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FiZZ

Possibly moving to NWA

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Hi

I'm a 23 year old who is likely going to be moving from Toronto, Canada to NWA. I've done some research on apartment rentals available, but was hoping someone could provide some first-hand advice on what areas of Fayetteville to consider. I am looking for a 1 bedroom place that is new, clean, well maintained, with good amenities, and in a young and lively area. How much $$ should I expect to pay per month? Any input is appreciated.

Thanks!

Fizz

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Even though it's been a few years since I rented in Fayetteville, for a nice 1 bedroom with washer, dryer, etc., you could probably expect to pay around 400-500/mo I would think (not including utilities).

Now, for a young and lively area, there's apartments around Dickson St and the UofA, but I think typically they will be harder to find and cost a bit more. A lot of the apartments are in north central Fayetteville and west Fayetteville; some nice, some not so nice, but the neighborhoods are fine. Cheaper apartments in those areas will probably be populated by more college students- i.e., be prepared to hear partying next door at 3 in the morning. Also, in my personal experience, I would stay away from Lindsey apartments (no offense to Lindsey), because even though there are a lot of them in Fayetteville they may look like a nice place at a reasonable price but the quality of the unit is not that good, and I don't know anybody (including me) who has liked residing in one.

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Mith242 is from Fayetteville, and he should be coming along any moment now. He took some really nice pictures of downtown Fayetteville that I just can't find right now.

Downtown Fayetteville (or Fayetteville in general) is the most happening place in NWA.

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Mith242 is from Fayetteville, and he should be coming along any moment now. He took some really nice pictures of downtown Fayetteville that I just can't find right now.

Downtown Fayetteville (or Fayetteville in general) is the most happening place in NWA.

I disagree Johnny, I think the Pinnacle Area is the most happening place in NWA, considering over 1 Billion in Development is coming within the next 4 years there.

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I disagree Johnny, I think the Pinnacle Area is the most happening place in NWA, considering over 1 Billion in Development is coming within the next 4 years there.

Development wise, yes.

There's nothing to do there, unless you like to go to the mall. :)

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Close to Dickson is best ! 23 years old will love Dickson - They have some studios close to Dickson just depends on what you can spend. The area is very safe as well.

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I disagree Johnny, I think the Pinnacle Area is the most happening place in NWA, considering over 1 Billion in Development is coming within the next 4 years there.

I think Johnny is referring to the nightlife and the more unique feel that Fayetteville has, not to mention sporting events associated with the U of A. Pinnacle will be nice, but its primarily retail.

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uh oh... looks like another competition is in the works. :D

If you're looking for mall shopping, a live entertainment venue with eclectic restaurants and taverns (bars) then Fayetteville is the most happening place in NWA. Nightclubs galore in Fayetteville.

If you're looking for more diverse shopping, restaurants, fine dining and movie theatres then Rogers will be the most happening place this Fall with even more theatres, dining and shopping attractions coming in the Fall of next year. There are some live entertainment venues in Rogers like the Bayou of Rogers (kareoke bar) and the Duelling Piano par in Bentonville. Benton County is a dry county so don't expect any "real" live entertainment like you'll find in Fayetteville.

Parks and outdoor recreation are similar with Rogers having a little bigger selection of fishing and boating with Beaver Lake being only a few minutes away. Both counties boast great neighborhood and city parks. There are also more golf courses in Benton County with several in Bella Vista just a few minutes north of Rogers.

If you're going to work in Benton County but live in Fayetteville you can expect horrible traffic problems, rising fuel prices and severe road conditions during bad winter weather. If you live and work in Rogers or Bentonville you'll not need to worry about I-540 traffic problems and you'll have more time to enjoy the many amenities Benton County has to offer.

Rents are about the same in Fayetteville, Rogers and Bentonville... depending on what price range and amenities you're looking for. I think it's actually against forum rules to advertise rental rates for apartments so if you let me know what you're looking for I can email you information. There are also some fairly reasonable rentals in Bella Vista although I wouldn't suggest living there due to really bad traffic and road conditions.

Here are a couple apartment links for Northwest Arkansas. Keep in mind that many affordable apartments here are Federally subsidized for moderate income families. Basically a family of 3 earning less than $24,000 per year can rent these apartments. The Bentonville Commons is by far one of the nicest of these types of apartment communities. Be sure to ask the apartment management if they are subsidized housing before you get involved, unless you qualify of course.

Northwest Arkansas Apartments Online

Lindsey Apartment Communities

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I think Johnny is referring to the nightlife and the more unique feel that Fayetteville has, not to mention sporting events associated with the U of A. Pinnacle will be nice, but its primarily retail.

Right, I wasn't referring to retail developments. Otherwise the bass pro shop in litte rock would qualify as a "happening" place.

For 23 year-olds, downtown areas are the most exciting places with band venues, clubs, diversity of cultures, diversity of stores (from weird to practical), etc. And of course, it's a college town, with plenty of 18-25 year olds....

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I am really excited that people are moving to NWA from even Canada. It sounds like our area is getting its word out that we are a great place to live, work, dine, and shop. In 2 to 3 years, Rogers and Fayetteville will be the two most lively places in NWA. Do many people in Canada know about our area?

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Thanks for all the info...I think I'm going to look for a place in downtown and commute to work from there.

How big is Fayetteville (i.e. how long does it take to drive from one end to the other)? Is a car a necessity?

Thanks for all the help!

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say you'll want a car. The city has ~65,000 people. (The greater metro has 347,045.) It's fairly spread out.....not so compact that you won't need a car.

Ah, you're from Toronto.....so you're use to the big city. Fayetteville's downtown is not comparable to Toronto's in any shape or form. It's much, much smaller. In fact, Toronto's population of 4,558,800 dwarfs 65,000 by quite a bit. It dwarfs the state of Arkansas' population too (2,673,400)

Unless you plan to be biking/walking several miles, a car will be a necessity.

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If you're young and used to an urban mixed-use city environment like Toronto, move to Fayetteville; close to the square or Dickson Street.

HOWEVER...

If you enjoy lots and lots of upper- to middle-class white folks in a sanitized, auto-dependent monoculture, be sure to look for a place to live in Pinnacle/Rogers, where you can visit the soon-to-come Promenade. Everyone is falling all over themselves about this thing, and you can live close and see what all the fuss is about.

It's basically a mall with the lid off, but it borrows lots of great ideas from cities and downtowns all over the world, like wide sidewalks, on-street parking, activity on the sidewalk, things to see, multi-story buildings that create a sense of enclosure, a mix of businesses, diversity in architecture, green spaces for all to use, and the ability to function in it without a car. (kind of like downtown Fayetteville, or on a much smaller scale; Rogers or Bentonville.)

In fact, it was such a great idea and plan, that they decided to completely develop the entire area in the exact OPPOSITE fashion. Boring narrow sidewalks smushed next to busy four-lane roads; difficult for the pedestrian to navigate, an area completely dependent on the car, large boxes surrounded by seas of parking, providing absolutely nothing for the pedestrian to see and enjoy. And it's completely cut off from Rogers, catering to the modern must-have of interstate frontage.

Unlike the Country Club Plaza in KC that's part of the city, the Promenade is nothing more than the newest and shiniest incarnation of the basic shopping mall. It's still your typical mall, mostly inaccessible to pedestrians or bikers, in a part of town where navigation without the car isn't possible.

However, if you want to enjoy living in an actual "place," be sure to look at downtown Rogers, downtown Bentonville, or probably for you, downtown Fayettevillle.

Pinnacle is a development, Fayetteville is a place.

It's a place you can take a walk, see interesting sights as you do, ride your bike, visit independent merchants, get to know a wide range of people, and be part of the organic fabric of a city. You'll need a car to get around still (this IS America), but your fate won't be bound to it like most of the rest of the people here.

I'm laying it on pretty thick here, but if you're from Toronto, you'll probably be the most comfortable in downtown Fayetteville. I live in downtown Bentonville, and I enjoy it, but Fville is probably your place. You can choose a place where you have transportation options, as opposed to most around here with absolutely one choice: Drive or perish.

-----

I find it interesting that this forum is called Urban Planet, when there seems to be some regular posters who have absolutely no idea what makes good "urbanism." Just an observation.

Bill

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Downtown Bentonville? That's interesting.... I wasn't aware there was much going on around downtown bentonville.....

Downtown Bentonville has a beautiful town square and is adding a few condobuildings and condo conversions. The Crystal Bridges Art Museum coming along in a few years is really going to set things on fire there.

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There is stuff going on in downtown Bentonville, but it's not on the scale of Fayetteville, obviously. There are four new restaurants downtown, Crystal Bridges coming in 2009, a town square with pretty cool events all year long, tons of great housing near the square overlooked by Mr. Wal-Mart and Mr. Vendor in lieu of look-a-like houses far away.

And then there's the great efforts of Main Street Bentonville that has done/is doing a wonderful job of promoting the economy and livability of downtown. And without question, Bentonville has the most forward-looking planning commission that is unwilling to sacrifice the ability to control their growth for things that are new, quick and shiny. They're leaps and bounds ahead of Rogers as far as understanding the relationships between transportation and land use. (Rogers: the city that approved the Promenade without the assurance that the Perry Road overpass was going to get done.) They see downtown as one of their greatest assets, not their interstate frontage. They promote sustainable smart growth inside the main city street grid, as well as outside the grid.

Come back in 20 years, and you'll see that their wisdom and long-range planning has paid off. They may not have the shiniest mall in NWA, but they'll have the city and "place" that residents are clamoring to live in.

I had to live here for work. Otherwise, I would have probably chosen Fayetteville, but living in downtown Bentonville beats living next to a mall or in a subdivision of 300 of the same house where you have to drive everywhere.

BTW, Don't hold your breath for the Haney mixed-use office/condo building next to the old theater. I do believe they're looking for a new primary tenant and things are sort of on hold. Could be awhile.

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Downtown Bentonville? That's interesting.... I wasn't aware there was much going on around downtown bentonville.....

It's really the classic small-town county seat downtown square. It's very similar to downtown Benton if you've been there but obviously in less disrepair. There's been very little torn down over the years and really it's quite an attractive area. I hope nobody the character's preserved and nobody tears down the older buildings as Bentonville grows.

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If you enjoy lots and lots of upper- to middle-class white folks in a sanitized, auto-dependent monoculture, be sure to look for a place to live in Pinnacle/Rogers, where you can visit the soon-to-come Promenade.

Upper- to middle-class may be right, but Rogers and Bentonville is more ethnically diverse than Fayetteville is, so try not to presume that because an area is wealthy it must be white. And if by sanitized you mean clean and new then you're right again... Rogers and Bentonville has a much cleaner and new appearance to them than Fayetteville which still looks old and run-down in many areas.

In fact, it was such a great idea and plan, that they decided to completely develop the entire area in the exact OPPOSITE fashion. Boring narrow sidewalks smushed next to busy four-lane roads; difficult for the pedestrian to navigate, an area completely dependent on the car, large boxes surrounded by seas of parking, providing absolutely nothing for the pedestrian to see and enjoy. And it's completely cut off from Rogers, catering to the modern must-have of interstate frontage.

No different than most big city shopping centers located on interstate frontage.

However, if you want to enjoy living in an actual "place," be sure to look at downtown Rogers, downtown Bentonville, or probably for you, downtown Fayettevillle.

At least we agree that Rogers and Bentonville downtowns are "actual places" worth living in.

Pinnacle is a development, Fayetteville is a place.

It's a place you can take a walk, see interesting sights as you do, ride your bike, visit independent merchants, get to know a wide range of people, and be part of the organic fabric of a city. You'll need a car to get around still (this IS America), but your fate won't be bound to it like most of the rest of the people here.

The same can be said of Rogers and Bentonville.

I find it interesting that this forum is called Urban Planet, when there seems to be some regular posters who have absolutely no idea what makes good "urbanism." Just an observation.

I find it interesting that some "irregular" posters think they know more about "urbanism" than anyone else. Your observations are nothing more than your opinions of which we all have our own.

Downtown Bentonville has a beautiful town square and is adding a few condobuildings and condo conversions. The Crystal Bridges Art Museum coming along in a few years is really going to set things on fire there.

Crystal Bridges is going to be a few miles north of downtown Bentonville. There will be a trailhead starting at the new Compton Gardens a couple blocks north of the square that will connect to Crystal Bridges.

The new Bentonville Public Library is going to add to the growing walkable attractions in downtown Bentonville.

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For the record, I'm not knocking either downtown Bentonville or Rogers. I like both cities and I have a special fondness for downtown Bentonville because I live there and have a great interest in the vitality of downtown. I think the Rogers leaders have mostly forsaken the notion of their downtown, caring about it solely as a historical sentimental place, albeit with some function. (Contrast how the two cities' Main Street programs work; one is mostly about historical preservation, and the other is about economic development and enhancing a sense of "place" downtown.) If Womack could move the city seat to Pinnacle, I think he would. Bentonville cares about centering their growth around the downtown redevelopment district (from Tiger to 14th, and from Walton to J Street.

I took issue with the notion that the Pinnacle/Pleasant Crossing/Promenade area is going be the most happening "place," merely pointing out that it's just another mall. The ironic thing about the Promenade is that they've taken good elements of urbanism in the design of their mall, and then completely scrapped those elements for the larger overall design of the entire area. If the design of the Promenade is such a great idea, such a great marketing tool, and it's proven that the model of the lifestyle center is attractive, why not develop the entire Pinnacle area in the same format? Why develop the rest of the place in a auto-only fashion? If you leave the Promenade and want to go to Best Buy, you're likely going to have to get in the car and drive 300 yards, lest you take your life in your own hands by walking through territory designed solely for cars. Similar to Scottsdale. Want to go to a movie after eating at "Chain-Restaurant X"? Probably can't walk the 200 yards.

That's what kills me about the Promenade. WHY does it have to be done the same as every other shopping center with interstate frontage? Merely following a trend doesn't make it smart. They could have created something similar to Country Club Plaza; laying down a street grid, connecting it to the rest of the city, and create something lasting that isn't just a "development" or another shopping mall. And then you open up the possiblity of residential development IN the Promenade rather than apartment complexes or subdivisions NEAR the Promenade. Shoot, the Pinnacle folks could have created an entirely new 2nd downtown.

Everyone who thinks the Promenade (and lifestyle centers in general) are going to be most wonderful thing in the world, forgets the fact that today's Promenades are tomorrow's NW Arkansas Malls. Contrast that with the downtown/urban development pattern is time-tested and continues to prove profitable and long-lasting.

I'd check your stats on diversity. Rogers has slightly less of a percentage of white people than Fayetteville, with almost the entire remainder being hispanic. Fayetteville by far has the highest measure of ethnic diversity, with more representation nearly across the board. Bentonville is nearly completely white, with nearly the entire remainder being Hispanic. (2000 Census data, which is going to change with the special census going on around here.)

The reason I love living where I do in Bentonville is because it's not SW Rogers, or Centerton, or any other place that completely separates uses into pods that are inaccessible to each other except by car.

While it's true that my thoughts on urbanism are my opinions, I'd be hard-pressed to find anyone educated in the realm of urban planning who thinks that areas like Pinnacle, or S. Rogers are "urban." I'd recommend reading the wonderful timeless work of Jane Jacobs in "the Death and Life of Great American Cities." It's about NYC, but the concepts apply across the board. (Suburban Nation by Andres Duany is also a fantastic read.)

Form, function and land use define urbanism, and Pinnacle it ain't.

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All of the cities have their rundown areas. Yes, Fayetteville has some rundown areas...but not anymore than other cities. I've seen a very ugly east side of Rogers. I think this bickering is silly. It's tit for tat for any city up there.

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For the record, I'm not knocking either downtown Bentonville or Rogers. I like both cities and I have a special fondness for downtown Bentonville because I live there and have a great interest in the vitality of downtown. I think the Rogers leaders have mostly forsaken the notion of their downtown, caring about it solely as a historical sentimental place, albeit with some function. (Contrast how the two cities' Main Street programs work; one is mostly about historical preservation, and the other is about economic development and enhancing a sense of "place" downtown.) If Womack could move the city seat to Pinnacle, I think he would. Bentonville cares about centering their growth around the downtown redevelopment district (from Tiger to 14th, and from Walton to J Street.

I took issue with the notion that the Pinnacle/Pleasant Crossing/Promenade area is going be the most happening "place," merely pointing out that it's just another mall. The ironic thing about the Promenade is that they've taken good elements of urbanism in the design of their mall, and then completely scrapped those elements for the larger overall design of the entire area. If the design of the Promenade is such a great idea, such a great marketing tool, and it's proven that the model of the lifestyle center is attractive, why not develop the entire Pinnacle area in the same format? Why develop the rest of the place in a auto-only fashion? If you leave the Promenade and want to go to Best Buy, you're likely going to have to get in the car and drive 300 yards, lest you take your life in your own hands by walking through territory designed solely for cars. Similar to Scottsdale. Want to go to a movie after eating at "Chain-Restaurant X"? Probably can't walk the 200 yards.

That's what kills me about the Promenade. WHY does it have to be done the same as every other shopping center with interstate frontage? Merely following a trend doesn't make it smart. They could have created something similar to Country Club Plaza; laying down a street grid, connecting it to the rest of the city, and create something lasting that isn't just a "development" or another shopping mall. And then you open up the possiblity of residential development IN the Promenade rather than apartment complexes or subdivisions NEAR the Promenade. Shoot, the Pinnacle folks could have created an entirely new 2nd downtown.

Everyone who thinks the Promenade (and lifestyle centers in general) are going to be most wonderful thing in the world, forgets the fact that today's Promenades are tomorrow's NW Arkansas Malls. Contrast that with the downtown/urban development pattern is time-tested and continues to prove profitable and long-lasting.

I'd check your stats on diversity. Rogers has slightly less of a percentage of white people than Fayetteville, with almost the entire remainder being hispanic. Fayetteville by far has the highest measure of ethnic diversity, with more representation nearly across the board. Bentonville is nearly completely white, with nearly the entire remainder being Hispanic. (2000 Census data, which is going to change with the special census going on around here.)

The reason I love living where I do in Bentonville is because it's not SW Rogers, or Centerton, or any other place that completely separates uses into pods that are inaccessible to each other except by car.

While it's true that my thoughts on urbanism are my opinions, I'd be hard-pressed to find anyone educated in the realm of urban planning who thinks that areas like Pinnacle, or S. Rogers are "urban." I'd recommend reading the wonderful timeless work of Jane Jacobs in "the Death and Life of Great American Cities." It's about NYC, but the concepts apply across the board. (Suburban Nation by Andres Duany is also a fantastic read.)

Form, function and land use define urbanism, and Pinnacle it ain't.

Wow, I don't think anyone could have said it better. Are you a city planner? If you don't mind me asking. We could use a sharp thinker like you in Springfield, MO. I think youre thoughts about the Promanade/Pinnacle area's being "urban" hit dead on. If Big developments like the Promanade/Pinnacle area's were considered urban Branson would be one large urban city...... but of course it isn't at all.

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For the record, I'm not knocking either downtown Bentonville or Rogers. I like both cities and I have a special fondness for downtown Bentonville because I live there and have a great interest in the vitality of downtown. I think the Rogers leaders have mostly forsaken the notion of their downtown, caring about it solely as a historical sentimental place, albeit with some function. (Contrast how the two cities' Main Street programs work; one is mostly about historical preservation, and the other is about economic development and enhancing a sense of "place" downtown.) If Womack could move the city seat to Pinnacle, I think he would. Bentonville cares about centering their growth around the downtown redevelopment district (from Tiger to 14th, and from Walton to J Street.

I took issue with the notion that the Pinnacle/Pleasant Crossing/Promenade area is going be the most happening "place," merely pointing out that it's just another mall. The ironic thing about the Promenade is that they've taken good elements of urbanism in the design of their mall, and then completely scrapped those elements for the larger overall design of the entire area. If the design of the Promenade is such a great idea, such a great marketing tool, and it's proven that the model of the lifestyle center is attractive, why not develop the entire Pinnacle area in the same format? Why develop the rest of the place in a auto-only fashion? If you leave the Promenade and want to go to Best Buy, you're likely going to have to get in the car and drive 300 yards, lest you take your life in your own hands by walking through territory designed solely for cars. Similar to Scottsdale. Want to go to a movie after eating at "Chain-Restaurant X"? Probably can't walk the 200 yards.

That's what kills me about the Promenade. WHY does it have to be done the same as every other shopping center with interstate frontage? Merely following a trend doesn't make it smart. They could have created something similar to Country Club Plaza; laying down a street grid, connecting it to the rest of the city, and create something lasting that isn't just a "development" or another shopping mall. And then you open up the possiblity of residential development IN the Promenade rather than apartment complexes or subdivisions NEAR the Promenade. Shoot, the Pinnacle folks could have created an entirely new 2nd downtown.

Everyone who thinks the Promenade (and lifestyle centers in general) are going to be most wonderful thing in the world, forgets the fact that today's Promenades are tomorrow's NW Arkansas Malls. Contrast that with the downtown/urban development pattern is time-tested and continues to prove profitable and long-lasting.

I'd check your stats on diversity. Rogers has slightly less of a percentage of white people than Fayetteville, with almost the entire remainder being hispanic. Fayetteville by far has the highest measure of ethnic diversity, with more representation nearly across the board. Bentonville is nearly completely white, with nearly the entire remainder being Hispanic. (2000 Census data, which is going to change with the special census going on around here.)

The reason I love living where I do in Bentonville is because it's not SW Rogers, or Centerton, or any other place that completely separates uses into pods that are inaccessible to each other except by car.

While it's true that my thoughts on urbanism are my opinions, I'd be hard-pressed to find anyone educated in the realm of urban planning who thinks that areas like Pinnacle, or S. Rogers are "urban." I'd recommend reading the wonderful timeless work of Jane Jacobs in "the Death and Life of Great American Cities." It's about NYC, but the concepts apply across the board. (Suburban Nation by Andres Duany is also a fantastic read.)

Form, function and land use define urbanism, and Pinnacle it ain't.

Yep. Glad to see others note the obvious contrast in planning between Bentonville and Rogers. For one who is involved in transportation planning, it's obvious Rogers is setting itself up as an auto-oriented city, and will pay with bad traffic congestion in the future among other undesirable elements. Troy Galloway and others at Bentonville do a fantastic job from what I can tell; however, I'm not even sure the City of Rogers even have a true planner per se. If they do, I've never read, seen, heard, or met him/her.

Back to Fizz's question, even if you plan on living in downtown Fayetteville, you're still better off with an automobile. If your job doesn't require commuting or is in central Fayetteville, then it's possible to live without driving (walking and taking Razorback Transit), but it will be a difficult adjustment from Toronto life I'm sure.

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