Dreamscape

[cdub]

I don't want to touch on the race subject much, but to say the urban renewal wasn't because of white flight, what else caused it? People fled the city to the suburbs because of cheap land and the marketing that the American Dream was the small house with a yard, white picket fence, yadda, yadda. There were no longer residents in the urban areas and no mix of uses. Downtown then became strictly office oriented and required parking. Cars had to go somewhere, and that's why great buildings fell.

Now, the thing that troubles me of all this development is how it's all being catered primarily to the rich. Just look at the marketing campaigns for them, Icon seems to be the only one trying to hit the yuppie crowd. Who else can afford some of these units?

Will the upper-middle class baby boomers contribute greatly to enhancing a vibrant street life? I doubt it. These are the same people who get valet parking at Sambuca and Watermark when there's a parking lot 50 feet away.

It seems as if the developers are creating a playground for the wealthy. I've already mentioned a rumor that Viridian has supposedly a large number of units that individuals will use as a weekend retreat. How can retail survive on the false pretense of urban residents, when these individuals aren't around the majority of the time if this rumor is even slightly true?

What happens if this fad lifestyle (and I hope it's not a fad) dries up and it's off to something new? Have we created a neighborhood that is sustainable and could survive that? We won't have any housing options for those individuals who are providing the retail services people want. If these units continue to sell (and we'll see once we know better on the number of investors) other developers are going to jump on the bandwagon that Viridian started - the private playground/ club for the rich. Maybe I'm the only one worried about the economic gentrification.

[doormanpoet]

My basis for the racial/socioeconomic argument follows some of what Dr. Clapp wrote about in his classic book Urban Sociology and New Town Development.

When designing urban space, culture and natural environment must play a key role and be a major component in that space. Classic urban architecture was replaced with cookie cutter design and brutalist architecture in the suburbs back in the 1950's and it has continued. Remember when every house in a neighborhood looked different?

The racial issues are hard to admit, but since all animals, and we are animals (Family: primates Species: Homo Sapiens, make judgements based on appearance. In the reptile world, skin and scale color are major components to identifying predators. In Avian society, brightly colored feathers are warning signs to be aware. In insectavoria, the colors orange, red and yellow signify venomous species, while black, brown, tan and gray are non-venomous. It is the "nature" of man to make such judgements about other people not like them. I was stating that as a society we have allowed the disintegration of cities based on color and economics.

The diversity of mankind forces us to look beyond ourselves and look at what other cultures and races can offer us. That cannot be done if the majority of my neighbors in my neighborhood are white.

The cocentric zones within the urban core tried to define what each ring was supposed to represent. The intention may have been good, but the result was disasterous. Each ring clearly defined, determined what population was appropriate for what section of town. The white collor section. The blue collor factory and industrial section. The poor immigrant section and the section for those indeginous to the area. (notice the animal reference.)

The business section radiating out to residential and so forth and so on is what the cocentric model implies and states. James Joyce's book Ulysses was based on that model in 1904 Ireland.

The redevelopment of Sobro must break through these cocentric zones and no longer define who should live where. Sobro should be a lesson to the suburbanites (like myself at the moment) that it is not always good to be with "like kind", but to embrace the diversity we can all share. That is what seperates us from the "other" animals in the animal kingdom to which we belong.

[doormanpoet]

I agree with CDUB about the white pickett fence theory. People did want a "retreat" from the urban core and the hustle and bustle of urban street life. Land was cheap but it also led to the destruction of wetlands, natural habitat and animal habitat.

How much deforestization can we have without ruining our natural environment beyond repair? How many rivers and streams must be rerouted to accomodate more housing developments?

I wish I had the answers.

[fieldmarshaldj]

The diversity of mankind forces us to look beyond ourselves and look at what other cultures and races can offer us. That cannot be done if the majority of my neighbors in my neighborhood are white.

See, again, maybe it's the language that I tend to find off-putting. The assumption is that there is something inherently wrong with inhabiting a place that happens to be of similar skin color and that somehow one is necessarily deprived in a negative way. This also presumes that somehow people are precisely alike due to skin color, too, and that we all know is untrue. I think there is far too much an obsession over race in this country, which has reached ludicrous proportions. Whatever happened to the individual ?

[doormanpoet]

I admire the individual, but the fear that imprisons us is the fear that our national enemies exploit. Race is a bigger issue in America than it is in Canada and Europe.

No, I don't want to tackle the immigration debate and how it relates to the built environment!

[fieldmarshaldj]

How much deforestization can we have without ruining our natural environment beyond repair? How many rivers and streams must be rerouted to accomodate more housing developments?

I wish I had the answers.

An interesting fact I heard awhile back is that we have more forests today in America than we did a century ago, despite the fact there were far fewer people at the time.

[fieldmarshaldj]

I admire the individual, but the fear that imprisons us is the fear that our national enemies exploit. Race is a bigger issue in America than it is in Canada and Europe.

No, I don't want to tackle the immigration debate and how it relates to the built environment!

What fear is that, in your estimation ? I think race has been over-exploited in this country beyond belief. We're never going to get past it until we start looking at the individual themself before we look at the color. There's far too many people in this country whose bread and butter is keeping racial divisions going, something Booker T. Washington described perfectly well over a century ago. We know who they are.

[cdub]

What fear is that, in your estimation ? I think race has been over-exploited in this country beyond belief. We're never going to get past it until we start looking at the individual themself before we look at the color. There's far too many people in this country whose bread and butter is keeping racial divisions going, something Booker T. Washington described perfectly well over a century ago. We know who they are.

The fear is difference, like has been mentioned previously. No single group is to fault for racial divisions. The majority of individuals seek others that are the same. The problem with this is in the lack of understanding. By segregating ourselves in different factions, we can not gain any insight into another culture/ race. We are constantly forced to assume instead of find out for ourselves, which fuels stereotypes. Stereotypes lead to further assumptions and less understanding and knowledge.

I agree, as a country and a thread, its time to move on.

[bzorch]

There were other events that facilitated the migration to the suburbs.

1. Mass production of the Automobile

2. Interstate System

3. Dismantling of the streetcar system

4. G.I. Bill

5. Environmental Conditions

6. Leave it to Beaver

Luckily conditions and perspectives are changing that are causing us to relook at the suburban experiment and return back to the urban environment.

1. High Energy Cost

2. Rise of Urban Lifestyle in Pop Culture (i.e. Seinfeld, Friends, Sex and the City)

3. Aging of Population

4. Value of Time

5. Bored with the Suburbs

Then I think about the Bruce Katz Interview about the characteristics for attracting a highly skilled workforce. They included:

1. Density

2. Amenities

3. Walkable Streets

4. Lively Downtown

5. Reclaimed Waterfront

The suburbs just do not have it. They are trying with New Urbanism, which is a more monoculture "urban" environment. Diversity is key to a great urban neighborhood. I do worry about Cdubs point. Will downtown living ever be affordable and if not what affect will that have? I am talking about places the average American can afford. As we had discussed in some other threads, housing prices, particularly in urban neighborhoods has outpaced wages and families/individuals are getting creative as anyway they can to afford the houses.

Will energy prices get so high that people will have to live in the core in order to make ends meet? As James Kunstler surmises in the Film The End of Suburbia ,

"The End of Suburbia shows how the suburban way of life has become normalized and reveals the enormous effort currently put forth to maintain it. On a foreign policy level, it means continued aggressive attempts to secure access to the remaining reserves of oil on the planet in order to prop up and maintain the increasingly dysfunctional and obscene suburban lifestyle. But The End of Suburbia makes it crystal clear that suburban living has very poor prospects for the future. Any attempt to maintain it will be futile. There will eventually be a great scramble to get out of the suburbs as the global oil crisis deepens and the property values of suburban homes plummet. Kunstler asserts that the suburbs will become

[bzorch]

Cdub, Walmart may be coming to SoBro and other urban neighborhoods near you sooner than you think. I saw this yesterday in the Wall Street Journal, but found a link I can post.

Wal-Mart to Enter Urban Markets

Or Maybe a Target

Targeting changes in big box stores

[fieldmarshaldj]

The fear is difference, like has been mentioned previously. No single group is to fault for racial divisions. The majority of individuals seek others that are the same. The problem with this is in the lack of understanding. By segregating ourselves in different factions, we can not gain any insight into another culture/ race. We are constantly forced to assume instead of find out for ourselves, which fuels stereotypes. Stereotypes lead to further assumptions and less understanding and knowledge.

I doubt that 95% of the population actively weighs raising their cultural/racial diversity consciousness when considering purchasing a new home. They're more interested in being close to their jobs, the crime rate, taxes, being near good schools, heck, even water pressure.

[cdub]

I doubt that 95% of the population actively weighs raising their cultural/racial diversity consciousness when considering purchasing a new home. They're more interested in being close to their jobs, the crime rate, taxes, being near good schools, heck, even water pressure.

I'm not saying people choose diversity. There is a lack of diversity in how we develop that helps to contribute to racial segregation. I'll am saying is because we have the segregation, stereotypes will continue to prevail and very little can be learned from each other.

Look at our current suburban neighborhoods and how they are developed. a few hundred homes all in a very close price range. That in itself helps to limit economic, and I feel, ethnic diversity. Many cultures place a large value on extended family, and if one part of a family does well financially, many times they'll stay near the extended family. They don't have the choice to remain geographically close if they were to move into suburban McMansion land because there aren't affordable options for the rest of the family. Old neighborhoods such as Hillsboro/ Belmont, East Nashville do a better job at providing for economic diversity in offering varying units in price range. That may not apply to the houses, but apartments over garages are an interesting (but currently illegal) way for individuals with lower economic stature to assosciate with upper classes. Helps to raise yourself by association and give you something to work for. Being in the projects for example, what do you have to look up to?

[downtown cliff]

...Suburbs would be much better if they were designed with higher standards and better planning. Sadly, most are not. And that is one, of many, reasons that when people vacation in a habitated place (that is, a place not in the mountains or on the beach or on a cruise ship) they go to places like Savannah, San Fransicso, New York and New Orleans. Or to a bed and breakfast in a charming small town. They don't vacation in Plano or Brentwood.

WW

William,

Good point. I think urban neighborhoods have far more in common with traditional small towns than they do with the suburbs. They both encourage community. A good urban environment is really just a giant collection of small towns woven together.

[doormanpoet]

My frustration with living in the suburbs, and my excitement for Sobro is based on several things.

1) I love to walk and trying to walk anywhere in the suburbs is hard because of the lack of sidewalks and expansive parking lots.

2) Cookie cutter houses

3) Mass production of homes that lack quality. My wife and I have basically rebuilt our house because of the poor craftsmanship.

4) Home owners associations that have too much power and tend to dictate life for others.

5) Lack of necessary amenities like Hospitals, public transportation.

6) The high cost of commuting and the destruction of the natural landscape. The less trees we have the more smog we have.

I am hoping Sobro will help in these regards.