North Little Rock Development

[LRguy21]

I think McCain still has some life left in it, but with more and more stores leaving, its like just letting the mall stay on life support in a crappy hospital. I remember during Halloween, there was a costume gallery. Something that only lasted 5 weeks that took up space of some previous large store. Needless to say I was surprised that this was there, but now that I think of it, im not anymore. I think it

[skirby]

There is talk about the Arkansas State Fairgrounds moving to NLR. Officials are looking for around 400 acres to build a new home. The present fairground area is too small for expansion. They are looking to start construction in about three years. One of the projects for the new fairgrounds would be a drag strip. One of the sites being discussed is located near I-40/I-30. A change in location is long overdue.

[turboturtle]

There is talk about the Arkansas State Fairgrounds moving to NLR. Officials are looking for around 400 acres to build a new home. The present fairground area is too small for expansion. They are looking to start construction in about three years. One of the projects for the new fairgrounds would be a drag strip. One of the sites being discussed is located near I-40/I-30. A change in location is long overdue.

I support a new home. But, talk about nostalgia. I am glad I will share the same memories of going to the State Fair as my daughters. You guys recall the Diamond arena days?

[LRguy21]

What will become of Barton? Maybe they could redevelop the land. That area of town is depressed right now, maybe this could help it.

Anyways, back to NLR. This development would be different. But where could this go?

[LRU1967]

There is talk about the Arkansas State Fairgrounds moving to NLR. Officials are looking for around 400 acres to build a new home. The present fairground area is too small for expansion. They are looking to start construction in about three years. One of the projects for the new fairgrounds would be a drag strip. One of the sites being discussed is located near I-40/I-30. A change in location is long overdue.

Any idea how they propose to pay for it?

[Architect]

I support a new home. But, talk about nostalgia. I am glad I will share the same memories of going to the State Fair as my daughters. You guys recall the Diamond arena days?

I remember the Diamond Arena from 1991 or so....would have been located smack in the River Market District. I'm sort of glad how it all turned out (location-wise). However, what does this have to do with the state fair? Did they propose that the Diamond Arena somehow fit into that?

[turboturtle]

I remember the Diamond Arena from 1991 or so....would have been located smack in the River Market District. I'm sort of glad how it all turned out (location-wise). However, what does this have to do with the state fair? Did they propose that the Diamond Arena somehow fit into that?

No... but Diamond Areana would have been the first alternative to Barton... the general public wouldn't get behind it. I think the mentality was Barton forever.

[Architect]

No... but Diamond Areana would have been the first alternative to Barton... the general public wouldn't get behind it. I think the mentality was Barton forever.

Well, the economy wasn't great in 1991 and so the idea of taxes didn't sell well. However, the real problem was that Little Rock tried to swallow this on their own. The ultimate Pulaski county-wide effort (Alltel) proved successful in that regard. It also spread the cost out across a much larger tax base, allowing it to sunset much earlier.

I think history will show however that what was built was on the ultra-basic level. It certainly has served its purpose well and has been successful as measured in total attendance (actually stellar in that regard), but I don't think its going to age well. Furthermore, the more recent facilities built in similar markets (Tulsa, Des Moines, etc...) are MUCH nicer and have a lot higher quality and include many more amenities (multiple concourses, etc.).

[theman]

Well, the economy wasn't great in 1991 and so the idea of taxes didn't sell well. However, the real problem was that Little Rock tried to swallow this on their own. The ultimate Pulaski county-wide effort (Alltel) proved successful in that regard. It also spread the cost out across a much larger tax base, allowing it to sunset much earlier.

I think history will show however that what was built was on the ultra-basic level. It certainly has served its purpose well and has been successful as measured in total attendance (actually stellar in that regard), but I don't think its going to age well. Furthermore, the more recent facilities built in similar markets (Tulsa, Des Moines, etc...) are MUCH nicer and have a lot higher quality and include many more amenities (multiple concourses, etc.).

Alltel not having multiple concourses doesn't bother me. I attended a Miami Heat game at American Airlines Arena back in November. It and Alltel were built roughly around the same time. American Airlines Arena has multiple concourses, but they are very narrow. I prefer the singe wide concourse of Alltel (it will be the last of the large single concourse arenas). I agree that Alltel may not age well and I hope there are plans in place to refurbish Alltel when the time comes. I think the $80 million spent to build Alltel was money well spent.

Edited January 9, 2008 by theman

[LRguy21]

What

[Aporkalypse]

There is talk about the Arkansas State Fairgrounds moving to NLR. Officials are looking for around 400 acres to build a new home. The present fairground area is too small for expansion. They are looking to start construction in about three years. One of the projects for the new fairgrounds would be a drag strip. One of the sites being discussed is located near I-40/I-30. A change in location is long overdue.

That is interesting.

The present location is difficult to find and moderately unsafe. I think attendance would benefit from another location.

How would permanent buildings - Hall of Industry, etc be built? How would the whole deal be paid for?

[skirby]

The Fairgrounds is run by a non-profit organization and it does receive some state funding. They are talking about building a 5,000 seat arena and said an arena the size of Barton is no longer needed(at this time). I think they are trying to get more into the expo business and the buildings they have now do not work very well. They are looking for open land but I think they should look at the land in NLR east of I-30 and north of Broadway. This area is in need of an overhaul and a fairground/expo center development might be just what the doctor is calling for. They wouldn't need as much land because people could be transported there they way they do at Riverfest. They could even run the trolley down Broadway to provide transportation from the downtowns of LR and NLR.

[Aporkalypse]

The Fairgrounds is run by a non-profit organization and it does receive some state funding. They are talking about building a 5,000 seat arena and said an arena the size of Barton is no longer needed(at this time). I think they are trying to get more into the expo business and the buildings they have now do not work very well. They are looking for open land but I think they should look at the land in NLR east of I-30 and north of Broadway. This area is in need of an overhaul and a fairground/expo center development might be just what the doctor is calling for. They wouldn't need as much land because people could be transported there they way they do at Riverfest. They could even run the trolley down Broadway to provide transportation from the downtowns of LR and NLR.

That's the same location I had in mind.

Thanks for the info.

[LRU1967]

The Fairgrounds is run by a non-profit organization and it does receive some state funding. They are talking about building a 5,000 seat arena and said an arena the size of Barton is no longer needed(at this time). I think they are trying to get more into the expo business and the buildings they have now do not work very well. They are looking for open land but I think they should look at the land in NLR east of I-30 and north of Broadway. This area is in need of an overhaul and a fairground/expo center development might be just what the doctor is calling for. They wouldn't need as much land because people could be transported there they way they do at Riverfest. They could even run the trolley down Broadway to provide transportation from the downtowns of LR and NLR.

The president of the State Fair said they needed 300 acres. Where do you get that much land east of I-30 and north of E. Broadway.

[turboturtle]

The president of the State Fair said they needed 300 acres. Where do you get that much land east of I-30 and north of E. Broadway.

How about where the proposed site for the Shoppes at North Hills? I have no idea of acreage though.

[LRU1967]

How about where the proposed site for the Shoppes at North Hills? I have no idea of acreage though.

It would be a shame to deprive the developers of all that tax money so Dark Hollow is a non-starter. I'm thinking that a site near the Port of LR might work.

[Aporkalypse]

How about where the proposed site for the Shoppes at North Hills? I have no idea of acreage though.

That project will still be built.

...and that would mean fully rather than partially destroying a wetland.

[LRU1967]

If Bass Pro develops the Pyramid in Memphis will if change their plans for NLR?

[turboturtle]

If Bass Pro develops the Pyramid in Memphis will if change their plans for NLR?

I am wondering what Belz-Burrow has developed and of that what did not hinge on government subsidy. I know about the Jonesboro development. I think there was some sort of subsidy for that, I know a TIF was considered. Also, there is the Hilton at I-630 and University. That was developed with the help of a City approved bond issue to the tune of about $14 mil. I believe he still owns the former Brandon House building across from the Hilton. He developed a two tenant site on University across from UALR that houses a Little Ceasars and GameXChange. I think he did that small project by himself.

Didn't he have something to do with the Peabody? Was that subsidized? What else?

I'm wondering if he has the fortitude to develop the Shoppes at North Hills, should there be no subsidy. I know he says, and many believe, that the development will be built. If you consider how long ago it was proposed and how many other sites in our MSA our online or coming online, I not so sure the Shoppes at North Hills will get off paper. Maybe someone other than Belz-Burrow.

[Architect]

If Bass Pro develops the Pyramid in Memphis will if change their plans for NLR?

While I'm indifferent to Bass Pro and the Shoppes at North Hills, I don't believe a store in Memphis would have any impact whatsoever on a (North) Little Rock location.

As an aside, I suppose they're trying to do SOMETHING with the Pyramid, but I can't imagine a more tacky idea than that....

[Aporkalypse]

While I'm indifferent to Bass Pro and the Shoppes at North Hills, I don't believe a store in Memphis would have any impact whatsoever on a (North) Little Rock location.

As an aside, I suppose they're trying to do SOMETHING with the Pyramid, but I can't imagine a more tacky idea than that....

I'm with you. At one point an aquarium had been mentioned for the Pyramid and I thought that was an outstanding idea but what do you do with something like that? It's such a boondoggle.

I know for a fact Bass Pro wants locations in every decent-sized metro and it wouldn't affect central Arkansas. Shreveport having one didn't.

Turtle, Belz-Burrow developed the Peabody hotels in multiple cities but it also has done tons of commercial developments and shopping centers in multiple states, probably the largest of which in Arkansas was the Mall at Turtle Creek in Jonesboro. Peabody Place was a huge, espensive multiuse project in Memphis.

The lawsuits are the hold up with North Hills. There's an attorney who is coming up with every suit he can find under the guise of being an environmentalist but knowing that location, I just don't see it. That's not a viable wetland.

[skirby]

A Farmer's market is in the works for Argenta. It will feature locally grown produce. This has its pros and cons.

Also, a few pictures on what's going on. They keep taking apart the old feed mill.

This one show the mill from 7th and Main. The concrete slab in the foreground is where the Twin City Bank trailer was parked. This is the site, just West of the Trolley Barn, for a mixed-use building that will include a branch of the bank.

Work has started on the Citygrove Townhouse project. This will be on Maple Street.

On Main Street the THEA Foundation has located to the 400 block and the Starving Artist Cafe has announced they will be moving to the same block this summer. Starving Artist Cafe

[cocothief]

Odd that NLR is investing in a Farmer's Market when the state's largest outdoor market is a rock skip across the river.

[bchris02]

Odd that NLR is investing in a Farmer's Market when the state's largest outdoor market is a rock skip across the river.

There is always an attitude of competition instead of working together between LR and NLR, especially among those in NLR.

[skirby]

Odd that NLR is investing in a Farmer's Market when the state's largest outdoor market is a rock skip across the river.

The NLR market is being pushed by the man that ran Hardin's River Mercantile in the River Market. For sometime there has been a disagreement between local farmers and those that bring in purchased produce. I think this is more of a group effort by farmers and the city is not putting money into the venture. If it is then the city might apply for government grants to build a building for the market at a later time.