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debo2040

examples of cities with highways running through them

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Downtown is expanding past the highways which is normally consider the frame of a downtown district, can anyone give an example of another city that has this?

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Downtown is expanding past the highways which is normally consider the frame of a downtown district, can anyone give an example of another city that has this?

Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit, Miami, etc. etc.

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Well technically

Chicago CBD is contained by the Dan Ryan

Detroit CBD is contained within the Chrysler, Fisher, and Lodge freeways

Freezout is listing cities which have a similar urban fabric that extends over the freeways like Grand Rapids. The title of the thread was "cities" so all of those listed do qualify. If the subject is a core of the city, then no, the freeways do not cut through the core of Grand Rapids. IMO, the core of Grand Rapids is very contained. When you cross it, you've reached a moderate urban spread of midrises and lowrises much like Detroit, Chicago, Atlanta, and Miami.

So which one is it?

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Cincinnati perhaps?

http://www.kodiakvideoproductions.com/Copy..._aerial_opt.jpg

Route 50 aka Fort Washington Way cuts right through what was once a vital part of the city. Just as I-196 and US-131 both do here in GR. Between this route and the river lies three big venues key to the city including a MLB park, an NFL stadium, and an indoor arena(site of the infamous Who disaster). The riverfront is also currently being developed with planned addition of park space to compliment the newly opened Underground Railroad Memorial/Museum. There is also some smart growth development planned for the area.

To the East of 475 is Mt. Adams home to many historic structures including the original city resevoir, a historic water tower, Krohn Conservatory, and Eden Park. The top of Mt. Adams provides a great hill top view over the city in the river valley.

To the west of 71 and 75 is mostly industrial growth where their Tiger Stadium age baseball stadium once stood in now uglified by public housing projects. Union Terminal, the once main rail station of the entire region is located in this part of town and now serves as the city's public museum and is a fine example of art deco architecture.

Copy_of_cincinnati_aerial_opt.jpg

There is still more that could be done but the plans mentioned above look very promising.

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Downtown is expanding past the highways which is normally consider the frame of a downtown district, can anyone give an example of another city that has this?

Downtown Atlanta used to be pretty much consolidated to the West of I-75 until the early 90's.

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Cincinnati perhaps?

Route 50 aka Fort Washington Way cuts right through what was once a vital part of the city. Just as I-196 and US-131 both do here in GR. Between this route and the river lies three big venues key to the city including a MLB park, an NFL stadium, and an indoor arena(site of the infamous Who disaster). The riverfront is also currently being developed with planned addition of park space to compliment the newly opened Underground Railroad Memorial/Museum. There is also some smart growth development planned for the area.

The nice thing about route 50 is that it is below ground. That enables them to eventually cap it and reconnect the riverfront with the rest of downtown. Unfortunately, this is something that Grand Rapids could never do. Another city that really got screwed over by elevated expressways was Seattle, who has an expressway (alaskan way) cuts downtown off from elliot bay. This really takes away from the possibilities of connecting downtown and the waterfront.

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My original home town of Petoskey did the same thing. They cut off the whole waterfront with the US 31 bypass. That was well before I was born.

Cincinnati is a pretty cool city, my brother lives there. Those hills around town make for amazing views. Those highways still separate downtown, I think. I'll have to ask my brother about it though. I think he did say they were planning to cover them which would be nice.

-nb

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San Francisco had that terrible highway right on the Bay, came down and they replaced it with one of the most attractive Boulevards in the US. Large Palm trees, brick paving, great street lights, trolleys and the market has responded. New, really cool condos line the street, all with views of the Bay. The best was the renovation of the Ferry building into the best market in the US on one end, the new stadium on the other

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Our Freeways were built without much foresite in mind, it's evident in their placement, and the fact that the Ford freeway is still only two lanes each way. I've always been a critic of our cities underplanned infrastructure. To me it seems that, just like Calder Plaza, that the cities planners from the 50's and 60's had no vision, and locked us into medicority for decades to come.

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When they redid the S-curve they had a great opportunity to make a portion of our highways not suck. Instead they rebuilt it right in place. Of course it would have taken longer and cost more to re-route the highway, but I wish they would have. While the S-curve was closed down the traffic wasn't nearly as bad as people thought.

I would have liked 131 to veer west and run into 196 around where 196 crosses the river. There's very little over there, it wouldn't be too far out of the way, and the west side would be much more connected to downtown.

-nb

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well firstly I think that the whole traffic mess, was greatly overhyped on purpose, so that when people actually drove in it, they would think, hey, this is not that bad at all. I think it worked the same way with the time frame, so that when they finished something like ten months early, people were pleasantly suprised. They set peoples expectations on the S-curve really low, so that the hassles we faced seemed much more trivial and tame.

Would it have been even possible to route the 131 that way? I would assume that would tear up neighborhoods, causing just as much frustration, and fighting.

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Los Angeles is just such a City. They have several freeways going thru downtown. It's nice if you have to get somewhere, just don't try to get there quick. 4 to 6 lanes in each direction and ALWAYS crowed. :angry:

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Would it have been even possible to route the 131 that way? I would assume that would tear up neighborhoods, causing just as much frustration, and fighting.

I think so. Obviously some things would get torn down, but the path doesn't have too much in the way. I'll have to look at a map though.

-nb

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Without starting a political discussion, it is a fact that politics did play a large role in the placement of the existing freeways downtown. The sectioning off of the west side was as much a goal as having a speedier mode of transportation.

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Our Freeways were built without much foresite in mind, it's evident in their placement, and the fact that the Ford freeway is still only two lanes each way. I've always been a critic of our cities underplanned infrastructure. To me it seems that, just like Calder Plaza, that the cities planners from the 50's and 60's had no vision, and locked us into medicority for decades to come.

SAY THAT!! Although, there are plans afoot to expand I-196 (The Ford) to three lanes in each direction from 44th Street/Rivertown Parkway on the west to were it merges with I-96 at East Beltline on the east. Of course it is being proposed to be done in three phases: 1) the 131/Ford interchange rebuild :shok: to East Beltline; 2) from 131 to 28th SW and 3) from 28th SW to 44th/Rivertown Parkway. The traffic effects of the 131/Ford Interchange rebuild/expansion is gonna make the S-Curve feel like a nice spring day. GOOD GRIEF!

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SAY THAT!! Although, there are plans afoot to expand I-196 (The Ford) to three lanes in each direction from 44th Street/Rivertown Parkway on the west to were it merges with I-96 at East Beltline on the east. Of course it is being proposed to be done in three phases: 1) the 131/Ford interchange rebuild :shok: to East Beltline; 2) from 131 to 28th SW and 3) from 28th SW to 44th/Rivertown Parkway. The traffic effects of the 131/Ford Interchange rebuild/expansion is gonna make the S-Curve feel like a nice spring day. GOOD GRIEF!

When is this scheduled to begin?

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When they redid the S-curve they had a great opportunity to make a portion of our highways not suck. Instead they rebuilt it right in place. Of course it would have taken longer and cost more to re-route the highway, but I wish they would have. While the S-curve was closed down the traffic wasn't nearly as bad as people thought.

I would have liked 131 to veer west and run into 196 around where 196 crosses the river. There's very little over there, it wouldn't be too far out of the way, and the west side would be much more connected to downtown.

-nb

Do you mean by 28th st and I-196 :huh:

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Preliminary construction between 131 and E. Beltline is schedule to begin this summer. MDOT will begin by replacing overpasses along that stretch. Road expansion wouldn't begin until 2007.

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Do you mean by 28th st and I-196 :huh:

No, further north. Say if 131 veered northwest somewhere around Hall or Franklin until it hit 196. On the west side of town it would just go through the old dump, which would probably cause a lot of issues itself, but at least not tearing down whole neighborhoods. On the east side of the river some properties would be affected, but not a huge amount. Perhaps those people could be compensated with newly available and valueable property where 131 used to be. It would make the project an easier sell I'm sure. :)

Of course I'd really just like to see a belt line surround the entire city with no freeways cutting through the middle. But, what's done is done. And, really, despite the negative effect of having freeways cut through urban areas they do serve an important purpose.

-nb

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No, further north. Say if 131 veered northwest somewhere around Hall or Franklin until it hit 196. On the west side of town it would just go through the old dump, which would probably cause a lot of issues itself, but at least not tearing down whole neighborhoods. On the east side of the river some properties would be affected, but not a huge amount. Perhaps those people could be compensated with newly available and valueable property where 131 used to be. It would make the project an easier sell I'm sure. :)

Of course I'd really just like to see a belt line surround the entire city with no freeways cutting through the middle. But, what's done is done. And, really, despite the negative effect of having freeways cut through urban areas they do serve an important purpose.

-nb

That's a good idea.

I think 131 and the S-curve are pretty well-placed through downtown. They don't really divide the neighborhoods east-west because it just runs along the grand river. But they left enough space for usable property along the riverfront.

Now I-196 is another story. Anyone care to vent about that one?

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I agree evac.

Althought 131, did rip families from the West Side and added to distrust for local, state, and federal governments through this community it hasn't provided that much distraction from the downtown community as The Grand River has. The River has provided the seperation of the socio-economic classes that immigrated to Grand Rapids. In early Grand Rapids, The Hill and The West Side was contrasting and continues to this day.

I am sure that in the design of 131, downtown was the only way to be sucessfully implemented of the roadway. The river has divided the settled community for centuries and I wonder if 131 has even added to this as much as it feels. I would contest that it does because it is very elevated and now is designed with a closed face. The current design only mitigates walking through desinated throughways.

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No, further north. Say if 131 veered northwest somewhere around Hall or Franklin until it hit 196. On the west side of town it would just go through the old dump, which would probably cause a lot of issues itself, but at least not tearing down whole neighborhoods. On the east side of the river some properties would be affected, but not a huge amount. Perhaps those people could be compensated with newly available and valueable property where 131 used to be. It would make the project an easier sell I'm sure. :)

Of course I'd really just like to see a belt line surround the entire city with no freeways cutting through the middle. But, what's done is done. And, really, despite the negative effect of having freeways cut through urban areas they do serve an important purpose.

-nb

Not sure how that would work.

To get a straight shot you'd be building right over the CSX railroad yard, and construction over single rail lines is bad enough. A whole railyard? I don't know. With the way railroad law is set up, it would be comparable to asking God to build a elevated freeway through heaven. :wacko:

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