fees coming to Millenium Park

[eagle]

can I get some insight as to why we need $400,000 worth of security for this park? ... lets not assume everyone is getting welfare.

Craig,

I don't know why we need this. I'm not going to jump to the same conclusion as you however. I do think it's pretty easy to reach $400,000 though by the time you pay overtime, benefits, increased liability insurance, maybe an additional vehicle, etc.

I'm a paramedic, not a cop and I'm not assuming everyone is on welfare. I personally take down their medicaid/Kent Health information for billing. There's no assumption there. You and I pay their bills for them yet they have a more expensive phone service than I do, more expensive tv then I do, more expensive satelite tv service than I do, etc. I can't afford these for myself!

I think we've beaten this one to death

[the breeziest]

I found this thread interesting becuase I didnt even know Millenium Park existed until 2 days ago.

I am all in favor of the fees. I really dont know who goes to the park, or what the disturbances were, but I can tell you that if it is for security I am all for it. I have a wife and a young son. I would have no problem paying the fees to ensure that there is more security and that my family is safe in the park.

I am also a proponent of paying for what you use. yes it is a county park or whatever, but it seems very large and probably needs the extra money.

And this might sound harsh, but if you cant afford $4 on a weekend or weekday then you have bigger problems then not being able to go to the park.

[mejane]

You can be working AND on medicaid. For most programs, to receive

any type of help, you must be working minimally 20 hours a week,

often more. It is very difficult to get aid. You can thank a liberal

president for that.

[Rizzo]

Didn't some of my tax money goto this?

[craig d]

I want to light breezy up right now but im gonna restrain b/c i've had enough. until maybe later.

haha

[the breeziest]

I want to light breezy up right now but im gonna restrain b/c i've had enough. until maybe later.

haha

chill homie. chill.

[GRDadof3]

Yeah, we don't need any "lighting up" around here.

[craig d]

breezy i wouldn't light you up in a deragatory fashion, i've got respect for your opinions. I would never cuss at you or anything like that. I'm all about trying to figure out where you're coming from in your remarks and telling you what I think so you know where I'm coming from.

My advice to you is to read this entire thread over since you don't know much about Millennium Park. There is a lot of good information.

[snoogit]

Yeah, we don't need any "lighting up" around here.

Haha...

wait that wasnt meant as a stoner joke?

[GRDadof3]

Haha...

wait that wasnt meant as a stoner joke?

What you do in your own home is none of my business snoogit

[snoogit]

What you do in your own home is none of my business snoogit

just thinking of the day and all, made me put 2 and 2 together in a different way I suppose

[Rizzo]

I think Craig D and Breezy go way back, I don't think they have enough UP - GR history to light eachother up over something. Maybe the folks at G-Rad can elaborate at the possible fued?

[the breeziest]

I think Craig D and Breezy go way back, I don't think they have enough UP - GR history to light eachother up over something. Maybe the folks at G-Rad can elaborate at the possible fued?

Im not sure what this means but ok.

In response to craig d. I see your point and I see where this could be percieved as a poor peoples tax, and maybe it is. But if people effed it up by fighting, not watching their kids (that is just what I have gathered from other people since I do not have first hand experience), the I feel that some fee to cover the county's cost is reasonable. And I can see where there would be lots of costs. As mentioned before you have benefits, salaries, insurance for the park, etc..

My comment about not having the money just comes from a personal belief and work ethic of mine. If I couldnt afford to pay $5 for a day at a park with a beach for a day, I would re-evaluate some things in my life. Thats all. It wasnt meant as a dig on poor people.

[Rizzo]

Theres nothing to re-evaluate in ones life if you can't afford the price to goto a body of water. It better damn well be available to all people if its advertised as public.

I think for me it has a lot to deal with the notion of it being a public park... I don't care about privy or work ethics, its about public spaces for everyone.

If I wanted to, I can go from a public street, travel down through public land and right to the Lake Michigan shorline.... Did I once have to pay for it? no.... Why? Because it's public, thats why -- same concept.

[GR1]

Theres nothing to re-evaluate in ones life if you can't afford the price to goto a body of water. It better damn well be available to all people if its advertised as public.

I think for me it has a lot to deal with the notion of it being a public park... I don't care about privy or work ethics, its about public spaces for everyone.

If I wanted to, I can go from a public street, travel down through public land and right to the Lake Michigan shorline.... Did I once have to pay for it? no.... Why? Because it's public, thats why -- same concept.

I agree Rizzo.

Millennium park was built with money raised by the Secchia Millennium Commission, and it was intended as a "commemorative gift" to the community for the next millennium.

In addition, Millennium park is part of the Kent County Parks Foundation, which "believes that retaining open space for public use enhances the quality of life in our community, and improves the natural environment for all to appreciate"

Did you catch that? "all to appreciate"

Charging fees for this park doesn't give that opportunity to all. Charging fees is fine, but don't call it a public park.

[eagle]

Hey Guys,

Since when has "public" had to mean "free?" Isn't there a fee for the "Public" museum, a fee to camp at public state parks, a fee to park at the public state/city beaches, a fee to drink the city's public water, etc?

Just a thought...

[GRDadof3]

Hey Guys,

Since when has "public" had to mean "free?" Isn't there a fee for the "Public" museum, a fee to camp at public state parks, a fee to park at the public state/city beaches, a fee to drink the city's public water, etc?

Just a thought...

Good point eagle. Even "no fee" neighborhood parks are hardly free.

[mejane]

Good point, Eagle, however it just doens't seem to be in the spirit of the original

intention to charge to swim at the park.

I also wish there was a way to get all the city park pools back into good repair

and open for everyone to enjoy. It would go a long way for city goodwill and

appeal.

[Rizzo]

I don't think there's a point when the attraction is water... See I don't like it when necessities can be bought through the privilege of affording a price of admission. "Public" to me is public for anyone and everyone minus privilege.

[TheCityGuy]

Unfortunately, public goods are often abused. Just do a google search on "tragedy of the commons". Left to their own devices, many people will destroy a public good. I'm not saying this is the case at Millenium Park, but it does happen, and I can understand the need for a fee.

[Rizzo]

I must be misunderstanding this, because I'm now under the impression that the fee will directly pay for police and ambulance service, correct?

[Rizzo]

Nevermind, its about security... I've been there on serveral occasions, wheres the crime? If I had to pay, I'd rather my money goto some kind of life guard station. Why do we need more Bluemen? I saw something like 5 of them on patrol just on one section of beach, how many more does this park need?

[craig d]

I must be misunderstanding this, because I'm now under the impression that the fee will directly pay for police and ambulance service, correct?

What the GRPress reported is that the fee will be for added security. However, there will be an estimated $250,000 surplus after expenses this year. So think what you will about that.

"The security costs included overtime pay to the Kent County Sheriffs Department and the Walker Police Department, Koorndyk said. He said it's possible the costs -- or the revenues generated from the fees -- won't be as high this year." (GR PRESS)

"Koorndyk said crowd control was not a factor in the decision to raise fees."

Here is what he said in today's press.

"Security is key to keeping the beach a quality venue, Koorndyk said. "No one wants to go to a park and not feel safe," he said. " (GR PRESS)

--So its not groups of young teen gangs causing problems b/c as Koorndyk said, crowd control was not a factor.

Me and breezy are cool, and we don't go back at all. I shouldn't have used the phrase "light up" or whatever lol. From his posts at g-rad he seems like a cool guy. At least he knows what hyphy is. haha

The biggest problem I have with this fee is b/c the park was built with the specific idea of it being free for everyone to use. With a fee you obviously start excluding people. Now there are people on the board who think if you're poor then you're prolly poor b/c if your own shortfalls and that's their own opinion. I'm not going to get into why I think a lot of poor people stay poor b/c it will just boil down to one side yelling "bad work ethic!" (which sometimes is true) and the other side yelling "cyclical nature of poverty and exploitation"(which is also true). So I just saved myself a lot of typing.

Even the backers of this fee on UP can recognize the fact that the proposal was passed VERY quickly without a public voice. You cannot deny this. That is a second problem I have with it, those in power making the law without public opinion...pssshhhhhhh get outta here with that.

[Rizzo]

So what do I have to feel safe from? Ok, if it's not crime that I should feel safe from, what else is there that I need a cop to keep me safe from?

Shorten the park hours and put active duty officers that haven't put in the hours to make overtime, just dont charge to enter - give me a break.

[eagle]

Even the backers of this fee on UP can recognize the fact that the proposal was passed VERY quickly without a public voice. You cannot deny this. That is a second problem I have with it, those in power making the law without public opinion

Agreed