NC State Govt Complex: what are the plans?

[Jones_]

I say put webguys Quorum style building on Peace between teh Salisbury stub and the RR tracks where the State training facility is. Buses could whip right in from Capital (provided a light ever gets put in at the SB Capital/Peace interchange) into the thing. Somehow organizing the collector street configuration so the buses could get out again would be a help in this scenario too. It could tie into the existing parking decks already between Salisbury adn the tracks.

[Gard]

The state didn't spend any money on F Street -- that was Raleigh's money, and maybe Wake County's. The state wants a visitor's center on Jones for school trips (and other visitors) to the museums, Capitol Building, and General Assembly. Having Fayetville Street nearby is nice, but not a concern.

Just so we're all clear, the visitor's center is a State Government project. F Street was under the purview of the City.

I realize that, but the city and state SHOULD work together on these things, which is my point.

[rooster8]

^That would definitely be a plus. Projects such as Dix, Green Square, and this visitor center should be developed in close concert with the city.

[ncwebguy]

The Peace/Salisbury area seems a bit far away, but it is only a block further north than the current bus parking lot north of Polk between Blount and Person. With pedestrian bridges in the area over Salisbury and Lane, school kids could stay out of traffic until Jones Street.

There is a fair amount of surface parking north of Edenton Street.

Raleigh does not want its visitor's center in the state government area, and the state doesn't want a visitor's center where the city would like one -- F Street/Convention Center. A compromise near Capitol Square is far from parking decks unless the visitor's center/deck was built near Edenton/Wilmington. But that is still more on the "State" side of the Capitol than the "Raleigh" side to the south.

[ChiefJoJo]

In addition to the Green Square design-build RFP, there's a bid out for CM at risk for the "mysterious" parking deck that was funded under the Green Square bill. I would surmise some spaces will supplement the 500 underground spaces at Green Square, but also help make up for the lost parking from the lost surface parking in these lots and the Blount St project.

• Project Description: Construction of new Parking Deck located at 217 W. Jones Street, Raleigh, N.C. The new parking deck will be aboveground, 6 levels, approx. 350,000 square feet and approx. 800 to 900 spaces. Work will also require demolition of existing Old YWCA building (4 stories, 26,700 sq ft) and 2 surface parking lots.
  
• Project Budget: $20,000,000
  
• Project Designer: Pearce, Brinkley, Cease & Lee, Raleigh, NC
  
• Construction Completion: September 2008
  

It will be located on Jones St, which will be directly across McDowell Street from Green Square.

Elev view (Edenton St Methodist to the left):

Plan view (Edenton St Methodist to the south side):

[carynative]

Any retail or offices on the first floor? My guess is no, since it is state govt.

[sax184]

In addition to the Green Square design-build RFP, there's a bid out for CM at risk for the "mysterious" parking deck that was funded under the Green Square bill. I would surmise some spaces will supplement the 500 underground spaces at Green Square, but also help make up for the lost parking from the lost surface parking in these lots and the Blount St project.

• Project Description: Construction of new Parking Deck located at 217 W. Jones Street, Raleigh, N.C. The new parking deck will be aboveground, 6 levels, approx. 350,000 square feet and approx. 800 to 900 spaces. Work will also require demolition of existing Old YWCA building (4 stories, 26,700 sq ft) and 2 surface parking lots.
  
• Project Budget: $20,000,000
  
• Project Designer: Pearce, Brinkley, Cease & Lee, Raleigh, NC
  
• Construction Completion: September 2008
  

Chief- Where could one find the docs on these parking deck RFPs? Have any links?

[ChiefJoJo]

They are on the Dept of Administration's State Construction Office... go to services and click on design or construction bids, depending on what you are looking for.

No retail on this project. For better of worse, the state isn't focused on land use, simply on building facilities and parking for their employees and visitors. The most likely scenario for the state to get involved in something that would be an RFP for a piece of state land, a la the Wake Co deck and Empire's partnership. I would love to see the state become more innovative with their buildings, but I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon.

[Jones_]

What a great block! It generates exactly zero dollars in tax revenue for the City and County and has exactly zero interesting things for your average pedestrian....

[ChiefJoJo]

From the Green Square thread:

The Senate budget passed today didn't have any money in the COPs for the Green Square project, they opted to spend a most of their capital spending on UNC system buildings including $114 million for the James B. Hunt Library at Centennial Campus.

The budget does have an interesting item regarding parking though...

The Department of Administration shall immediately cease the construction of a new parking facility in the City of Raleigh that had been authorized by Section 4 of S.L. 2006-231.

(Which states, SECTION 4. In accordance with G.S. 142‑83, this section authorizes the issuance or incurrence of special indebtedness in the maximum aggregate principal amount of twenty million dollars ($20,000,000) to finance the capital facility costs of a new parking deck to be constructed in downtown Raleigh.)

So I guess this deck may not be built after all.

[Gard]

Well I hope they plan on putting something there and it better not be a suburbia-style parking lot.

[cthayes75]

Is that the location of the proposed Capitol Area Visitor's Center across Jones St. from the Archives bldg?

[Jones_]

Is that the location of the proposed Capitol Area Visitor's Center across Jones St. from the Archives bldg?

Its the parking lot on the block with the Methodist Church, north of the church and accross Jones from Caswell Square. Currently the old YWCA stands there too.

[ChiefJoJo]

This article focuses on the parking lots for state employees in downtown Raleigh, and mentions the bill that would remove the proposed $20M deck in the budget.

To force a conversation about parking, commuting and how the state spends its money, Cowell inserted a provision in the Senate budget to get rid of reserved spots for state employees in all but a few small parking lots.

State workers might still be assigned to lots and decks, but without individually reserved spaces. Like most legislators and most other downtown workers, they would have to search for their parking spots each morning.

Under Cowell's plan, the state would overbook each parking lot by 15 percent. At least that many reserved spots are empty now on a given day, she says. Nobody has done the official math, but Cowell figures her plan would expand state parking capacity by at least 800 spaces.

That's close to the number -- 905 parking spots --to be added in a $20 million parking deck the legislature authorized last year. Cowell's budget provision would halt the planned deck.

I think something like this is a great idea and would save the state $20M on a uneeded parking deck and perhaps encourage more carpooling or transit use (it's about time). The fact that the state govt parking rates have been unchanged for 30 years is a bit redicuous too. I know state employees don't like it (& I am one), but it's time to address parking in a some other way than build more decks and allow parking for next to nothing.

[pdxheel]

[url=http://www.newsobserver.com/248/story/608995.html]

I think something like this is a great idea and would save the state $20M on a uneeded parking deck and perhaps encourage more carpooling or transit use (it's about time). The fact that the state govt parking rates have been unchanged for 30 years is a bit redicuous too. I know state employees don't like it (& I am one), but it's time to address parking in a some other way than build more decks and allow parking for next to nothing.

Conversations I have had with individuals close to the parking deck issue indicated to me that the project is moving forward. Sen. Cowell's provision was more to push the discussion regarding state parking and raise it as an issue going forward. Expect demolition of the Y to occur sometime in the first or second week of July.

[ncwebguy]

It is "debate" like this from the article that distorts the issues:

"Our retirement and pay and health care hasn't been all that great in the last five or so years, and we're trying to remedy that situation," said Dana Cope, director of the State Employees Association of North Carolina. "And then to take away the ability for state employees to park is kind of ludicrous, as they have to perform their duties on a daily basis."

This proposal won't take away "the ability for state employees to park". It will remove designated spaces, and hopefully will change how they charge for parking. If the parking was not subsidized to the $10/month surface lot and $15/month deck space rates that have stayed unchanged the last 30 years, that money can go towards retirement plans, salaries, and health care coverage. The current rates cover maintenance, but don't cover the opportunity cost lost in keeping the lots as is.

The North Blount project put a pricetag on those lots. If they knew what people were paying to park in other parts of downtown Raleigh, or at NC State (also state employees), they would see how good they have it now.

[cthayes75]

In the waning hours of the General Assembly session, they passed a bill that more or less said that the City of Raleigh will have no say in the zoning of Green Square and that the State of NC will build whatever they want at the space.

Apparently, the City wanted the State to build some ground-level retail and possibly some residential at the space, the state wants a parking deck and the DENR building.

Thus, we get a bill (S1313) that states, "Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no local zoning ordinance shall apply to any State‑owned building built or to be built on any State‑owned land within six blocks of the State Capitol without the consent of the Council of State."

Basically, City of Raleigh, mind your own buisness.

[ChiefJoJo]

As cthayes mentioned, the state passed a bill that removes the city's right to control zoning on downtown state land... and the council is pissed off.

After city planners delayed a state parking deck near the Capitol, state officials quietly rammed through the legislature a bill that stripped the city of its power to approve -- or deny -- the project.

The bill, which has yet to be signed by Gov. Mike Easley, would allow the state to build a parking deck and ignore Raleigh's desire for downtown parking garages that look better than conventional concrete and steel structures. Wake County's elected lawmakers supported the bill, and its passage has left city leaders steamed.

"It's just the typical finger in the eye to the city of Raleigh," Councilman Philip Isley said. "[That happens] each time the state has an opportunity to do it."

...

"The Wake County delegation should have called us to tell us what was going on and consult us about the bill," Meeker said.

The bill, which was introduced at the behest of the governor's office and the Department of Administration, passed unanimously in the House and Senate. Its sole sponsor was Sen. Janet Cowell, a former Raleigh City Council member. Rep. Ty Harrell of Wake County handled the bill on the House floor

...

"We're in a situation where we need to move forward," Cobb said. "We have assured the city that we are not going to build something that is not in keeping with downtown Raleigh."

Meeker said that if the bill becomes law, the city has no power to enforce such a pledge. "If they're going to meet our standards, then there was no need for the legislation," he said.

This will affect the Capital Area Visitors Center and Green Square projects as well. It's sad that our own local delegation worked against us--especially Cowell, who used to serve on the council for pete sake. It's hilarious to me the the DOA is saying they need to move forward right away, when they've made no progress on these projects in 2-3 years it seems. Hopefully, the planning dept can work out a compromise with the state on the parking deck.

[Captain Awesome]

It is a shame that our own representatives are seemingly working against their constituents' interests in sponsoring this bill. My interpretation, though is that one of the big holdups in the project is the lack of street level retail in the proposed parking decks. The City wasn't going to approve the decks without the requisite first floor retail. I looks like the state had no intention on including retail in these decks and wasn't budging.

My experience is that the State has done a good job, esthetically, on its downtown projects. As much as I agree with Raleigh's stance on parking deck retail, this project really needs to move forward and (especially because of the structure of NC gov't) the State wasn't going to allow one of its municipalities to stand in the way. It's just a shame that now we have a far reaching law impacting the core of downtown when a compromise with less long term ramifications should have been reached.

Maybe our representitives should have used their position to negotiate that compromise than to draft the bill itself.

[Captain Awesome]

Senator Cowell and others have also proposed making the state employee lots and decks first-come-first-served rather than having reserved spaces for each employee, which results in ten percent of the parking spaces being empty each day.

I have doubts as to whether they'll be able to pull that off. State Gov. employees take their parking spots pretty seriously - a good spot is a perk of seniority. I don't see them letting that go.

[ChiefJoJo]

I have doubts as to whether they'll be able to pull that off. State Gov. employees take their parking spots pretty seriously - a good spot is a perk of seniority. I don't see them letting that go.

The bill that limited reserved parking for state employees downtown passed, and the DOA is looking at implementation. Due to Blount St and Green Square, the days of plentiful, cheap, reserved parking downtown are almost over.

[ChiefJoJo]

Gov. Easley included $40M for the Capitol Area Visitors Center in his proposed budget. It would include a parking deck (490 spaces) and a plaza to be located across from the History Museum & state archives. Let's hope they don't take up the entire block. I still would like to see the DHHS bldg near there instead of at Dix. They could use the block to the east as well.

[dmccall]

What an extremely short-sighted plan for that block. It is one of the few remaining undeveloped tracts that can handle a nice tower for the skyline. More importantly, the state government is liable to just throw up some ugly parking structure, diagonally across from the Capitol, and botch the opportunity to bring more workers downtown.

That corner has/had great potential (Wilm/Edenton) with the Capitol grounds and Christ Church. Then, the state had to go throwing the rear end of the History museum up to it. Don't put it past them to do it again and seal the fate another block of Wilmington street with blank walls and nothing for pedestrians to do.

We need state govt. to start acting like and asset to our city.

[orulz]

To any of you working for the state downtown. Is the grassy courtyard on the Halifax Mall underutilized during business hours? Every time I've looked (never during business hours) it's completely deserted... even scary, surrounded by all those soulless office buildings with darkly tinted windows.

If so, the state really needs to own up to the fact that the Halifax Mall is a huge flop and a waste of valuable real estate. They should punch a street through mid-block from Salisbury to Wilmington, and build more state offices (DHHS, for example) where the grassy mall is now.

[JeffC]

To any of you working for the state downtown. Is the grassy courtyard on the Halifax Mall underutilized during business hours? Every time I've looked (never during business hours) it's completely deserted... even scary, surrounded by all those soulless office buildings with darkly tinted windows.

If so, the state really needs to own up to the fact that the Halifax Mall is a huge flop and a waste of valuable real estate. They should punch a street through mid-block from Salisbury to Wilmington, and build more state offices (DHHS, for example) where the grassy mall is now.

problem is, there is an enormous parking garage under that Mall. So not only are there construction issues with putting a road through a parking garage, there is a political issue. Many legislators and legislative staff park in that underground garage, and they sure aren't going to give up their cushy parking spots for someone's vision of a better streetscape...

You do raise a good point though...it is an enormously underutilized space...the end near the Legislature is used for various events put on by groups wishing to educate/lobby their General Assembly members during session, but the area is largely unused the other 9 months of the year (short session years)/other five months of the year (long session years).