Demonbreun/Shoney's property

[it's just dave]

It looks like it's official. Houston's Lionstone has closed on the property at the Music Row Roundabout. I wasn't aware that Lionstone owns West End's 2525 Building, but I think that might speak volumes about what ultimately goes there. Looks like Reba finally decided to sell and turn it over to a development company who can truly place something meaningful on this prime collection of land. It should be very interesting to see this plan develop. I hope it's truly mixed-use with a healthy dose of retail involved. But whatever it turns out to be, it'll be an excellent "connector" between Midtown and the Gulch.

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cf...s&news_id=48583

[jice]

This is good to hear. I like how the 2525 turned out.

It's also good to hear they plan to address the parking issue in that area. I know the times i've been out on the Row... you can never find a place to park in that lot across the street... I usually end up going somewhere down 17th and walking.

[ATLBrain]

This is good to hear. I like how the 2525 turned out.

Lionstone didn't develop 2525. They bought it from Hines Properties, which developed it with Vandy, who owns the land.

BTW: I do not like the parking lot in front of 2525 West End. It's typical of the crappy projects that Vandy does around there... they still don't understand the importance of the pedestrian access. That corner at Elliston and W.E. and 25th is beyond hope for pedestrians. I give my buddy at Vandy lots of grief about that sort of stuff... b/c it fall on his department to manage their properties. He acknowledges the design deficiencies, but basically says that everything is approved by a committee. I can only imagine that the members of that committee are 60-something doctors and lawyers who need lots of convenient space for their jags and mercedes. Parking garages are just too tricky to maneuver for them... LOL.

EDIT: Of course, I'm not forgetting that Metro Codes are (were) so stupid at the time that they require(d) X-number of parking spaces per sq. ft. of retail. I hope they have changed that... as I believe I've heard.

[eusebius]

i completely agree with your synopsis of the parking at 2525. I was sitting in front of Bread & Co the other day thinking "this would be great as a wide sidewalk-cafe area". I mean -- it's right in front of Centennial (great views of the Parthenon). Why in the world did they put 2 skimpy rows of parking right up front??? Sure would have been nice to make it pedestrian-centric. I hope they do that at the Roundabout area

[barakat]

Just an 'amen' re: the parking lot fronting West End at the 2525 building. It's pitiful planning. I always park in the garage while people battle for a spot 'out front'. Either the building should have been a little closer to the street, or the lot area should have been a large semi-public promenade/sidewalk. I'll never understand it.

[Lukin]

I'm gonna have to concur with everyone else about the parking. Just imagine how that buidling would be with those several restaurants and starbucks right on a wide sidewalk. So much pedestrian potential wasted for this otherwise great looking building. Although I do have to admit, I always try to find a spot out front first

[jice]

OK so the parking in front does kinda suck lol. I have to admit I don't like having to walk across a parking lot to get to the area where the restaurants n stuff are. But I mean... come on... we are talking about West End here. The area kinda has a mixed feel to it... pedestrian and vehicular traffic combined... which I kinda like (the feel that is), to tell ya the truth.

I agree the parking on that building could have been better designed, though.

[jdavidf]

I agree the parking on that building could have been better designed, though.

Once in a while, we'll get a wild hair and drive through the front parking area there - but I never feel exactly safe. I'm always worried somebody will fly around the corner without looking, back out of spot with looking or start a war over the single hard-to-get-into spot that might just materialize.

I kind of enjoy the walk from the garage to whereever it is I'm going anyway.. God knows I can use the little bit of exercise I get then!

[it's just dave]

I knew Hines developed that property and do agree with everyone else about the parking. I'm guilty of looking for the ever-elusive spot out front as well, but generally end up in the garage. It doesn't appear to be impossible for a future retro-fit to an outdoor greenspace/gathering area, but I won't hold my breath.

It's a unique opp on Demonbreun. Hope they don't blow it.

[NewTowner]

The parking strip in front of 2525 is indeed ridiculous.

But for those of us who love looking for that spot out front, I guess we should remember: the on-street parking which makes a healthy street/sidewalk connection provides early-bird luck-out parking nearly as well as the skimpy parking strand which everyone universally reviles.

Luckily, that parking lot isn't too big that the situation couldn't be saved by turning it into a wide promenade with trees and sitting areas and stuff. I guess we all know that, since it has already been referred to on several occastions, but it makes me feel better to say outright that I believe--one day--those "views to the Parthenon" won't be quite so wasted.

[Lukin]

Luckily, that parking lot isn't too big that the situation couldn't be saved by turning it into a wide promenade with trees and sitting areas and stuff. I guess we all know that, since it has already been referred to on several occastions, but it makes me feel better to say outright that I believe--one day--those "views to the Parthenon" won't be quite so wasted.

Wait, has this idea actually been officially mentioned or alluded to somewhere? Or is it just hopeful speculation? I'd never even thought about the possibility of that parking lot being turned into some sort of park/promenade type area - but wow, that's such a great idea!

[smeagolsfree]

I thought I posted this earlier and my post disappeared.

Anyway, I think they will have to address the parking issues at this location before they can do anything major. If they do not, then there will be a disruption in the parking flow for the businesses on Demonbreun. It was stated in the article that they felt that if they didn't address the parking situation then they would have failed with the project. This is a big organization and I look for good things to come from this development and work to start very soon. This is just speculation, but I would bet they would move forward with some type of parking structure first, lets say close to where the Shoneys is now. The parking issue will have to be solved for the hotel and the merchants, so that general area would be a logical place for a parking structure. Then it could be hidden with the mixed use development sitting in front. I guess that is what I would do. I dont think it will be free parking any longer though.

[Lexy]

Just an 'amen' re: the parking lot fronting West End at the 2525 building. It's pitiful planning. I always park in the garage while people battle for a spot 'out front'. Either the building should have been a little closer to the street, or the lot area should have been a large semi-public promenade/sidewalk. I'll never understand it.

Word! on the parking issues at 2525, but otherwise I am anxious to see what goes on this property in the future. Hopefully it will integrate well with the bars and boutiques across the road.

[Hankster]

This is indeed good news for the Music Row area. This is truly a very prime piece of property on Demonbreum. One thing's for sure. Any company that spends $9.15 Million on a 3 acre piece of property is going to put something huge on it. It will really be interesting to see what "develops".

[fieldmarshaldj]

This is indeed good news for the Music Row area. This is truly a very prime piece of property on Demonbreum. One thing's for sure. Any company that spends $9.15 Million on a 3 acre piece of property is going to put something huge on it. It will really be interesting to see what "develops".

Motel 6, here we come !

[NewTowner]

I just hope the Lionstuff people build better than the styrofoam facades on the opposite side of Demonbreun. Some durable materials would add a touch of much-needed dignity to what otherwise is a mostly Cheez X-Treme set of toy bars. Brick, a bit of stone, some steel, and some glass would help the transition between Midtown and the Gulch, I think.

The patio / "public space" combo corner at Dan McGuinness looks like it was designed by a blind person given nothing but a bag of marbles with which to do his or her measuring.

This street could be rad. I have faith that it will be, but mostly because I am a relentless optimist.

[Lexy]

Motel 6, here we come !

LMAO!!! At least it would be a nice one.

[smeagolsfree]

just hope the Lionstuff people build better than the styrofoam facades on the opposite side of Demonbreun. Some durable materials would add a touch of much-needed dignity to what otherwise is a mostly Cheez X-Treme set of toy bars. Brick, a bit of stone, some steel, and some glass would help the transition between Midtown and the Gulch, I think.

The patio / "public space" combo corner at Dan McGuinness looks like it was designed by a blind person given nothing but a bag of marbles with which to do his or her measuring.

This street could be rad. I have faith that it will be, but mostly because I am a relentless optimist.

We can always replace them with the Cheez X-Treme tourist shops that were there before and put the thermal plant back on the river, and raise every building in town and rebuild them to meet your vision of architecture. Besides, that's a slam against blind people.

Remember that money is an issue many times and people have to build within their means. Normally the better looking the building material is, the more expensive. Not everyone has the same vision of design that you have and for that matter the majority of the public really doesn't care. Just remember when you get to start designing buildings that get built, you will have to compromise your vision in exchange for a paycheck. I hope you get the opportunity to design a project you like and to see it built, but in the meantime you may want to tone it down a little and not be as much of a critic. We all have our issues and sometimes we have to just grin and bear it.

[it's just dave]

I just have to ask why I don't feel so inclined to post anymore. Nothing like getting your butt shot out of the sky each time to try to like something.

Oh well, it's springtime, I can always go plant something. I miss you guys.

[downtown cliff]

We can always replace them with the Cheez X-Treme tourist shops that were there before and put the thermal plant back on the river, and raise every building in town and rebuild them to meet your vision of architecture. Besides, that's a slam against blind people.

Remember that money is an issue many times and people have to build within their means. Normally the better looking the building material is, the more expensive. Not everyone has the same vision of design that you have and for that matter the majority of the public really doesn't care. Just remember when you get to start designing buildings that get built, you will have to compromise your vision in exchange for a paycheck. I hope you get the opportunity to design a project you like and to see it built, but in the meantime you may want to tone it down a little and not be as much of a critic. We all have our issues and sometimes we have to just grin and bear it.

Um, I thought a major point of this forum is to share our opinions on design. We all know, or should know, about the real world and its limitations, but we can still express our opinion on how things would look in our ideal world. Gotta dream, baby.

[Jeeper12]

We can always replace them with the Cheez X-Treme tourist shops that were there before and put the thermal plant back on the river, and raise every building in town and rebuild them to meet your vision of architecture. Besides, that's a slam against blind people.

Remember that money is an issue many times and people have to build within their means. Normally the better looking the building material is, the more expensive. Not everyone has the same vision of design that you have and for that matter the majority of the public really doesn't care. Just remember when you get to start designing buildings that get built, you will have to compromise your vision in exchange for a paycheck. I hope you get the opportunity to design a project you like and to see it built, but in the meantime you may want to tone it down a little and not be as much of a critic. We all have our issues and sometimes we have to just grin and bear it.

Newtowner, please keep the candid and informed posts coming. All the urban cheerleading is nice but my sense is that the forum and the city would be better served by a dialogue that is less rooted in the notion that because we're Nashville we must take what we can get from developers.

[NewTowner]

Newtowner, please keep the candid and informed posts coming. All the urban cheerleading is nice but my sense is that the forum and the city would be better served by a dialogue that is less rooted in the notion that because we're Nashville we must take what we can get from developers.

Thanks. I am sorry if I have made some people mad or hurt some feelings by repeatedly calling for high standards as we rebuild our ravaged city center...I do tend to oversimplify and put a bit too much spice in my descriptions of things as I see them. A lot of people seem to view Urban Planet as a venue for shared excitement, rather than a forum for hard dialogue--and while it may be that I am in wrong by praising the Schermerhorn (which is far from perfect) and deriding the plastic bars on Demonbreun (which still get a few things right), I must plead ignorance and confusion rather than premeditated rudeness. I thought the Urban Planet was what this site was all about.

I don't mean to "shoot butts" with words. I do mean to suggest that blind people probably shouldn't be in charge of arranging difficult public spaces, even if that is mean to blind people, whom I generally like as much as any other peoples. I think that Urban Planet should honestly be called Technology Planet, since amazing-object-skyscraper-watching seems to be the most prevalent concern here--rather than discussion about real urban fabric. I like streets, plazas, and such.

Smeagolsfree, it is obviously true that architects may have to compromise sometimes because their clients are poor and/or ignorant--but as the whole lot repeatedly embarrass themselves, it becomes clear that the public itself is ultimately to blame for what are simply low standards. I don't fancy that this will change because some people don't like it, or that I will change it because I don't like it. I do think it will change as energy prices rise and we are all forced to live in more walkable communities--because styrofoam bars only temporarily offend and embarrass motorists, while they detract from the general quality of life when they are set in neighborboods of pedestrians. That doesn't mean cheap buildings will stop being built. It just means that cheap buildings will stop pretending to be nice buildings, because common sense will once again enter into the public realm as the fifteen-second driveby glance stops being the dominant form of public architectural encounter.

Nashville rocks. It is full of awesome people, who have awesome ideas and real pride for their city. I love it, and I love all of you fine people here, and that is why--REPEAT--that is why--I hold Nashville to same high standards I do to Dresden, Savannah, or Edinburgh.

Perhaps I have too much confidence in the town. Or, perhaps my smiling face and humerous tone does not cut through my inferior text. Either way, I have rubbed some of you peeps the wrong way and so I apologize. But I stand by my views, because I believe they are rooted in realistically high expectations.

And I do prefer the Tin Roof to CARMAX, but I had hoped this would go without saying.

[ATLBrain]

Hear, hear, NT. I'd also add the unsightly use of pre-stressed concrete (a'la Loews Plaza) as a huge detractor from our goal of higher standards.

[bzorch]

My hope is that this forum will include more and more

[smeagolsfree]

I agree with you guys only that we dont need to do it by slamming an architect or any group of people. I am not a trained architect but I also know what my eyes tell me. There are plenty of examples of bad architecture in town. All I am saying is try not to come off as totally negative with our comments. We can all do better job at that. If we say something negative, it is also good to say the positive things we like and do it in a constructive manner. The comment about the Lionstuff group would not help if we are trying to get someone from that company to speak to the group. We can be constructive and critical only if it is done in a respectful manner. I know I have said a lot of goofy things on the boards and always trying to improve my dialog and doing it in a positive way. We all have enough of negativity in our lives and then are inundated with it on this board that is a hobby for many of us.

It is important to keep the Forum fun and I dont mean any disrespect to anyone here. Just be careful in what is said because it may put a bad taste in the mouth of someone who could be useful to us as a group or even on a personal basis.