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100 Largest US County Population estimates- What are the latest 2005 MSA and CSA populations?

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http://www.census.gov/popest/estimates.php

100 Largest US County Population estimates

July 1, 2005

Los Angeles County, CA 9,935,475

Cook County, IL 5,303,683

Harris County, TX 3,693,050

Maricopa County, AZ 3,635,528

Orange County, CA 2,988,072

San Diego County, CA 2,933,462

Kings County, NY 2,486,235

Miami-Dade County, FL 2,376,014

Dallas County, TX 2,305,454

Queens County, NY 2,241,600

Wayne County, MI 1,998,217

San Bernardino County, CA 1,963,535

Riverside County, CA 1,946,419

King County, WA 1,793,583

Broward County, FL 1,777,638

Clark County, NV 1,710,551

Santa Clara County, CA 1,699,052

Tarrant County, TX 1,620,479

New York County, NY 1,593,200

Bexar County, TX 1,518,370

Suffolk County, NY 1,474,927

Philadelphia County, PA 1,463,281

Middlesex County, MA 1,459,011

Alameda County, CA 1,448,905

Sacramento County, CA 1,363,482

Bronx County, NY 1,357,589

Cuyahoga County, OH 1,335,317

Nassau County, NY 1,333,137

Palm Beach County, FL 1,268,548

Allegheny County, PA 1,235,841

Oakland County, MI 1,214,361

Hillsborough County, FL 1,132,152

Hennepin County, MN 1,119,364

Franklin County, OH 1,090,771

Orange County, FL 1,023,023

Contra Costa County, CA 1,017,787

Fairfax County, VA 1,006,529

St. Louis County, MO 1,004,666

Salt Lake County, UT 948,172

Westchester County, NY 940,807

Erie County, NY 930,703

DuPage County, IL 929,113

Pinellas County, FL 928,032

Montgomery County, MD 927,583

Pima County, AZ 924,786

Milwaukee County, WI 921,654

Fulton County, GA 915,623

Shelby County, TN 909,035

Honolulu County, HI 905,266

Fairfield County, CT 902,775

Bergen County, NJ 902,561

Travis County, TX 888,185

Fresno County, CA 877,584

Hartford County, CT 877,393

Marion County, IN 863,133

New Haven County, CT 846,766

Prince George's County, MD 846,123

Macomb County, MI 829,453

Duval County, FL 826,436

Hamilton County, OH 806,652

Mecklenburg County, NC 796,372

Ventura County, CA 796,106

Essex County, NJ 791,057

Middlesex County, NJ 789,516

Baltimore County, MD 786,113

Worcester County, MA 783,262

Montgomery County, PA 775,883

Kern County, CA 756,825

Pierce County, WA 753,787

Wake County, NC 748,815

San Francisco County, CA 739,426

Essex County, MA 738,301

Monroe County, NY 733,366

Gwinnett County, GA 726,273

El Paso County, TX 721,598

Lake County, IL 702,682

Jefferson County, KY 699,827

San Mateo County, CA 699,610

Oklahoma County, OK 684,543

Hidalgo County, TX 678,275

DeKalb County, GA 677,959

Multnomah County, OR 672,906

San Joaquin County, CA 664,116

Cobb County, GA 663,818

Jackson County, MO 662,959

Collin County, TX 659,457

Jefferson County, AL 657,229

Snohomish County, WA 655,944

Suffolk County, MA 654,428

Norfolk County, MA 653,595

Will County, IL 642,813

Providence County, RI 639,653

Monmouth County, NJ 635,952

Baltimore city, MD 635,815

Bucks County, PA 621,342

Bernalillo County, NM 603,562

Hudson County, NJ 603,521

Kent County, MI 596,666

Davidson County, TN 575,261

Tulsa County, OK 572,059

100 fastest growing counties

Population Estimates for the 100 Fastest Growing U.S. Counties with 10,000 or more Population in 2005:

April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2005

Geographic Area Percent

Flagler County, FL 53.3

Loudoun County, VA 50.7

Rockwall County, TX 46.1

Kendall County, IL 45.8

Forsyth County, GA 42.7

Douglas County, CO 41.9

Henry County, GA 40.6

Newton County, GA 39.9

Lincoln County, SD 38.2

Paulding County, GA 37.8

Lyon County, NV 37.7

Delaware County, OH 36.6

Osceola County, FL 34.3

Collin County, TX 34.1

Scott County, MN 33.9

Williamson County, TX 33.4

Spencer County, KY 33

Hamilton County, IN 31.7

Union County, NC 31.6

Lake County, FL 31.6

Washington County, UT 31.6

St. Johns County, FL 31.2

Fort Bend County, TX 30.8

Barrow County, GA 29.9

Cherokee County, GA 29.8

Spotsylvania County, VA 28.9

Montgomery County, TX 28.7

Matanuska-Susitna Borough, AK 28.1

Denton County, TX 28.1

Will County, IL 28

Pinal County, AZ 27.9

DeSoto County, MS 27.8

Franklin County, WA 27.7

Placer County, CA 27.6

Hays County, TX 27.5

Stafford County, VA 27.5

Currituck County, NC 27.1

Dallas County, IA 27

Sherburne County, MN 26.9

Weld County, CO 26.6

Tooele County, UT 26

Riverside County, CA 26

Jackson County, GA 25.7

Lee County, GA 25.6

St. Lucie County, FL 25.2

Canyon County, ID 25.2

Effingham County, GA 25

Kaufman County, TX 25

Wasatch County, UT 24.7

Walton County, GA 24.7

Nye County, NV 24.5

Pasco County, FL 24.5

Clark County, NV 24.3

Prince William County, VA 24.1

Culpeper County, VA 24.1

Suffolk city, VA 24.1

Walton County, FL 23.9

Christian County, MO 23.9

Pickens County, GA 23.8

Rains County, TX 23.7

Warren County, OH 23.6

Boone County, KY 23.6

Lee County, FL 23.6

Fluvanna County, VA 23.5

Gwinnett County, GA 23.4

Wakulla County, FL 23.4

Dawson County, GA 23.3

Coweta County, GA 23.2

Comal County, TX 23.1

Wright County, MN 23

Berkeley County, WV 23

King George County, VA 22.8

Lincoln County, MO 22.6

Deschutes County, OR 22.5

Hendricks County, IN 22.5

Collier County, FL 22.2

Douglas County, GA 22.2

St. Croix County, WI 22.2

Burnet County, TX 22.1

Bryan County, GA 21.9

Hoke County, NC 21.9

Brunswick County, NC 21.9

Benton County, AR 21.9

Pike County, PA 21.7

Santa Rosa County, FL 21.5

Clay County, FL 21.5

Williamson County, TN 21.3

Bastrop County, TX 21.2

Hernando County, FL 21.1

Carver County, MN 20.9

Carroll County, GA 20.8

Boone County, IL 20.8

Mohave County, AZ 20.7

White County, GA 20.6

Kendall County, TX 20.5

Utah County, UT 20.4

Isanti County, MN 20.4

Sumter County, FL 20.3

Chisago County, MN 20.2

Johnston County, NC 20.1

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It's amazing that Fulton County GA (Atlanta) has gained close to 100,000 since 2000. That's a tremendous amount of growth for a metro central county, even in a fast growing metro like Atlanta.

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Livingston County is adding a lot of people, but percentage wise it isn't growing nearly as fast as some of those podunk southern counties that are being eaten alive by sprawl.

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Livingston County is adding a lot of people, but percentage wise it isn't growing nearly as fast as some of those podunk southern counties that are being eaten alive by sprawl.

I can't speak for other states but why does the counties in the south have to be podunk. Per the census bureau, Livingston County only has a population of 177,538. Hardly the number I would deem as a thriving metropolis. Many of Georgia's fastest growing are suburban counties. Hardly podunk. I would go as far as to say most in Florida are directly connected to much larger urban centers as well. I'm locating Livingston County on the map, it is no different from the southern counties being eaten alive by sprawl. Am I right?

Also you sinlge out southern counties. There are quite a few western and even midwestern counties represented as well.

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100 fastest growing counties by actual population growth

Population Estimates for the 100 Fastest Growing U.S. Counties with 10,000 or more Population in 2005:

April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2005

Geographic Area

Population estimates

Change, 2000 to 2005

1-Jul-05

Number

Percent

Flagler County, FL

76,410

26,578

53.3

Loudoun County, VA

255,518

85,919

50.7

Rockwall County, TX

62,944

19,870

46.1

Kendall County, IL

79,514

24,994

45.8

Forsyth County, GA

140,393

41,986

42.7

Douglas County, CO

249,416

73,650

41.9

Henry County, GA

167,848

48,478

40.6

Newton County, GA

86,713

24,712

39.9

Lincoln County, SD

33,381

9,234

38.2

Paulding County, GA

112,411

30,843

37.8

Lyon County, NV

47,515

13,014

37.7

Delaware County, OH

150,268

40,279

36.6

Osceola County, FL

231,578

59,085

34.3

Collin County, TX

659,457

167,680

34.1

Scott County, MN

119,825

30,327

33.9

Williamson County, TX

333,457

83,490

33.4

Spencer County, KY

15,651

3,885

33

Hamilton County, IN

240,685

57,945

31.7

Union County, NC

162,929

39,157

31.6

Lake County, FL

277,035

66,508

31.6

Washington County, UT

118,885

28,531

31.6

St. Johns County, FL

161,525

38,377

31.2

Fort Bend County, TX

463,650

109,205

30.8

Barrow County, GA

59,954

13,810

29.9

Cherokee County, GA

184,211

42,304

29.8

Spotsylvania County, VA

116,549

26,154

28.9

Montgomery County, TX

378,033

84,265

28.7

Matanuska-Susitna Borough, AK

76,006

16,684

28.1

Denton County, TX

554,642

121,680

28.1

Will County, IL

642,813

140,546

28

Pinal County, AZ

229,549

50,008

27.9

DeSoto County, MS

137,004

29,805

27.8

Franklin County, WA

63,011

13,664

27.7

Placer County, CA

317,028

68,629

27.6

Hays County, TX

124,432

26,866

27.5

Stafford County, VA

117,874

25,428

27.5

Currituck County, NC

23,112

4,922

27.1

Dallas County, IA

51,762

11,012

27

Sherburne County, MN

81,752

17,337

26.9

Weld County, CO

228,943

48,082

26.6

Tooele County, UT

51,311

10,576

26

Riverside County, CA

1,946,419

401,032

26

Jackson County, GA

52,292

10,703

25.7

Lee County, GA

31,099

6,342

25.6

St. Lucie County, FL

241,305

48,610

25.2

Canyon County, ID

164,593

33,152

25.2

Effingham County, GA

46,924

9,389

25

Kaufman County, TX

89,129

17,819

25

Wasatch County, UT

18,974

3,759

24.7

Walton County, GA

75,647

14,960

24.7

Nye County, NV

40,477

7,965

24.5

Pasco County, FL

429,065

84,297

24.5

Clark County, NV

1,710,551

334,813

24.3

Prince William County, VA

348,588

67,775

24.1

Culpeper County, VA

42,530

8,268

24.1

Suffolk city, VA

78,994

15,317

24.1

Walton County, FL

50,324

9,723

23.9

Christian County, MO

67,266

12,981

23.9

Pickens County, GA

28,442

5,463

23.8

Rains County, TX

11,305

2,166

23.7

Warren County, OH

196,622

37,580

23.6

Boone County, KY

106,272

20,280

23.6

Lee County, FL

544,758

103,870

23.6

Fluvanna County, VA

24,751

4,704

23.5

Gwinnett County, GA

726,273

137,825

23.4

Wakulla County, FL

28,212

5,349

23.4

Dawson County, GA

19,731

3,732

23.3

Coweta County, GA

109,903

20,688

23.2

Comal County, TX

96,018

17,997

23.1

Wright County, MN

110,730

20,737

23

Berkeley County, WV

93,394

17,489

23

King George County, VA

20,637

3,834

22.8

Lincoln County, MO

47,727

8,783

22.6

Deschutes County, OR

141,382

26,015

22.5

Hendricks County, IN

127,483

23,390

22.5

Collier County, FL

307,242

55,865

22.2

Douglas County, GA

112,760

20,476

22.2

St. Croix County, WI

77,144

13,989

22.2

Burnet County, TX

41,676

7,553

22.1

Bryan County, GA

28,549

5,132

21.9

Hoke County, NC

41,016

7,370

21.9

Brunswick County, NC

89,162

16,021

21.9

Benton County, AR

186,938

33,534

21.9

Pike County, PA

56,337

10,035

21.7

Santa Rosa County, FL

143,105

25,362

21.5

Clay County, FL

171,095

30,281

21.5

Williamson County, TN

153,595

26,957

21.3

Bastrop County, TX

69,932

12,216

21.2

Hernando County, FL

158,409

27,607

21.1

Carver County, MN

84,864

14,659

20.9

Carroll County, GA

105,453

18,185

20.8

Boone County, IL

50,483

8,697

20.8

Mohave County, AZ

187,200

32,168

20.7

White County, GA

24,055

4,111

20.6

Kendall County, TX

28,607

4,864

20.5

Utah County, UT

443,738

75,198

20.4

Isanti County, MN

37,664

6,377

20.4

Sumter County, FL

64,182

10,837

20.3

Chisago County, MN

49,400

8,299

20.2

Johnston County, NC

146,437

24,537

20.1

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Podunk - adj. - A small isolated town, region, or place that is regarded as unimportant.

They're podunk because they went from having a small rural population 30 years ago to having thousands of acres of suburban sprawl today.

For instance, Forsyth County had 27,958 people in 1980. Today it is estimated to have 140,393.

In 1980, Livingston County had a population of 100,289. Today it has 181,517. Livingston County has only grown by about 81% in the last 25 years, while Forsyth County has grown by 402% in that same period. It is true that Livingston County has an unbelievable amount of sprawl, but it's nothing compared to what we've seen in the south in the last 30 years.

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Podunk - adj. - A small isolated town, region, or place that is regarded as unimportant.

They're podunk because they went from having a small rural population 30 years ago to having thousands of acres of suburban sprawl today.

For instance, Forsyth County had 27,958 people in 1980. Today it is estimated to have 140,393.

In 1980, Livingston County had a population of 100,289. Today it has 181,517. Livingston County has only grown by about 81% in the last 25 years, while Forsyth County has grown by 402% in that same period.

At what point then does a county shake off the adjective podunk? Thirty years ago was a long time. Thirty years ago Atlanta was not as large as it is today (I am referring to metro) but I would not consider it podunk then nor do I consider it podunk now. When you intially called these places podunk, you were not referring to how they were 30 years ago. You were referring to them as they are today and that assessment is not accurate on all of the southern state counties in the top 100.

It is true that Livingston County has an unbelievable amount of sprawl, but it's nothing compared to what we've seen in the south in the last 30 years.

I hope you did not take my rebuttal to mean that I was saying Livingston was experiencing unbeliveable sprawl. Quite honestly I had never heard of it until I read it here. The point I was making though was that Livingston is positioned to Detroit pretty much in the same way the fast growing counties of Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Texas and North Carolina are positioned to their respective states major metros. I am sure that some of Livingston's growth is due to people moving further out to escape a continually urbanizing neighboring county.

I am sure it is a great place to live or it would not be growing.

It's no surprise to any of us that most of the population growth is occuring in the south and west. There is a major population shift going on in the country that has not been seen in a few generations. If you and I live long enough, we may one day see the trend shift back the other way. I just hope that some southerner will not call these newly growing northern counties "podunk." It's so not the typical gentile southern way. :D

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I actually was referring to the county being podunk prior to suburbanization. Meaning the podunk county of 28,000 was eaten alive by sprawl. For instance, I would call Butts County podunk right now, but as sprawl continues to spread throughout the Atlanta area it will be consumed by suburbanization.

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North Carolina's urban regions are getting big fast

Source US Bureau of the Census

July 1, 2005

Metropolitan Combined Statistical Area

Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisbury, NC-SC

Anson County 25,499

Cabarrus County 150,244

Chester County, SC 33,228

Cleveland County 98,288

Gaston County 196,137

Iredell County 140,924

Lancaster County, SC 63,113

Lincoln County 69,851

Mecklenburg County 796,372

Rowan County 135,099

Stanly County 58,964

Union County 162,929

York County, SC 190,097

Total 2,120,745

Raleigh-Durham-Cary, NC

Wake County 748,815

Person County 37,217

Franklin County 54,429

Durham County 242,582

Orange County 118,386

Johnston County 146,437

Harnett County 103,692

Chatham County 58,002

Lee County 55,704

Moore County 81,685

Total 1,646,949

Greensboro--Winston-Salem--High Point, NC

Alamance County 140,533

Davidson County 154,623

Davie County 39,136

Forsyth County 325,967

Guilford County 443,519

Randolph County 138,367

Rockingham County 92,614

Surry County 72,601

Stokes County 45,858

Yadkin County 37,668

Total 1,490,886

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RELEASED THURSDAY, MARCH 16, 2006

Population Estimates for the 100 U.S. Counties with the Largest Numerical Increase from July 1, 2004 to July 1, 2005 US Bureau of the Census

Rank_County_ Population est. 2005_July 1, 2005 _July 1, 2004 _Number Percent

1 Maricopa County Arizona 3,635,528 _3,498,587 _136,941 _3.9

2 Riverside County California 1,946,419 _1,869,465 _76,954_ 4.1

3 Clark County Nevada 1,710,551 _1,648,524 _62,027 _3.8

4 Harris County Texas 3,693,050 _3,641,114 _51,936 _1.4

5 San Bernardino County California 1,963,535 _1,916,418 _47,117 _2.5

6 Tarrant County Texas 1,620,479 _1,587,019 _33,460 _2.1

7 Orange County Florida 1,023,023 _989,873 _33,150 _3.3

8 Hillsborough County Florida 1,132,152 _1,100,333 _31,819 _2.9

9 Collin County Texas 659,457 _628,426 _31,031 _4.9

10 Lee County Florida 544,758 _514,923 _29,835 _5.8

11 Wake County North Carolina 748,815 _719,733 _29,082 _4.0

12 Bexar County Texas 1,518,370 _1,492,361 _26,009 _1.7

13 Gwinnett County Georgia 726,273 _700,577 _25,696 _3.7

14 Will County Illinois 642,813 _617,494 _25,319 _4.1

15 Mecklenburg County North Carolina 796,372 _771,573 _24,799 _3.2

16 Broward County Florida 1,777,638 _1,753,000 _24,638 _1.4

17 Palm Beach County Florida 1,268,548 _1,244,189 _24,359 _2.0

18 Denton County Texas 554,642 _530,982 _23,660 _4.5

19 Kern County California 756,825 _734,077 _22,748 _3.1

20 Fort Bend County Texas 463,650 _442,389 _21,261 _4.8

21 Pasco County Florida 429,065 _408,046 _21,019 _5.2

22 Hidalgo County Texas 678,275 _657,310 _20,965 _3.2

23 Travis County Texas 888,185 _868,873 _19,312 _2.2

24 Polk County Florida 542,912 _524,286 _18,626 _3.6

25 Pima County Arizona 924,786 _906,540 _18,246 _2.0

26 Los Angeles County California 9,935,475 _9,917,331 _18,144 _0.2

27 Miami-Dade County Florida 2,376,014 _2,358,714 _17,300 _0.7

28 Santa Clara County California 1,699,052 _1,681,980 _17,072 _1.0

29 Loudoun County Virginia 255,518 _239,325 _16,193 _6.8

30 Montgomery County Texas 378,033 _362,192 _15,841 _4.4

31 King County Washington 1,793,583 _1,777,746 1_5,837 _0.9

32 Williamson County Texas 333,457 _318,149 _15,308 _4.8

33 Lake County Florida 277,035 _261,845 _15,190 _5.8

34 San Joaquin County California 664,116 _649,241 _14,875 _2.3

35 Pinal County Arizona 229,549 _214,704 _14,845 _6.9

36 Dallas County Texas 2,305,454 _2,291,071 _14,383 _0.6

37 St. Lucie County Florida 241,305 _227,110 1_4,195 _6.3

38 Salt Lake County Utah 948,172 _934,838 _13,334 _1.4

39 Brevard County Florida 531,250 _518,812 _12,438 _2.4

40 Washington County Oregon 499,794 _487,548 _12,246 _2.5

41 Ada County Idaho 344,727 _332,545 _12,182 _3.7

42 Prince William County Virginia 348,588 _336,525 _12,063 _3.6

43 Sacramento County California 1,363,482 _1,351,428 _12,054 _0.9

44 Fresno County California 877,584 _865,620 _11,964 _1.4

45 Douglas County Colorado 249,416 _237,551 _11,865 _5.0

46 Snohomish County Washington 655,944 _644,205 _11,739 _1.8

47 Marion County Florida 303,442 _291,768 _11,674 _4.0

48 Osceola County Florida 231,578 _220,127 _11,451 _5.2

49 Clark County Washington 403,766 _392,364 _11,402 _2.9

50 Adams County Colorado 399,426 _388,064 _11,362 _2.9

51 Volusia County Florida 490,055 _478,951 _11,104 _2.3

52 Bernalillo County New Mexico 603,562 _592,538 _11,024 _1.9

53 Hamilton County Indiana 240,685 _229,840 _10,845 _4.7

54 Manatee County Florida 306,779 _295,974 _10,805 _3.7

55 Placer County California 317,028 _306,305 _10,723 _3.5

56 Collier County Florida 307,242 _296,675 _10,567 _3.6

57 Sarasota County Florida 366,256 _355,722 _10,534 _3.0

58 Seminole County Florida 401,619 _391,241 _10,378 _2.7

59 Contra Costa County California 1,017,787 _1,007,606 _10,181 _1.0

60 Tulare County California 410,874 _400,952 _9,922 _2.5

61 Fulton County Georgia 915,623 _905,802 _9,821 _1.1

62 Lake County Illinois 702,682 _692,869 _9,813 _1.4

63 Johnson County Kansas 506,562 _496,892 _9,670 _1.9

64 Utah County Utah 443,738 _434,114 _9,624 _2.2

65 St. Charles County Missouri 329,940 _320,459 _9,481 _3.0

66 Cherokee County Georgia 184,211 _174,851 _9,360 _5.4

67 Horry County South Carolina 226,992 _217,635 _9,357 _4.3

68 Kane County Illinois 482,113 _472,761 _9,352 _2.0

69 Washoe County Nevada 389,872 _380,612 _9,260 _2.4

70 Union County North Carolina 162,929 _153,720 _9,209 _6.0

71 Cobb County Georgia 663,818 _654,649 _9,169 _1.4

72 Weld County Colorado 228,943 _219,961 _8,982 _4.1

73 El Paso County Texas 721,598 _712,617 _8,981 _1.3

73 Henry County Georgia 167,848 _158,939 _8,909 _5.6

75 St. Johns County Florida 161,525 _152,724 _8,801 _5.8

76 Rutherford County Tennessee 218,292 _209,739 _8,553 _4.1

77 Washington County Utah 118,885 _110,425 _8,460 _7.7

78 Forsyth County Georgia 140,393 _131,950 _8,443 _6.4

79 Pierce County Washington 753,787 _745,778 _8,009 _1.1

80 Chester County Pennsylvania 474,027 _466,043 _7,984 _1.7

81 Yavapai County Arizona 198,701 _190,737 _7,964 _4.2

82 Stanislaus County California 505,505 _497,599 _7,906 _1.6

83 Hernando County Florida 158,409 _150,540 _7,869 _5.2

84 El Paso County Colorado 565,582 _557,752 _7,830 _1.4

85 York County Pennsylvania 408,801 _401,063 _7,738 _1.9

86 McHenry County Illinois 303,990 _296,260 _7,730 _2.6

87 Mohave County Arizona 187,200 _179,563 _7,637 _4.3

88 Brazoria County Texas 278,484 _270,870 _7,614 _2.8

89 Delaware County Ohio 150,268 _142,747 _7,521 _5.3

90 Cameron County Texas 378,311 _370,829 _7,482 _2.0

91 Flagler County Florida 76,410 _69,016 _7,394 _10.7

92 Benton County Arkansas 186,938 _179,609 _7,329 _4.1

92 Polk County Iowa 401,006 _394,031 _6,975 _1.8

94 Warren County Ohio 196,622 _189,743 _6,879 _3.6

95 Duval County Florida 826,436 _819,623 _6,813 _0.8

96 Kendall County Illinois 79,514 _72,704 _6,810 _9.4

97 Davis County Utah 268,187 _261,395 _6,792 _2.6

98 Deschutes County Oregon 141,382 _134,618 _6,764 _5.0

99 Arapahoe County Colorado _529,090 _522,346 _6,744 _1.3

100 Canyon County Idaho 164,593 _157,883 _6,710 _4.2

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Podunk - adj. - A small isolated town, region, or place that is regarded as unimportant.

They're podunk because they went from having a small rural population 30 years ago to having thousands of acres of suburban sprawl today.

For instance, Forsyth County had 27,958 people in 1980. Today it is estimated to have 140,393.

In 1980, Livingston County had a population of 100,289. Today it has 181,517. Livingston County has only grown by about 81% in the last 25 years, while Forsyth County has grown by 402% in that same period. It is true that Livingston County has an unbelievable amount of sprawl, but it's nothing compared to what we've seen in the south in the last 30 years.

I guess this means the sprawl in Forsyth county is just newer. Where is Livingston County anyway?

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^ Michigan. Between Lansing and Detroit. It's certainly a different type of sprawl though. In Michigan, counties like Wayne county lose massive percentage points every year with people moving to other counties nearby while in Atlanta (since we are talking about Forsyth) people are moving in from out of state. People moving down to Atlanta generally have more money than people moving out of Detroit because of the sale of their home in a market like New York City. The sprawl becomes more McMansion based.

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I was surprised to see 5 Minnesota counties in the map, and one county in Wisconsin associated with Minneapolis/St. Paul growth.

It just shows how fast MSP is sprawling outward into the great oblivion. It's so weird to think that the city I once lived has grown from 3,000 in 1990 to around 14,000 today. It's hardly recognizable.

One county, Sherburne, is not associated with MSP, but with St. Cloud, another sprawl conglomerate located NW of the Twin Cities.

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Actually, Livingston County is gaining population not from the city of Detroit, but from the inner-ring suburbs. The housing currently going up in Livingston County (particularly in the Brighton Lake area) is about as McMansionized as they come. The housing costs are lower than the rest of the country, but that's only because the housing costs in most areas of the country are over-inflated. Also, the lower costs means you get more for your money. Granted, there are quite a few homes in the $1 million range.

This is the type of housing that is common in Livingston County:

026007208.jpg

These semi-three story buildings are popular among developers.

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^ Is there any significant migration out of the inner-ring suburbs? I thought those areas were the most stable, as the inner-city wasn't.

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It's no surprise to any of us that most of the population growth is occuring in the south and west. There is a major population shift going on in the country that has not been seen in a few generations. If you and I live long enough, we may one day see the trend shift back the other way. I just hope that some southerner will not call these newly growing northern counties "podunk." It's so not the typical gentile southern way. :D

There are "podunk counties" everywhere in the US. I could name a few near here as well (Ionia, Newaygo, Montcalm)

But seriously the sprawlin the south has to be curbed before it gets out of hand for one thing ;) The exodus to the south isn't young professionals anyway, its old retired pensioneers who want to get away and not have to pay for heating :P

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The inner-ring suburbs are relatively stable, however they were built out decades ago. Detroit's oldest suburbs date back to the 1920's when cities like Highland Park, Lincoln Park, Hamtramck, River Rouge, and Grosse Pointe were first developed. By the 40's and 50's, much of the rest of the inner-ring was developed. In the 60's and 70's most of the inner-ring cities reached their peak population. In the 80's and 90's their populations started dropping due to the aging population and shrinking household size. For instance, in 1970, the suburb of Lincoln Park had 53,000 people in 5.8 sq. mi. The population density was just over 9,100 people per sq. mi. By 2000, the population had fallen to just 40,000, or just under 6,900 people per sq. mi. Ironically, Lincoln Park had 16,221 households in 1970 and 16,204 households in 2000. So despite losing nearly 13,000 people, the number of households remained the same. The average household size in 1970 was 3.27, while in 2000 it was only 2.47. In recent years many of the inner-ring suburbs have slowed and even reversed their population-loss. Hamtramck which had 56,000 people in its 2.2 sq. mi. boundaries in 1930 saw its population drop to just over 18,000 in 1990. However by 2000, the population had jumped to 23,000. (An increase of more than 25%) The reason for the surge in population is that it has become a haven for immigrants.

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Interesting comparison - Atlanta's inner ring suburbs started much earlier, in the 1890's. Therefore, what is commonly reffered to as the 'core' of Atlanta, is primarily mixed use inner ring suburbs scattered along major street corridors. Those were stable until the 1950's, when the Atlanta metro began to grow at the pace we know now. Due to the extensive living choices, not to mention white flight, the inner-ring suburbs started declining in population in the 1960's, & became generally lower income neighborhoods through the 1970's. Since the 1980's, some of the more prominant inner-ring suburbs began gentrification, Inman Park, Virginia Highlands, Grant Park & now most of the northern, easter, & southeastern (including a few that are now just redeveloping) are considered prime intown property. The transformation is now occuring in the west & south sides, though, particularly the southern West End neighborhood was already an established Black middle class neighborhood.

Hence - population growth is still stable, as the family per unit ratio has decreased as now the typical homeowner is a 30's couple, but in the past 5 years infill has finally picked up pace - increasing the population.

Where there is now population decline is the post WWII suburbs from the 1950's, as those are now being transformed into a greater mix of races, particularly new immigrants. That type of housing stock, through the 1970's is what is in plentiful amounts & is right now the most affordable - Dekalb, Clayton, Cobb counties.

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I'm not talking about street-car suburbs or satellite cities, I'm talking about actual suburbs with subdivisions and street after street of similar-looking housing. The Grosse Pointes had been a popular summer destination for Detroit's elite since the mid-1800's, but it wasn't until the 1920's that they started developing as a true suburb. Dearborn was first settled in the mid 1700's, but it wasn't until the 1920's that it actually started developing en masse. There are actually a lot of cities surrounding Detroit that have a history prior to being a suburb of Detroit. For instance, my city was first settled in the 1820's and grew up independently over 14 miles south of Detroit. However, by the 1940's, Detroit's suburban sprawl had reached it, and the city went from having about 4,000 in the 1920's to having over 15,000 by the 1950's.

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I'm not talking about street-car suburbs or satellite cities, I'm talking about actual suburbs with subdivisions and street after street of similar-looking housing. The Grosse Pointes had been a popular summer destination for Detroit's elite since the mid-1800's, but it wasn't until the 1920's that they started developing as a true suburb. Dearborn was first settled in the mid 1700's, but it wasn't until the 1920's that it actually started developing en masse. There are actually a lot of cities surrounding Detroit that have a history prior to being a suburb of Detroit. For instance, my city was first settled in the 1820's and grew up independently over 14 miles south of Detroit. However, by the 1940's, Detroit's suburban sprawl had reached it, and the city went from having about 4,000 in the 1920's to having over 15,000 by the 1950's.

Very true. There are myriad cities that are looked upon now as little more than suburbs, but that were vibrant cities in their own right long before the bigger metropolis next door came calling. In northeastern Illinois alone, there are Joliet, Waukegan, Aurora, Elgin, the Tri-Cities on the Fox River in between Aurora and Elgin, DeKalb, and Kankakee. Most of these cities, like St. Charles, are not much younger than Chicago itself.

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I'm not talking about street-car suburbs or satellite cities, I'm talking about actual suburbs with subdivisions and street after street of similar-looking housing. The Grosse Pointes had been a popular summer destination for Detroit's elite since the mid-1800's, but it wasn't until the 1920's that they started developing as a true suburb. Dearborn was first settled in the mid 1700's, but it wasn't until the 1920's that it actually started developing en masse. There are actually a lot of cities surrounding Detroit that have a history prior to being a suburb of Detroit. For instance, my city was first settled in the 1820's and grew up independently over 14 miles south of Detroit. However, by the 1940's, Detroit's suburban sprawl had reached it, and the city went from having about 4,000 in the 1920's to having over 15,000 by the 1950's.

I'm speaking of inner-ring suburban neighborhoods that are directly adjacent to downtown or near downtown. In most cases these are streetcar suburbs - within 2 to 5 miles surrounding downtown Atlanta. The majority of 'intown' Atlanta are inner-ring suburban neighborhoods, not traditional urban street grid neighborhoods.

Sorry you got the wrong impression, I wasn't reffering to Marietta, Roswell, Lawrenceville, etc. which are towns established near the same time as Atlanta & eventually became suburbs by the 1950's through 1970's, roughly 15 to 20 miles out of Atlanta. In fact the 1950's suburbs that I was reffering to that are in some levels of decline or transition are in between Atlanta & these suburban towns, as it was post-WWII that these towns became commuter towns.

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So you are talking about early suburbs that were eventually annexed by Atlanta? I was referring to the suburbs that are currently outside of Detroit's boundaries, which are basically about 8 to 10 miles from downtown. There are a few neighborhoods in Detroit that were once independent cities and villages, but I wouldn't call them suburbs. For instance, Delray in Southwest Detroit was incorporated as a village in 1836, but was absorbed by Detroit in 1906.

However, when a suburb was incorporated doesn't reflect the age of its housing units. For instance, Metro Atlanta doesn't have a single county subdivision where the median age of housing dates from before 1960. The East Point county-subdivision has the oldest, where the median age of the housing is 42 years old. On the other hand, Detroit has 77 county-subdivisions where the median age of the housing dates back to before 1960. There are four suburbs of Detroit where the median age of the housing is about 67 years. That means that half the housing is older than 67 years old and half the housing is newer than 67 years old.

That's not a bad thing, it just shows you how much of Atlanta was built in recent decades and how much of Detroit was built in the early 1900's.

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Then I understand your basis, that the municipal boundary qualifies as a division between city / suburb? Technically I agree with you, but due to inconsistencies in how each city is able to annex, I rarely use the boundary as a descriptor. Rather describing the deliniations based on housing style: urban (typically pre-1900 dense single family / post WWII mixed use dense multi-family units

inner-ring suburban (typically pre-WWII single family

suburban (post WWII single family but pre 1980's sprawl era)

outer suburban / exurban (varies)

Within the city limits of Atlanta, some urban residential areas exist, but the city is largely composed of what I would consider inner-ring neighborhoods as well as suburban 1950's - 1960's neighborhoods. From my understanding, some corporate bodies accurately reflect the understood view of 'the city', but Atlanta's like most sunbelt cities this is not the case. Though Atlanta hasn't profitied from annexation that much, the city did annex enough in the first half of the century that what would be typical suburban neighborhoods are found in the city. This would even include a few independant towns & villages that were annexed (Edgewood, East Atlanta, Buckhead).

As for your final comment, though I'm not sure it was directed to any of my intended thoughts - but still appreciated, you are of course correct. Atlanta was very much still a small city in 1900. 1900 being more or less a benchmark year in determining what is 'urban'. This is the antithesis of what the sunbelt city is, though sprawl or post-modern suburbanism is rampant in most cities, the greatest distinction is the occurance of an urban core. Atlanta lacks a large urban core, rather the urban core of a city of 100k in 1900 (which is near the population for Atlanta's modern 'urban core') surrounded by at least 2 million living in suburban neighborhoods & even more living in some recent suburban / exurban arrangement.

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but due to inconsistencies in how each city is able to annex, I rarely use the boundary as a descriptor.

Which the Census Bureau finally wised up to in 2000. Until then, urban areas included entire municipalities, whatever density their city limits encompassed. As of 2000, they adjusted the method to only consist of actual urban land, whether it lies within city limits or not. As a result, for example, only about 30-40% of the land area of the city of Salt Lake City is included in the Salt Lake City urban area.

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