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Faith based music complex


debo2040

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Are you guys insane?

You think that Christians only make buisness deals with other Christians?

I don't care what religion you are, this kind of talk is offensive and dangerous. End of story.

I couldnt agree with you more evac. And not only is that talk offensive and dangerous, it is ridiculous as well.

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Are you guys insane?

You think that Christians only make buisness deals with other Christians?

I don't care what religion you are, this kind of talk is offensive and dangerous. End of story.

I grew up in a household that attended a church held these kinds of beliefs. Luckily my parents divoced themselves from the church that taught them that garbage, but yes its out there. And to just lock it up in a closet and throw away the key wont help matter either.

Look at anything said or done by some of the Christian church's main spokespeople today. Look at some polls out there which ask the "Evangelical Right" if they think Church Leaders should be making public policy. Turning a blind eye to the problem wont make it go away.

You're talking about a group of people in GR who grew up in very strict homes where doing business with others, or marrying outside of your own christian denomination was frowned upon! Let alone dealing with people of the Jewish Muslim, or god forbid the Catholic faith! Hiding away the hatred, and blatant class warfare that is infesting itself in the church is more dangerous, and more offensive then telling people the truth about it.

edit: to the mods I think this thread needs to be deleted before it gets out of hand, talking about this issue is not going to help matters any. I can already sense that this thread is going to get waaay too hot in here.

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edit: to the mods I think this thread needs to be deleted before it gets out of hand, talking about this issue is not going to help matters any. I can already sense that this thread is going to get waaay too hot in here.

Nice that you throw this little dose of napalm out there and then ask for the thread to be deleted.

If it's off-topic and getting "way too hot", why keep contributing your fringe views?

This place really needs a time-out from all the goofiness....

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I would just like a detailed description of what exactly I said that was A) dangerous B) offensive C) ridiculous. if said post was directed at me.

I'm not the one who started the thread, so if that's what's ridiculous, score one "goofy" point for the away team. :thumbsup:

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Nice that you throw this little dose of napalm out there and then ask for the thread to be deleted.

If it's off-topic and getting "way too hot", why keep contributing your fringe views?

This place really needs a time-out from all the goofiness....

because I tend to go into rant mode when I feel my values being threatened, and im sure other people do too.

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As a Christian I wish that the Christian music industry was strong enough to justify a billion dollars or 10,000 jobs, but I doubt it.

If Christian music or entertainment is part of this project, I suspect that it will be a small part, just as Christian entertainment is a small part of the arena.

BTW, the Christian music industry is for-profit. The mayor wouldn't be promoting this deal if it didn't pay property taxes.

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because I tend to go into rant mode when I feel my values being threatened, and im sure other people do too.

So your "values" are against a billion dollar investment in your city?

But let me guess, you're against a neighborhood group subsidizing a legal challenge to London's club, too, right?

Hypocritical much?

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So your "values" are against a billion dollar investment in your city?

But let me guess, you're against a neighborhood group subsidizing a legal challenge to London's club, too, right?

Hypocritical much?

localtalent, where did you come up with saying snoogits "values" are against a billion dollar investment?

when he was talking about his values being threatened, i believe he was talking about the earlier comment about Christians not doing business with people of other religions. When someone says something like that that is not true, it is a threat to values.

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Christians not doing business with people of other religions. When someone says something like that that is not true, it is a threat to values.

I just reviewed the entire thread and didn't see that comment anywhere :dontknow:

Maybe it is time to close this topic :rofl:

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I just reviewed the entire thread and didn't see that comment anywhere :dontknow:

Maybe it is time to close this topic :rofl:

I don't know why you can't see it....it's right there....snoogit says:

"I can't imagine a Christian music record label hiring a jewish lawyer.

If this was Jesusland, I would oppose it too."

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localtalent, where did you come up with saying snoogits "values" are against a billion dollar investment?

when he was talking about his values being threatened, i believe he was talking about the earlier comment about Christians not doing business with people of other religions. When someone says something like that that is not true, it is a threat to values.

yes I made the comment, stating about the environment I grew up in as a child, which I disagreed with.

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As a Christian I wish that the Christian music industry was strong enough to justify a billion dollars or 10,000 jobs, but I doubt it.

Actually, it is one of the (if not the) largest selling music genre in the world. Saw a show on PBS about it a while back. Really surprised me.

Not that I want a faith based development like this...

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I'm surprised by this board and I have to say a little dissapointed. I can understand the dissapointment by some, especially after so much speculation, if this Project X ends up being involved with the Christian Music Industry. If your argument is that its a far cry and step down from Google I would have to say you are right but that isn't really much of an argument is it? Just because its not what you build it up in your head to be.

Anyone/anything that would create 10,000 jobs in this area should be welcomed with open arms. The region is not in the position not to. Afterall, beggers can't be choosers. I also think its time we get off our high horse and realize GR does not equal NY. Plain and simple there just isn't a market for some of the higher end things we all wish for and desire. Grand Rapids had a high-end grocery store and they're formally going out of business. Its great to have dreams and aspirations to be build toward but it is easy for those dreams to turn into dillusions.

Finally, to look down upon an aspect of the community which has been a cornerstone to its existence and growth is an injustice to the region's culture and heritage. Like it or not Grand Rapids is a Christian city. Trying to force the city's image and culture into something its not is a little asinine. I for one think the best way for this community to grow would be to build upon its strengths. Like it or hate, Grand Rapids and the area around it is what it is take it or leave it. I'm sure in another month or so this post and conversation will be meaningless but take it for what its worth.

It just upsets me when people try to seperate the religious heritage of this area from the community. In many ways they are one and the same. Of course I'm not preaching religious superiority and to the same token I am a believer in and accepting of alternative religions and beliefs. I don't think my statements about the area and its religious leanings are anything that we don't already know.

In the end, whatever this project is...as long as it brings in the promised amount of jobs and helps in revitalizing the Heartside district of GR...I will be happy.

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I'm surprised by this board and I have to say a little dissapointed. I can understand the dissapointment by some, especially after so much speculation, if this Project X ends up being involved with the Christian Music Industry. If your argument is that its a far cry and step down from Google I would have to say you are right but that isn't really much of an argument is it? Just because its not what you build it up in your head to be.

Anyone/anything that would create 10,000 jobs in this area should be welcomed with open arms. The region is not in the position not to. Afterall, beggers can't be choosers. I also think its time we get off our high horse and realize GR does not equal NY. Plain and simple there just isn't a market for some of the higher end things we all wish for and desire. Grand Rapids had a high-end grocery store and they're formally going out of business. Its great to have dreams and aspirations to be build toward but it is easy for those dreams to turn into dillusions.

Finally, to look down upon an aspect of the community which has been a cornerstone to its existence and growth is an injustice to the region's culture and heritage. Like it or not Grand Rapids is a Christian city. Trying to force the city's image and culture into something its not is a little asinine. I for one think the best way for this community to grow would be to build upon its strengths. Like it or hate, Grand Rapids and the area around it is what it is take it or leave it. I'm sure in another month or so this post and conversation will be meaningless but take it for what its worth.

It just upsets me when people try to seperate the religious heritage of this area from the community. In many ways they are one and the same. Of course I'm not preaching religious superiority and to the same token I am a believer in and accepting of alternative religions and beliefs. I don't think my statements about the area and its religious leanings are anything that we don't already know.

In the end, whatever this project is...as long as it brings in the promised amount of jobs and helps in revitalizing the Heartside district of GR...I will be happy.

I'll try this one MJLO :)

j3shafer:

While I respect your opinions, I take exception to some of your statements:

1) I'm not comparing GR to NY. Never have, never will. In fact, if I wanted to live in NY, I would.

2) Saying that GR has a religious heritage, and that people should "take it or leave it" seems to be quite narrow-minded. I hope you really don't want everyone who is not religious to "leave it". This city would be a ghost town, and you would look around at the people who were left and be annoyed that they were all like you.

3) Beggars can't be choosers? Again, as I've been trying to reinforce throughout this entire thing, we don't need to beg. Stop acting like we are a bunch of losers that should take what it can get. When you fall into that trap, you end up being the chump. I hope our city representatives are not out "begging" for investments.

4) Personally I figured out it wasn't Google a long time ago. Am I disappointed, hardly.

5) Would you accept 10,000 new jobs if they were all in the porno industry? Or in a global on-line gambling system? You can't just say "10,000 jobs, we'll take em!" Show some pride for heaven's sake.

It's OK. We don't suck. Stop acting like it.

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5) Would you accept 10,000 new jobs if they were all in the porno industry? Or in a global on-line gambling system? You can't just say "10,000 jobs, we'll take em!" Show some pride for heaven's sake.

It's OK. We don't suck. Stop acting like it.

I would be deeply saddened if it were a christian record label. I'm a church goer, always have, but i'm also a young progressive thinker, and the mind-set of most of the "Christian" people here are completely opposite of what we need.

We need forward thinking people, who aren't afraid of change, and adapting to technology, not a group that loves to tell you how you're a sinner, how you are wrong, and how their culture is superior.

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Interesting points...please let me clarify what I was trying to say so not to cause any confusion or uneeded outlash.

1) I'm not comparing GR to NY. Never have, never will. In fact, if I wanted to live in NY, I would.

A blanket statement error on my part. I'm glad you said the ladder part. You have chosen to live in Grand Rapids above all other places and I respect that.

2) Saying that GR has a religious heritage, and that people should "take it or leave it" seems to be quite narrow-minded. I hope you really don't want everyone who is not religious to "leave it". This city would be a ghost town, and you would look around at the people who were left and be annoyed that they were all like you.

Once again an error on my part in terms of clarification. I was suggesting that one should take or leave the fact, not the religion. Its great when people choose to live in Grand Rapids, it really does say a lot but when you make that choice you make the choice to accept some of the things that go along with it. In this case that GR leans towards the Christian religion. At the bottom of my statement I mentioned how I was not promoting religious superiority nor meaning to degrade any non-Christian religion.

3) Beggars can't be choosers? Again, as I've been trying to reinforce throughout this entire thing, we don't need to beg. Stop acting like we are a bunch of losers that should take what it can get. When you fall into that trap, you end up being the chump. I hope our city representatives are not out "begging" for investments.

No, you're right, we don't need to beg. But to counter your argument and take it to the other extreme we should not let ourselves have too much pride. Being overly optimistic can be just as damaging as being a pessimist.

4) Personally I figured out it wasn't Google a long time ago. Am I disappointed, hardly.

Google was the only 'big' example I could think off the top of my head. I didn't have time to scan through every single post dealing with Project X but point taken.

5) Would you accept 10,000 new jobs if they were all in the porno industry? Or in a global on-line gambling system? You can't just say "10,000 jobs, we'll take em!" Show some pride for heaven's sake.

It's OK. We don't suck. Stop acting like it.

Of course I would not like jobs in those specific fields in this area. I do not feel the region to be anywhere near that desperation but I don't think one could classify the Christian Music Industry into that category. Its not as glitzy and glamorous as some other industries but it doesn't mean it couldn't be viable in terms of providing respectful jobs. I understand you are passionate about this subject as I was with my post so I will chart those last two sentences up to that. To paraphrase the idea in your first point I don't believe the word 'suck' appeared once in my post.

I think after a little clarification we can come to a gentlemen's agreement that this is merely nothing more than a difference in perspective. As usual, I fear my dramatic writing style has overly emphasized by position.

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