176,336

[stjoe]

I think it is our politicians. They just don't know how to attract industry very well....and when they do, it is spuradic and nothing that reaches critical mass.

I still think they BLEW it with Torrey Pines as one example.

[Florida]

I think it is our politicians. They just don't know how to attract industry very well....and when they do, it is spuradic and nothing that reaches critical mass.

I still think they BLEW it with Torrey Pines as one example.

[Florida]

I say this because Tallahassee doesn't offer the same mix of Education and Recreation as the community they chose or the one they came from (San Diego, CA).

Like you, stjoe, I've been very disappointed they (Torrey Pines) didn't choose to act in our favor. NEITHER City or County Commissions displayed the same since of urgency we here on UrbanPlanet wanted them to. A question still unanswered in my mind is, How much time were local officials given to make Tallahassee's case to Torrey Pines? There's no doubt that FSU would have been a much stronger partner than FAU, with seasoned research faculty, and the MagLab as its competitive edge, but Tallahassee's lack of size, relative inaccessibility, and amenities may have been our downfall. How much do you all feel the "First impression" factor DD talks about play into our efforts to recruit to Innovation Park? I truly believe the Torrey Pines Experience should have been the calling card for this community to rally behind FSU's push for a Research Park (something I know both our stjoe and gibson favor) and a genuine effort to Get Gaines Going, connect the downtown to the Airport, and push for an overhaul of the Southwest side of town.

Turbocor was a great mental boost for me, so too was the Superconductivity research institute that decided to come to town. I believe Turbocor will see tremendous success operating from Tallahassee I can only hope their continued growth will create a stronger tie to this community and not lead them to seek escape. I see so much opportunity for companies that can produce magnetic based products. That said, I really feel like we've really not taken advantage of our asset which is the MagLab, in bringing in more. Researchers keep this place booked with various projects, and I'm sure many of those projects could materialize into companies and products that could be produced and sold right out of Tallahassee. Where are the efforts in building up a community of Magnet Based technologies? A Magnetic Valley if you will? I truly feel like there's something that I'm not understanding about why we've failed thus far to build an empire around the MagLab.

[poonther]

I say this because Tallahassee doesn't offer the same mix of Education and Recreation as the community they chose or the one they came from (San Diego, CA).

[Florida]

I disagree. I think TP wanted to be here w/us more than they wanted to be in Port St. Lucie/Ft. Pierce. We are a much more educated community than St. Lucie county. They may have the ocean but that's about it over us as far as recreation goes. Have you been to Ft. Pierce? Not to to speak ill of it, but it ain't the Palm Beaches, if that's your vision of the area. Port St. Lucie is finally taking off(for years they couldn't give those homes/lots away) mainly for retirees and those that can't afford to live in PBC especially those that work in the service industry in the Palm Beaches. St. Lucie County has a much more "blue-collar" feel to it than Tally even w/the "backwater hollows" that surround us. We are a much more intellectual community for sure.

I think Tally's efforts were good, but not good enough. PSL had the benefit of FAU's prez being the ex Lt. Gov, Pruitt, Senate leader being from there and WCI or whatever corp runs/owns PSL properties giving them a building. If I remember correctly, we didn't invite St. Joe to help w/our efforts at all nor am I sure if we got any of our clout-toting politicos involved in our deal either. And of course the County Commission just sat on their hands and refused to do nothing.

Bottom line IMHO, COT did a good job, but the error was in the fact that it was not a team effort involving not only COT and FSU but also those from the private sector. Hopefully we've learned for that mistake.

[stjoe]

Good stuff from Florida and Poonther.....

"Bottom line IMHO, COT did a good job, but the error was in the fact that it was not a team effort involving not only COT and FSU but also those from the private sector. Hopefully we've learned for that mistake. "

This sums up for me. Look....even with Tally's best foot forward....it will lose some things. But that is OK...AT LEAST you tried. But Torrey Pines was an example of.....'we will never know what was'.

......and get ready to rip me here.....I think it was an example of an FSU project that the area refused to jump in and help out because it was FSU. I think the area has a hang up with this. There is fear with different institutions that it is 'too much about FSU' and they aren't interested because of that. Or they are afraid to help FSU unless they help FAMU and TCC in equal amounts....so it is a paralysis. In the end we have the issue the area would rather have a smaller pond with equal parts than a larger one with one big fish.

That was a hell of a ramble and I am too lazy and tired to defend it....but I wanted to send out that thought. When FSU anted up $40 Million in incentives VERY QUICKLY and area politcians and other groups sat on their hands........well, I will never forget that. That situation said A LOT about what the mind set is. Whether you like or dislike FSU....that was the type of business tally needs....and if FSU is the key to bringing it...who cares. It would be great for Tally. But I think this is a very real obstacle for the area......

[Florida]

......and get ready to rip me here.....I think it was an example of an FSU project that the area refused to jump in and help out because it was FSU. I think the area has a hang up with this. There is fear with different institutions that it is 'too much about FSU' and they aren't interested because of that. Or they are afraid to help FSU unless they help FAMU and TCC in equal amounts....so it is a paralysis. In the end we have the issue the area would rather have a smaller pond with equal parts than a larger one with one big fish.

That was a hell of a ramble and I am too lazy and tired to defend it....but I wanted to send out that thought. When FSU anted up $40 Million in incentives VERY QUICKLY and area politicians and other groups sat on their hands........well, I will never forget that. That situation said A LOT about what the mind set is. Whether you like or dislike FSU....that was the type of business tally needs....and if FSU is the key to bringing it...who cares. It would be great for Tally. But I think this is a very real obstacle for the area......

[Go Gators]

I think we ought to also ask if TK Wetherell deserves some blame. I refuse to believe he is completely innocent with regard to his relationships with the local public. This may not be true, but the perception I have of him is one of a man who doesn't work well with others, to quote a cliche, "my way or the highway".

[Florida]

He comes across that way, but people actually like working with him because he gets stuff done. He even works pretty well with Gators

[poonther]

He comes across that way, but people actually like working with him because he gets stuff done. He even works pretty well with Gators

[Florida]

That has not exactly been the vibe I'm gotten from many of his mid-level management people. Most of them seem to slightly fear him and know that nothing, not even the smallest detail gets approval unless TK gives the thumbs-up. Being a strong leader is one thing, micro-managing is another.

SJ, you'll not get an argument from me over your rant which to me was more just speaking the truth than a rant.

I think the area learned how to come up w/a proposal on the TP deal. It's too bad we had to cut our teeth on such an important piece of the pie.

FL, you are right about TP being lured to PSL b/c of the proximity of Scripps in PBC. However note that TP went to St. Lucie County and not Martin. Martin is the thin county between St. Lucie and Palm Beach. It includes Stuart, Jensen Beach and Hobe Sound. It's a much more affluent county than St. Lucie. While PSL shows itself off pretty well, Ft. Pierce (the county seat) is a pretty rough looking place plagued w/crime and poverty. I think PSL's proximity to Palm Beach County (less than an hour by car) really helped w/their bid. PBC resembles San Diego on many levels..beach, income levels etc and PBC has a good airport w/discount airlines. I'd say w/out PBC, PSL would not have won TP.

[Florida]

'Urban fringe' growth topic of debate

Jan 16, 2008

Tallahassee and Leon County commissioners agreed Tuesday to consider changes in growth policies to reduce pressure from developers who want to build in rural areas.

City and county growth policies describe the "urban fringe" as the area to be developed when sewer service becomes available. There was some agreement but also plenty of disagreement among city and county commissioners. County Commissioner Bill Proctor said that if other commissioners didn't want growth, he would welcome it in his southern Leon County district.

There was agreement, without a formal vote, to consider changes in the rural and urban-fringe land-use categories. Commissioners also agreed to look at other issues involving the "Urban Service Area" where development is encouraged. The 161-square-mile Urban Service Area, where development is encouraged, includes Tallahassee's 103 square miles and other surrounding areas. But it does not include the "urban fringe" land-use category.

Leon County's population is expected to reach 378,000 by 2030, according to planning consultant Wendy Grey. She said a local analysis in 2004 determined the Urban Service Area was large enough to handle that population increase for the next 29 years.

And using state criteria that calculate building at the maximum densities allowed, the area will accommodate population growth for the next 130 years, Grey said.

Proctor said rural landowners should be allowed to build homes on less than the 10 acres that is now required, and County Commissioner Ed DePuy agreed. He also said the commissions need a "reality attack" because developers often are not permitted to build at the allowed densities because of opposition.

Source:TDO.com

[poonther]

^In theory this policy change is a good one b/c it promotes in-fill and helps to guard against sprawl. However I wonder what effect a policy like this would have on home prices? Would it make them go up or down or have no influence at all?

I also agree that the rural limit should be lowered from 10 to at least 5 acres if not lower.

I'm confused by the last line in the report, who said that? Proctor or DePuy? And what do they mean by a "reality attack?" Of course they are talking about NIMBY's there.

[Florida]

From the 2008 Stat Digest:

The value of commercial permits issued in 2007 was nearly double 2006 levels. A large contributor

to the variability in commercial permit values over the past decade has been the annual presence (or

absence) of large retail projects and/or new/expanded medical facilities. The two largest commercial

permits (by valuation of the permit) issued in 2007 were for retail buildings within Fallschase:

$10 million for a 217,226 sq. ft. Super Walmart and $9 million for a 151,127 sq. ft. Costco Wholesale.

Two other large retail permits issued ($6 million each) were for two Kohl's Department Stores

(101,576 sq. ft. and 96,264 sq. ft.). There were five hotel buildings permitted in 2007 totaling

455 rooms. These projects include: (2) 121 room Value Place Hotels, (2) Country Inn & Suites

(60 and 65 rooms) and an 88 room Springhill Suites.

[Florida]

Plan to limit state review of developments unpopular

...with who!?!?

City, county to vote on issue at hearing tonight

MARCH 11, 2008

A proposal to limit state and regional agencies' review of developments within certain parts of Tallahassee faces a controversial public hearing tonight.

Advertisement

Planners with the Tallahassee-Leon County Planning Department say their proposal could reduce the time it takes to review certain developments from 11 months to two or three months. They say that would make housing more affordable and benefit the environment by targeting growth within the city center instead of encouraging sprawl.

"This is just one tool that we're looking at to encourage more development and redevelopment to occur within the area of our community where all the infrastructure already exists," said Wayne Tedder, the department's director.

CONA and the Department of Community Affairs disagrees with the city's move. CONA feels the city hasn't done enough "planning/studies" to move forward with this process, and DCA feels the city has failed to show how they will fund future infrastructure needs.

DCA had absolutely no credibility with me. First, they're probably the biggest violators of their own rules -- second, the whole point in choosing this Urban Service Boundary would be to concentrate future development on areas where infrastructure already exists, thus making it easier to do infill and redevelopment projects with greater ease. Denying this would be a big endorsement for Sprawl.

Source: Tallahassee Democrat

[Go Gators]

^ How are they the biggest violators of their own rules?

[jpl02]

As a planner at DCA, I have to agree with Florida.

[south park county]

I spoke with a member of DCA who said that the whole idea of challenging this plan was to prevent unfettered development. Sounds like his understanding of the goals of this proposition was different than mine.

[Go Gators]

As a planner at DCA, I have to agree with Florida.

[Florida]

City, county reject proposal to streamline development review

City of Tallahassee and Leon County officials on Tuesday nixed a controversial proposal to eliminate automatic state review of developments in certain parts of town. The decision comes after neighborhood activists and the state of Florida's Department of Community Affairs (DCA) faulted the proposal from the Tallahassee-Leon County Planning Department for failing to get enough public input on the proposal, among other deficiencies. Just before the commissioners were set to vote on the issue Tuesday evening, planning staff changed their recommendation and advised them to nix the proposal. "We put forth our best effort," said Wayne Tedder, the planning department's director. "We do not feel comfortable that it can be justified before DCA." Tedder said that moments before the meeting the city attorney shared concerns that the proposal might not survive a challenge by the state.

Article: Tallahassee Democrat

[Go Gators]

The city saved itself from a lawsuit from Pelham. He's tough.