234,000 people in one year!

[Newnan]

it could happen

[Andrea]

Here's one way of looking at it. The ARC is projecting that the city's population in 2030 will be 584,000 (Envision 6 suggests it may be in the mid-600,000s).

That works out to about 5,400 additional people per year inside the city limits, which is quite a bit of housing. A place like the Reynolds, for example, has about 130 condos, so if everybody got their own space that size it will take about 42 new buildings every year for the next 25 years.

[Newnan]

and last year according to the ARC Atlanta added about 7,000 people!

[Newnan]

do you think the renewed interest in urban living will last though?

[Andrea]

do you think the renewed interest in urban living will last though?

Well, I would certainly think so, unless cities start messing things up so bad that people no longer want to live there. My guess is that the sprawl-based lifestyle -- note I did not say suburban lifestyle -- is becoming sufficiently problematical for significant numbers of people to reconsider the status quo.

You are thinking it is just a passing fancy?

[Unifour]

For a CSA the size of Atlanta's, the population stats are pretty meaningless. Sorry for being a pooper, but due to edge cities & exurbs - the CSA could hypothetically extend forever. The reasoning - it's primarily based on commuting patterns. So that county in Alabama, the residents aren't neccessarily driving to downtown Atlanta to work, but 10 to 15% are driving somewhere in the MSA to work. In many cases, you will have one county that does have a large commuting pattern into the CBD, like Clayton or Coweta (already an exurban county). But there are people from Merriweather County that drive to Coweta County for work. Not to mention there are a number of southern metro counties like Lamar that drive to various other fringe counties - like Spaulding. As for Spaulding, the majority works in Griffin, there are few commuters driving outside of the county - just like Carrollton & Cartersville. But just enough.

As long as you have a rural economy that is broken, you will have this pattern of 'sprawl'. It's not suburban sprawl, consider it an economic commuting sprawl which encourages rural residents to drive towards the biggest city for some type of work.

I understand that is seems that Atlanta is an unusual case, but Atlanta's CSA isn't overly large when compared to other major metros in the US. Georgia counties are very small, and it doesn't take much for them to be suburbanized. Atlanta development is spreading into Coweta, which is the next county over from Troup on the Alabama border. It is a rapidly expanding metropolis, which is why those counties are added. We have counties, and other nations have other jurisdictions. All nations define a metropolitan area in a similar fashion. They use social and economic interaction with the greater metropolis to define it. Most major metros cover a large portion of the state they are in. Los Angeles CSA covers a huge chunk of Southern California, and San Bernadino County alone is almost half the size of the state of Georgia. New York has spread into a large chunk of Connecticut and covers about half of New Jersey, in addition to a large chunk of New York state. They are large cities, and those areas have been brought into thier orbit. that's all you can say. Our metros are expanding in this country, and Atlanta is one of the fastest in the history of the world. It may one day take up nearly all of Georgia. Metro Atlanta is driving Georgia's growth and prosperity; it is inflating Georgia's population, I don't think the Census has an agenda to over inflate Atlanta or any other metro. They just expand them when needed as any other nation does. Also, by the way. MOST of metro Atlanta's population is concentrated in a contiguous area which includes the urban counties of Fulton, DeKalb, Cobb, Gwinnett, and Clayton, in addition to southern Cherokee and Forsyth, eastern Paulding and Douglas, northern Fayette Coweta and Henry, and western Rockdale and Newton. This urbanized area has a population approaching 5 million. However, development is creeping into most of the counties in the MSA/CSA.

[Unifour]

It is pretty amazing how far the reach is, but Atlanta is a large city and its edge cities attrach workers from outlying counties. I think a lot of people say in Bartow County are commuting down to areas in Cobb County more so than into Atlanta itself. Likewise, Dawson County has become an exurb for Alpharetta for people who want to get up towards the mountains. I know it is my clients in the northern arc edge cities that attract workers from these exurban communities reaching into the mountains more so than my intown clients. It is is like interconnected rings of intown, edge city, suburban, and exurbia areas. It is what the automobile, aggressive DOTs, and cheap gas did to our settlement patterns. I do agree with the earlier post though that is still all connected in with the cental area as the source. If you drive out I-85 into Jackson County (past the Hamilton Mill area), you will see the subdivisions springing up. There are coming to Jackson County because of Atlanta's edge cities in Gwinnett which in turn are there because of Atlanta. It is all an economically interconnected system, which is what the MSA captures. Jackson County may be added into the MSA soon. I think it is appropriate to put these outlying counties into the MSA because they are clearly being influenced strongly by the economic activity of the central core counties. It is not just that these counties do not have much economic activity on their own (and so people have to commute to the city), but that they are experiencing significant population growth that the next layer of counties further out are not experiencing, and it is clearly because of their transition into first exurban and later suburban extensions of the Atlanta blob that is eating north Georgia.

Exactly. Our definitions of Metropolitan are not that different from any other country. For example, Paris is a small little highly urban city sitting in the middle of thousands of kilometers of suburban "sprawl." (I'm loathe to use such a word because of the negative connotations the Leftist Eco-Marxists have attached to it) Atlanta continues to attract the people, and they are moving to the next less developed county, which in turn sparks more development and economic growth, which brings in workers from the next county over, and etc. etc..

[ryanmckibben]

/\ You say that like it's a good thing.

And just out of curiosity, what kind of connotations do the Rightest Religo-Fascists associate with the term Sprawl?

[ironchapman]

I would like nothing more than for Atlanta to pass Miami in population

It did.

Unless you are talking about metros.

[kayman]

I agree, in southern GA - it's a completely different part of the country compared to northern GA standards. You had might as well be in Alabama or Mississippi when you're around Albany - it's desperately poor.

You mean South Alabama and Mississippi. I say that because North Alabama particularly Central Alabama and the Huntsville-Decatur area is nothing like South Alabama or Mississippi.

[teshadoh]

You mean South Alabama and Mississippi. I say that because North Alabama particularly Central Alabama and the Huntsville-Decatur area is nothing like South Alabama or Mississippi.

Oh touchy touchy - but you're right, I was reffering to southern Alabama (which obviously is directly adjacent to southern GA).

[kayman]

Exactly. Our definitions of Metropolitan are not that different from any other country. For example, Paris is a small little highly urban city sitting in the middle of thousands of kilometers of suburban "sprawl." (I'm loathe to use such a word because of the negative connotations the Leftist Eco-Marxists have attached to it) Atlanta continues to attract the people, and they are moving to the next less developed county, which in turn sparks more development and economic growth, which brings in workers from the next county over, and etc. etc..

But to be honest this overgrowth of Metro Atlanta will likely lead to its downfall also. Sometimes growth is not the most positive thing. Everybody doesn't want to be part of the massive overurbanization called Metro Atlanta (and the negative connotation that comes with it). Georgia should rethink its view on this and take the propers steps to stop some of this before this becomes a bigger problem it already is instead of a huge asset.

[Newnan]

why would we want to keep business and people from moving into Georgia?

[kayman]

why would we want to keep business and people from moving into Georgia?

I'm saying that eventually people will get sick and tired of commuting 50-60 miles just to get to work. At the rate the cost of gasoline is going up it's going to get unbearable to live and work in Metro Atlanta. Georgia needs to improve its mass transit infrustracture and places some control on its sprawl before causes Atlanta to become the place not to live.

[Greens!]

Does anyone know the Metro Atlanta MSA vs. CSA population?

[Newnan]

The smaller one is about 4.9 million as of 2005, and the larger one is about 5.2 million as of 2005.

[Andrea]

The smaller one is about 4.9 million as of 2005, and the larger one is about 5.2 million as of 2005.

Newnan, do you happen to know the population of the area inside the Perimeter? And is there a map or chart showing how population is dispersed in the greater metro area?

[teshadoh]

^ I think the last population figure for ITP was around 700k. There is an older thread around here that discuses it.

[AubieTurtle]

I'd be interested in seeing the location of the metro's population center. As of the 2000 census, it was on Armour Drive near the Lindberg MARTA station. With the southside picking up steam, along with the cooling off of development on the northside, I'd love to see the population center move south, perhaps to Midtown (it'd be a bit much to expect it to move into downtown).

Since it takes a while to crunch all the census data, it'll probably be a year or two after the 2010 census before we know the new population center.

[Andrea]

^Thanks! Do y'all know of any maps that show how the ITP population is distributed?

Also, how can you find out which of the major intersections have the most traffic accidents?

[teshadoh]

I'd be interested in seeing the location of the metro's population center. As of the 2000 census, it was on Armour Drive near the Lindberg MARTA station. With the southside picking up steam, along with the cooling off of development on the northside, I'd love to see the population center move south, perhaps to Midtown (it'd be a bit much to expect it to move into downtown).

Since it takes a while to crunch all the census data, it'll probably be a year or two after the 2010 census before we know the new population center.

The ARC makes a map with the population & employment center for the region - keep in mind it's 10 counties. The population center has surprisingly not been further north of Lenox Mall - it continues to creep north, somewhere around Lenox Rd. This is done yearly, based on ARC population estimate data.

^Thanks! Do y'all know of any maps that show how the ITP population is distributed?

Also, how can you find out which of the major intersections have the most traffic accidents?

Traffic accidents are nearly the same as high population centers - but with a greater emphasis on I-75 & I-85 northbound & the Downtown Connector.

[Andrea]

Traffic accidents are nearly the same as high population centers - but with a greater emphasis on I-75 & I-85 northbound & the Downtown Connector.

In particular I'm looking for the stats on accidents at GA 400 and I-85 -- that's gotta be one of the screwiest freeway interchanges in town, as it was never completed.

Do you have any idea what those numbers might be, or where I could find them, Brad?

[Andrea]

The ARC makes a map with the population & employment center for the region - keep in mind it's 10 counties. The population center has surprisingly not been further north of Lenox Mall - it continues to creep north, somewhere around Lenox Rd. This is done yearly, based on ARC population estimate data.

I hate to be so pesky, but has anyone mapped the distribution of the ITP population?

[Hybrid0NE]

^ I think the last population figure for ITP was around 700k. There is an older thread around here that discuses it.

Atlanta's Population ITP?

[Andrea]

Atlanta's Population ITP?

Aha! Thanks, Hybrid, and everyone else who did the calculations in that thread. That's exactly what I was looking for.