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cloudship

Train between Worcester and Providence

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This is just an idea I am throwing out there - no one (to my knowledge) has thought about this at all or said anything about this. And I have not thought it through - I am just looking for opinions.

Do you think that there would be enough traffic generate between Providence and Worcester? I know that there are a number of people who commute from Worcester to Providence every day, and even more who commute from souther Worcester County. IF the trackage was upgraded, do you think there would be enough passengers to make a system worth it?

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I think T.F. Green to Worcester (via Providence) could be viable. No one (in so far as anyone who can do anything about it) is talking about it, but it is something that has come up here in the past.

There would also be good traffic from points between the two cities to each city. But when I say good, I don't know if there's enough to justify rail. There is a condo boom happening in Woonsocket, and the people who live there would work in either city easily.

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Maybe if 146 starts to get strained, but I travel pretty regularly between Providence and Worcester at all times of the day and never hit any heavy traffic.

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Of course I've heard of the Providence & Worcester Railroad, but is there actually train service/rail system between the two cities? If there is, then what is the path that this system takes?

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its an interesting idea

what kind of distance is it between worcester and woonsocket? i understand it is quite low density between worcester and woonsocket

i think a tf green or kingston to woonsocket train would be great. the MBTA could then cut back to providence where one would transfer between the MBTA rail and RIPTA rail. another option might be that the MBTA worcester line could be extended south from worcester to providence (and keep the MBTA attleboro line running into wickford/kingston). If RIPTA ran into Worcester as part of that RIPTA rail line that might balance out the service MBTA provides into Rhode Island.

Anyone know anything about the track conditions on the rail line?

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Of course I've heard of the Providence & Worcester Railroad, but is there actually train service/rail system between the two cities? If there is, then what is the path that this system takes?

If you mean what path the PWRR takes, it's on their site:

http://www.pwrr.com/PWmap2.html

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This is definitely do-able, the trackage from Providence to Worcester is probably in the best shape of all our freight lines.

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I know there is a western by-pass of Boston so that trains can reach northern New England from the south and not be interupted by the N-S gap in Boston. I wonder if trains could run from Providence to Worcester, then onto Portsmouth and Portland. Amtrak customers whose destination is north of Boston could change trains (within one station, not a crosstown transfer as in Boston) in Providence for service to northern New England. This could add ridership to the local PVD-WOR service making it more viable.

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It is reachable, but I don't think it is a particularly direct route. It would probably be easier to simply go through Springfield to Worcester than through Providence.

I know that the lower portion of the Providence and Worcester runs on the NorthEast Corridor, but where does that stop and their own tracks start? I onften thought they were not necessarily the best tracks, though not the worst, either. The real limit is that they are single tracked.

I was actually thinking of the P&W running something themselves. While the area south of Worceser isn't that built up yet, it is growing. And it is an area that could use some decent commuting options besides roads.

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I know that the lower portion of the Providence and Worcester runs on the NorthEast Corridor, but where does that stop and their own tracks start? I onften thought they were not necessarily the best tracks, though not the worst, either. The real limit is that they are single tracked.

You can see the Y-junction where the P&W splits off the mainline on this map. It's in Pawtucket/Central Falls, RI just north of the Pawtucket/Central Falls train station which should hopefully be re-opening to commuter rail. So PVD-WOR service could stop in Pawtucket as well.

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Stations???:

Kingston

Wickford Junction

East Greenwich

TF Green Airport/Warwick

Providence

Pawtucket/Central Falls

Cumberland

Lincoln

Manville

Woonsocket

Possible extension to:

Worcester

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You can see the Y-junction where the P&W splits off the mainline on this map. It's in Pawtucket/Central Falls, RI just north of the Pawtucket/Central Falls train station which should hopefully be re-opening to commuter rail. So PVD-WOR service could stop in Pawtucket as well.

That junction is called the Valley Falls switch. This is the beginning of the one track mainline to Worcester. Off of this line was the Wrenthem line and off of that the Franklin line. Both of the latter lines are long gone, but the ROW's are still there. There has been some interest in bringing back the Franklin line, but that is a long way off.

IMHO I think Prov-Worc would be viable. There is enough daily business between these cities and it would give central Mass an alternative to connect to Amtrak rather than go thru Boston. TF Green would also be possible with thru trains rather than connections. College students from Worc would find there way here and possible PP shoppers would use it.

FYI; the "State of Maine" train went thru Prov and Worc continuing on track that for the most part is no longer there to Portland. This train and Prov-Worc commuter trains ended in 1953. A bus that ran on rails continued 5 times a day M-F to Worc until 1956.

The Prov-Worc service would be a perfect compliment to the Taunton-Wickford trains I have proposed earlier on another thread. Independent diesel cars could do this as light rail service(similar to Ottawa) on frequent 20 minute headways. Add that to East Bay service thru the old train tunnel and this would be a great place to live without needing a car. Well, we can dream.

Mark

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You know, if the legalities of everything were to work out (running over the NorthEast corridor, I don't know if the P&W has rights to run passenger service over that) I think by connecting Worcester with TF Green, you could get alot more people flying through TF Green AND more people going between the two cities.

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You know, if the legalities of everything were to work out (running over the NorthEast corridor, I don't know if the P&W has rights to run passenger service over that) I think by connecting Worcester with TF Green, you could get alot more people flying through TF Green AND more people going between the two cities.

What kind of passenger service does the Worcester Airport have? Would it not want this sort of connection because then Providence would be more competition, or is it small and local enough that they wouldn't really care?

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What kind of passenger service does the Worcester Airport have? Would it not want this sort of connection because then Providence would be more competition, or is it small and local enough that they wouldn't really care?

Worcester Airport is tiny and barely open. MassPort is looking more towards Manchester and T.F. Green as overflow for Logan than they are to Worcester. It would help Worcester to have a direct connection to T.F. Green since that is the focus of expansion.

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Worcester Airport is tiny and barely open. MassPort is looking more towards Manchester and T.F. Green as overflow for Logan than they are to Worcester. It would help Worcester to have a direct connection to T.F. Green since that is the focus of expansion.

MassPort no longer has a need for regional airports to handle the overflow. They are aggressively advertising for pax to return to Logan now that the "Big Dig" is done and the Ted Williams tunnel are open. They have a heavy overhead and in fact are increasing prices all around the airport. Landings fees are going up for airlines and parking fees are up. BOS was the only airport in New England to have a pax increase in January (5.5%). All the regionals (PVD, MHT, BDL) were down 3-4% in the same period. Rail connections to PVD will help and service to Worcester would give us a leg up in compitition with Logan and Bradley (which advertises heavily in Worcester).

Worcester has but one airline. Weather conditions at Worcester are the worst in New England. Who in the world would put an airport 1000 feet high that can be fogged in at any time of the year. This led to their downfall as a regional airport.

Mark

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BOS was the only airport in New England to have a pax increase in January (5.5%).

Mark

What is a pax? I'm thinking a take-off/landing fee, or a passenger fee. By the way, are you the pilot I was talking about in another post who posted some photos of the area last year from a plane?

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What is a pax? I'm thinking a take-off/landing fee, or a passenger fee. By the way, are you the pilot I was talking about in another post who posted some photos of the area last year from a plane?

Sorry, not me.

Mark

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Believe it or not, the weather was not actually a big concern for flights landing in Worcester getting canceled, at least not the Worcester weather. There simply was not enough people flying to Worcester, so that if they were short a plane or had to cancel a leg, they would cancel teh Worcester flight, and use that plane.

As for Worcester Airport, it depends upon who you ask. The city council is all for the airport, but much of the city residents would be more than thrilled if they could simply have a conveninet connection to TF Green and close ORH for good. I personally love the airport, but I think I may be in the minority.

Worcester Airport's just in a lousy location. If it was a little more east, closer to the highway, it would do better.

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Maybe if 146 starts to get strained, but I travel pretty regularly between Providence and Worcester at all times of the day and never hit any heavy traffic.

How long does it take to get there?

Urb

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I found this while looking for info about the proposal for a train between Worcester and New London that was in the paper yesterday.

http://www.blackstonedaily.com/trains.htm.

I was thinking about this, and I am wondering - could Worcester become a rail hub of New England? Seriously - New England has as one of it's resources a great system of smaller cities and communities, which are really able to coexist outside of dependence upon a Major city (even though we do have one). It is perhaps one of the few places inteh US where such a rail network might work. Worcester would be a great hub for that kind of srvice - connecting Springfield, Hartford, Providence, Boston, Portland, and Manchester and all the little cities in between.

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I was thinking about this, and I am wondering - could Worcester become a rail hub of New England? Seriously...

I've wondered this in the past too. There are other people on this board who are orders of magnitude more knowledgable about trains and rail than I am, but I would think Providence would be just as well situated for such a central role, perhaps even better since TF Green would be linked as well.

I've been shocked this week to hear questions of "Well, what about boosting rail transit?" in mainstream media like NPR, CNN, newspaper, and the like in discussions about possible solutions to high gas prices. That doesn't happen often...

- Garris

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I've wondered this in the past too. There are other people on this board who are orders of magnitude more knowledgable about trains and rail than I am, but I would think Providence would be just as well situated for such a central role, perhaps even better since TF Green would be linked as well.

I've been shocked this week to hear questions of "Well, what about boosting rail transit?" in mainstream media like NPR, CNN, newspaper, and the like in discussions about possible solutions to high gas prices. That doesn't happen often...

- Garris

Do you really think Providence could be the transit hub? I dont see a conection to N. New England the way boston has, or Worchester could have.

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