176,336

[fivesfella]

Oh, lord, anything but Jax. That town is a blight. The downtown is in terrible shape. Traffic is nasty. Everything's miles from everything else. Businesses downtown keep getting shot up at night. I don't know anything about the city government, so I can't speak to that, but I do know that I hate having to go over there for any reason.

I believe the city proper has a population of around 780,000, and I feel sorry for each and every one of them.

I should add: that's not to say they don't have things I'd love to see here (cultural festivals, museums, theatres), just that if Tallahassee wants to use it as a model for growth, it should be used as a model of what not to do.

[Florida]

Really?? I know Jax as a passer thru. I've never spent more than a day there. My last visit was in September when I was helping a friend buy a new car there. (A dealership we don't yet have, but will get soon). It didn't seem that terrible to me. We've got rough spots in Tallahassee, but I'd say we could still be an excellent model for a city looking to grow to our size.

I'm just thinking about our geography, our natural environment, the type of people who live here, and the things we have and want to get. It seems we could definately stand to borrow an idea or two from JAX. Their newspaper offers great ideas for ways to improve ours, they've got some good things going with mass transit that I think we can observe. They've been able to grow and maintain a great bit of their natural environment. They now have an NFL team, the skyline is growing.

I'm just saying...

[krazeeboi]

Jacksonville isn't perfect, but it's on MUCH more of an upswing than some give the city credit for.

[Florida]

I think we all need to take a serious look at JAX. Like Krazeeboi said, this City is experiencing some positive things right now. If we can visit Chatanooga, we can visit Jacksonville. I'm tired of us saying we love Florida so much, and not wanting to be anything like it.

[fivesfella]

I'm tired of us saying we love Florida so much, and not wanting to be anything like it.

[Florida]

Yet there has to be something good about it for it to continue to grow the way it is growing.

[SkyDave]

I used to live in Jax and IMHO we definitely don't want to be it in this life or the one to come!!! The quality of life is terrible, it is crime ridden, has traffic nightmares, and the water quality is horrendous. However, it is a true business center but it came with a steep price.

I would much rather look to Greenville, South Carolina or Greensboro, N.C. as truer comparisons. They are very beautiful cities with hills, trees,vibrant downtowns and healthy diverse business communities.

*****************************************************************************

BTW here is a chart from the Orlando Sentinel concerning Tallahassee growth using the latest census estimates figures for 2006. The government tends to grossly underestimate its figures, but we still show steady growth. I believe everyone will be surprised when the true 2010 census numbers come out.

<H2 style="MARGIN: auto 0in">Search: 2006 Population Estimates for Florida</H2>AREA:

Tallahassee city

2006 Estimate: 159,012

2005 Estimate: 157,203

Growth from 2005 to 2006: 1,809

2004 Estimate: 155,931

2003 Estimate: 155,098

2002 Estimate: 152,218

2001 Estimate: 151,684

2000 Estimate: 152,677

Official 2000 Census: 150,624

Growth from Official 2000 Census to 2006 Estimate: 8,388

[Go Gators]

I dont think Jax is necessarily a good model. It should be referred to as the largest county in the state, not city. Its a skewed statistic. You want to go see a downtown that is dead during the week, and even moreso during the weekends, than Jax is the ideal place to go. Its got a real country feel with some tall buildings, thats about it in my opinion.

[Florida]

I'm not saying we want to be like Jacksonville. All I'm saying is they must have some strengths we need to explore as we grow and seek to bring in a diverse economy, more jobs, more people and amenities.

It can't be THAT terrible with the rate of growth it is experiencing.

[Go Gators]

They have Florida/Georgia game and bowl games, and a great minor league baseball facilities for events. I guess those are positives!

[Florida]

Exactly....

... and what about their local media? Is there nothing we can get from that?

[Go Gators]

Exactly....

... and what about their local media? Is there nothing we can get from that?

[csmurphy8885]

I saw Guns and Roses there last holloween.. navigating the highways into the arena and out was a breeze. Even slightly drunken and anxious to return to tally, we were able to wing it, following highway signs, to get back onto I-10. In that aspect, it was nice cruising along the bridges, under, and overpasses. I like the use of neons on bridges over the river. I think the lighting on the high-rises as well are something we should have done already. maybe some attention to the vehicular conveniences ( I have said many times before ) would provide a more convenient DT area. Someplace to put the vehicular traffic away form our pedestrian friendly parks and places DT. A bypass! What a foreign concept!

But the negatives. I have a friend south of DTJAX and (like the drive west once you reach the "city limit" signs) it is forever in a car. It is a huge plunder of fossil fuels having to trek all over. He always makes fun of me when i complain about driving "all the way across town." He says when he does it he needs a nap sack and a snack! there is alot to be said about a city where you can get any where in 30 minutes.

The sprawl we see all over the state is literally killing the state. Just drive by falls chase (as much as i love development) and see our future.

I am un-wavering in my favor for infill developments and I think our city needs to apply a smart time table of infrastructural development geared toward the DT savior! we don't have to have a population living 50 stories up, but we need to provide a reason to for-go everyones desire for acreage and picket fences. no one wants to sit on a John Deer when its 97 degrees outside (I darn sure don't miss it). Or have their children bitten by a cotton mouth displaced by their neighbors! People forget how wild florida can be... Far east end of southwood is very swampy, I have seen more than one gator on williams rd!

We need a loop. Chicago style! Imagine the views swooping around our city! It is a dream of mine to see such a development. I garantee it would solve way more problems than the loss costs to some from eminent domain's acquisitions of land.

Plus, gas prices will not drop, why live so far away. The growth is inevitable and symbolic of a healthy community.

But why be like that!

Jax's DT system of highways is the part i think we could benefit most from. I-95 helps (i think that is what is is, right?) and the Atlantic Ocean in itself need not lack mention. And thier arport... But i would rather not see the crime. and desolate feeling- Or that particular NFL team (lol)

TJ, you really love our N. Fla neighbor don't you!

[south park county]

I dont think Jax is necessarily a good model. It should be referred to as the largest county in the state, not city. Its a skewed statistic. You want to go see a downtown that is dead during the week, and even moreso during the weekends, than Jax is the ideal place to go. Its got a real country feel with some tall buildings, thats about it in my opinion.

[Florida]

I'm enjoying this conversation.

Murphy, I love Florida, and yes that means I love Jacksonville. Not anywhere near the love I have for Tallahassee, but I do have respect for many things they've been able to accomplish. I think in my mind I have an idea of the feel a city our size should have and I don't think the places we've surveyed thus far give me that feeling.

I suppose the point I'm making is, Jacksonville is dealing with mass tranist issues, they're dealing with the rising cost of energy, they're revitalizing their downtown, they've got discount carriers at their airport, and in my opinion a much better newspaper than we do. Why can we trek over for a fact finding mission to do as some have said borrow from the good and learn from the bad.

[poonther]

Now don't get me wrong, I don't hate our big sister to the east, but it is sprawl-topia. It seems like a city of little communities and none of them have anything in common or seem to relate to each other at all. The do have a better airport than we do for sure, but then again they are a metro w/a pop. of 1.3+ million (almost 4 times our size) plus the metros of Brunswick, Ga and Gainesville, FL use their services a lot which helps. I'm definitely not a big fan of their newspaper, Times-Union, just too conservative for my taste. Also their murder rate in that last few years has soared, much too high for a city even that size.

If we could learn anything from them it is their business community model. They've done a great job w/that lately. I also like the neon on their bridges and the new St. John's Town Center is great especially w/the high-end stores they'll be bring in there w/their second phrase. That in itself will make for some good day-trip shopping from Tally.

I agree TJ, we could learn some good stuff from FL's bigger cities, if we pick and choose what to look at. However, I stand by the fact that the really innovative planning is now occurring from the Rockies westward. Those are places I'd like to see us copy especially college towns like Boulder (yeah there's a lot of money there) but also Fort Collins, Tuscon, AZ and most of the mid-size cities in Oregon.

[Go Gators]

I suppose the point I'm making is, Jacksonville is dealing with mass tranist issues, they're dealing with the rising cost of energy, they're revitalizing their downtown, they've got discount carriers at their airport, and in my opinion a much better newspaper than we do. Why can we trek over for a fact finding mission to do as some have said borrow from the good and learn from the bad.

[Florida]

Working with Jacksonville to figure out how they've gotten the things we want is my point. Who was responsible for the neon lights on the bridges and how did you get them? What did it take to get Southwest to serve your airport? By what method's are you dealing with traffic congestion? In what ways are you going about building the local economy?

We may not get many of the things we want immediately but eventually we will. I'm saying this because the companies we can seek to serve us, are likely the ones already providing their services in Jacksonville. This disconnect between Tallahassee the state Capital and the state's Largest city, which also happens to be our nearest neighbor of significant size, should be disolved. This region of Florida could really flourish if we work together. Very similar to the connection between South Florida and Orlando.

You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned Jax's business climate... we need to get the recipie!

[AlaninTally]

Jacksonville has always been a mystery to me in some ways. It's got big city character but still feels very blue collar and rural. It's got beaches but there is a disconnect between that beachy vibe and then the rest of the city. Most of these discrepancies are due to the sprawled out nature of Jacksonville.

I think what Jacksonville does right is their business sector, beautification, and attracting retail/restaurants. Seeing the bridges lit up at night is very nice. They really play up their rivers very well. They are getting a lot of stores that Tally will eventually hopefully get but in the meantime as poonther said it will make for some nice day shopping trips.

However, I don't want their crime rate or their sprawl. All cities have their bad areas and such, but lately Jax is getting a wee bit scary.

Tally forgets its strengths. We can have that small town vibe but still have excellent amenities, shopping, restaurants, etc...Hello, Gaines Street! We are slowly playing up our eco-vibe but we are ruining ourselves by not exploiting our brain factories of FAMU and FSU. We need to find ways to keep graduates in Tally and also attract other higher educated graduates.

[Florida]

Ok so tell me this... would you prefer a large town that feels small or a small town that feels large?

I tend to favor the later, but I'm curious about what the rest of you think.

[Go Gators]

Ok so tell me this... would you prefer a large town that feels small or a small town that feels large?

I tend to favor the later, but I'm curious about what the rest of you think.

[fivesfella]

Depends. Does the large town feel small because of the lack of options or because of the trees and community-style layout? Does the small town feel large because of the culture or because of traffic and sprawl?

[poonther]

Ok so tell me this... would you prefer a large town that feels small or a small town that feels large?

I tend to favor the later, but I'm curious about what the rest of you think.

[csmurphy8885]

the sports on the news today mentioned a new outdoor football league!!! Several players on the Titans apparently are interrested. Is tallahassee making a bid for a team?! A nice minor leauge football stadium near 90 and I-10 would be way better than a baseball diamond!!!

I cant find anything else about this...

This is a step in the right direction if we can capture a team. The Tallahassee Cotton Mouths is my vote for a name!! lol.

We could make a small step with this league! Maybe we can be more succesful without the Civic Center as the middle man.

(((Could we get another stadium centrally located, DT somewhere?))) --I would guess the location of the Golf course just SE of DT... maybe

[SkyDave]

I prefer a small town that feels large. Massive urban sprawl is like a deadly disease. Once it starts.....It never stops...