in the process of creating a commuter rail, and we are around 1.4 million MSA. If we are doing it, why wouldn't Atlanta? With that said, if this issue has been taken to the voters (for example such as those in Cobb), and they have rejected the idea, then let them continue with their 2 hour commutes.

I think the thought process in Atlanta goes along these lines: I grew up in Fayette County, the only county in the old metro Atlanta that didn't have an interstate in the county limits. My parents always said Fayette County would never allow an interstate connection or mass transit into Fayette County because people think crime and drugs will follow. We all know that's stupid, but is that the perception in the ATL?

[SAV]

I just don't understand. I know these officials know every single thing we are talking about on these forums. I bet some of them are members.

And the whole "Atlanta isn't dense enough thing" is just a bad excuse. Woulndn't tranist help better control growth and density. Even if Atlanta wasn't dense enough, the inner counties are growing like crazy. Are they going to wait untill the counties are hella-dense with populations over 1 million each. I bet when that happens they'll have a new excuse.

Oh, and if anyone thinks that this Extreme highway will be great, go to spaghetti jucntion.

It's funny. Cobb county has nearly 700,000 people, yet the bus doesn't even run on Sunday. I got around better in Savannah, Chatham County, with the CAT(Transit). Chatham doesn't even have over 250,000 and it's not growing that fast. We really need to get this transportation thing together. Im pretty sure it is already convencing people not to move to Atlanta.

Are the counties still crying about "crime" because everytime I look at the news every single county has all sorts of crime from all sorts of people.

[DarkStrider]

23 LANES?! HOLY CRAP that's gonna be WIDE! Good thing I dont live in the Atlanta area, but why dont they just build a Outer Outer loop instead?