Grand Rapids Then and Now

[torgo]

Personally, I like the new skin a lot better than the old...except for the tendency for the building to look filthy, as it does now.

[tamias6]

Personally, I like the new skin a lot better than the old...except for the tendency for the building to look filthy, as it does now.

I'm glad the Plaza Tower was reskined. Before, the building over powered the rest of the skyline. Now with lighter colors, it doesn't seem so imposing.

[Khorasaurus]

You are correct! The corregated pipes were on the parking ramp.

The other thing that stands out is those hideous rectangular metal traffic light/street sign holders. They pretty much scream "our downtown got urban renewaled and pedestrian malled to death but at least we have super cool ultra modern traffic light holders!"

[downtownGRguy]

Personally, I like the new skin a lot better than the old...except for the tendency for the building to look filthy, as it does now.

Cleaning and resealing the exterior of the Plaza Towers is in the nearby plans..at least I know I saw the cost in the budget...ouch!

[GRDadof3]

Chris Knape of the Press has an interesting piece on his BLOG showing discussions and planning for downtown GR in the 1950's (pre-urban renewal). A very interesting read. Even before the onset of suburban shopping malls, there was great concern for several areas of downtown drastically losing property value and losing business. The feeling then was that due to this and the increasing traffic loads, that highways needed to be built and that most of the buildings without proper fire protection should be replaced. Click on the pdf link that he has.

I haven't read the whole thing, but one part that jumped out is that the city was going to sell the Exhibitors Building (the yellowish building North of the Amway Grand tower with the griffin reliefs on it) to a development group to level it and make a "park" and parking lot for the Civic Auditorium. There's also much discussion about building a new jail on the riverfront as part of a Civic Auditorium complex (the late Hall of Justice apparently).

[Michi]

Holy cow! I never knew the Plaza Towers were reskinned. I thought the towers were relatively new in the first place. How many years did they have the original skin, and what prompeted the authority to change it? Seems like a luxury decision.

Personally, I like the new one better. The original seems a bit too loud and is almost flirting with the look of a "projects".

[GRDadof3]

Holy cow! I never knew the Plaza Towers were reskinned. I thought the towers were relatively new in the first place. How many years did they have the original skin, and what prompeted the authority to change it? Seems like a luxury decision.

Personally, I like the new one better. The original seems a bit too loud and is almost flirting with the look of a "projects".

The original skin had major defects only after being open less than 10 years, which caused massive water damage to the interior units and the concrete panels to buckle. They were either going to reskin it or tear it down from what I understand. Amway stepped in and fronted much of the money to reskin it.

[Allison Slater]

The original skin wasn't up for very long at all from what I remember. I think it was only up for about a year? I think I remember something about the building having leaking problems of some sort around the walls, and had to be re-skinned. I don't know what prompted the colour change, though.

But that's all a very, very faint memory.. I could even be wrong... I think I was about 11-12 at the time. Plaza Towers have been up for a while.. at least 10 years I believe.

[civitas]

The original skin wasn't up for very long at all from what I remember. I think it was only up for about a year? I think I remember something about the building having leaking problems of some sort around the walls, and had to be re-skinned. I don't know what prompted the colour change, though.

But that's all a very, very faint memory.. I could even be wrong... I think I was about 11-12 at the time. Plaza Towers have been up for a while.. at least 10 years I believe.

The building stood for longer than a year while problems were discovered and solutions considered (including tearing the whole building down). The original brick was fairly thin and glued onto wall panels. Individual bricks started falling off from the panels early on. A net was installed near the ground floor to keep the bricks from causing damage. But the problem was much bigger than just the wall panels. Mechanical and plumbing systems were replaced, kitchens and bathrooms were rebuilt, etc. Rumor had it that the original building cost $60M and a similar amount was spent fixing it.

The building was built with Amway money by a Chicago developer (who hasn't been seen much in this town since). One story told of a meeting with Jay and Rich where it was suggested that the building needed to be demolished. One said to the other, "We're builders, not destroyers." They moved everyone out of the building and spent a very long time completely rebuilding the mess.

[Nitro]

The original skin wasn't up for very long at all from what I remember. I think it was only up for about a year? I think I remember something about the building having leaking problems of some sort around the walls, and had to be re-skinned.

There is documentation that the facade system had failed as far back as during the original construction. One of my profs was on the investigation team and recalled walls being wet before the building was even complete.

[GRDadof3]

You guys should check out my LINK that originally bumped this thread. Chris Knape dug up a fascinating document showing the city's plans to redesign downtown in the 1950's prior to Calder Plaza.

I think the courts said all there is to say about Plaza Towers.

[grrwymg]

The building stood for longer than a year while problems were discovered and solutions considered (including tearing the whole building down). The original brick was fairly thin and glued onto wall panels. Individual bricks started falling off from the panels early on. A net was installed near the ground floor to keep the bricks from causing damage. But the problem was much bigger than just the wall panels. Mechanical and plumbing systems were replaced, kitchens and bathrooms were rebuilt, etc. Rumor had it that the original building cost $60M and a similar amount was spent fixing it.

The building was built with Amway money by a Chicago developer (who hasn't been seen much in this town since). One story told of a meeting with Jay and Rich where it was suggested that the building needed to be demolished. One said to the other, "We're builders, not destroyers." They moved everyone out of the building and spent a very long time completely rebuilding the mess.

I'm glad they chose to fix the problems and not do a total demo of the site. I think that may have really made a horrible impression on everyone involved, and even those not involved.

It looks good now from both the outside and inside. Pretty soon PT will have a new residential-unit kid brother when River House goes up. That'll bring our total kids to 4. (5 if you want to throw McKay into the mix). And then when Marriot is done...wow...a big happy tower family.

[Nitro]

You guys should check out my LINK that originally bumped this thread. Chris Knape dug up a fascinating document showing the city's plans to redesign downtown in the 1950's prior to Calder Plaza.

Oh man, I didn't know we had a Win Schuler's restaurant in town. Love that bar cheese!!! I wish it were still here.

It is amazing to look at that photo and see that we've wiped out an entire business district through the years. What a bummer.

Urban Renewal was a real pisser for this town.

[civitas]

Sorry about the size of this image, but you just have to see it full size (scroll to the right to see the rest).

It is dated 1915.

Edited July 15, 2006 by civitas

[civitas]

[civitas]

Peck Building

Aldrich Building (Van Hoeks Shoes)

Edited July 15, 2006 by civitas

[DwntwnGeo]

Sorry about the size of this image, but you just have to see it full size (scroll to the right to see the rest).

It is dated 1915.

Great pictures Civitas!

[john_denver]

Sorry about the size of this image, but you just have to see it full size (scroll to the right to see the rest).

It is dated 1915.

Where are we here?

Is the second bridge from the left Fulton?

What is the bridge to the far left?

[GRDadof3]

The bridge to the left I would guess is Fulton, the next bridge is a railroad bridge (now the blue ped bridge). I think this pictures was taken from the roof of a building about where Kinko's sits now. I think a few people around here were alive at the time, so maybe they can verify.

[civitas]

The bridge to the left I would guess is Fulton, the next bridge is a railroad bridge (now the blue ped bridge). I think this pictures was taken from the roof of a building about where Kinko's sits now. I think a few people around here were alive at the time, so maybe they can verify.

You start looking south down the river and turn clockwise almost a full 360 degrees.

The skylight in the lower left and the one in the lower right may be the same skylight.

I wasn't there at the time, but I think you're right about the bridges.

[john_denver]

This picture makes it look like the river has a severe bend. The river never had a bend think this, right?

When I pan right I get even more confused. I am sure the street locations have been altered a few times since this picture was taken.

[GRGyp]

The bridge to the left I would guess is Fulton, the next bridge is a railroad bridge (now the blue ped bridge). I think this pictures was taken from the roof of a building about where Kinko's sits now. I think a few people around here were alive at the time, so maybe they can verify.

River structures from left to right.

Truss bridge - Railroad bridge for the old G.R. & I (At least I think it was built for the G.R. & I. If not, it's the Chicago & West Michigan RR that became part of the Pere Marquette/C&O/CSX system.)

Truss bridge - Fulton St bridge (This bridge must not have lasted long. 1890's maps don't show it, and the current open spandrel bridge was built in 1927.)

Truss bridge - G.R. & I RR bridge

Truss - Second railroad bridge?

(First thought: Interesting, because I can't find any maps with this bridge on it. 1890's with a gap to a 1914 map. At most it lasted 20 years, or one of the maps I saw is seriously wrong.)

(Second thought: Could the rock pile in the river be the remains of a footing for this bridge?)

Arch bridge - Pearl St bridge

Arch bridge - Bridge St bridge

Line in the river - Dam at the head of the canal system

Faint bridge beyond - Leonard St bridge.

Edited July 17, 2006 by GRGyp

[Prankster]

(Second thought: Could the rock pile in the river be the remains of a footing for this bridge?)

There was an article a while back that stated that the rock pile was just that, a rock pile. It was never used as a bridge footing, or an old mill, like a lot of people believe. Seems odd that something like this that is not manmade would last for so long.

[civitas]

There was an article a while back that stated that the rock pile was just that, a rock pile. It was never used as a bridge footing, or an old mill, like a lot of people believe. Seems odd that something like this that is not manmade would last for so long.

I was told that the rockpile had something to do with the old jail that was in that area.

[mpchicago]

Thats a great shot. I can see:

The Choice One Building

The BOB

50 Monroe Place (Huntington)

The Pantland

Is that rock in the river the same that is there today?