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Club Diesel - Downcity


Dan

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I don't read what I post before posting it, so I hope this comes out ok.

Jen is right, safety is a legit concern and not NIMBY at all. With downtown growing as a neighborhood, the police need to address this. All the cops descending on Downcity at 1:45am doesn't address the streetsweepers walking to the club at 11:00 after dorm room pre-game, hoping they can stand up straight at the door.

The law that exempts downtown clubs from the 21+ rule comes from the era of the Westminster St. pedestrian mall, so its no wonder the scene has become out of control today. Michael Kent has said that he and Buddy Cianci were close and Mayor Ciccilline is picking on him now. Think about that. The college kids can drink because that "Old Providence" culture exists in the clubs. Don't ask, don't tell. I used to drink at The Bar across from J&W every Friday when I was 18-19. $1 drinks, 18 to get in, and everybody drinks!

There is still very little enforcement of the underage drinking today, and the money is made at the bar - not the door. Is this a legal business model? Its as legal as dealing drugs! [if a crime occurs and nobody sees it, was a crime committed?] Therefore if the cops don't stop it (or if they can't, as they claim), the kids will drink and the clubs keep making money and paying taxes (and the city winks). Will the law be amended to throw out the downtown exemption? Probably not!

Remember Saki's late-night problems? They were selling pizza to rowdy drink-and-fight club kids. That resulted in a mandatory 2am closing time for restaurants as well as the clubs. Was that move fair to Saki's and places like Fida's?

We need to enact laws that can be enforced. That's my point. The downtown exemption got the clubs and the nightlife here in the beginning. Now we have to figure out the best way to smooth out the problems and make the Providence club scene an attraction and not a nuisance.

Mikey, if the clubs were on Allens Ave. you know you'd need to get a fake ID right?! And I turn 25 tomorrow, so in another year I will be an old man. (18-25 = young) :(

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And I turn 25 tomorrow, so in another year I will be an old man. (18-25 = young) :(

Happy B-day Dan...but you're worried about getting old at 25? Dude, I turn 40 on Friday. Now that's over the hill territory! :cry:

I used to frequent the clubs Jen mentioned - the Living Room, Met, and espically the Elbow Street Cafe (great jazz music!). I think the demographic has changed. There is a lot more crudeness, foul language, etc. in today's nightclubs than of yesteryear. The police need to get tough on the troublemakers and make examples of them. Ordinance changes in giving the police the authority to arrest for infractions such as vulgarity and loud noise should be in place too, if they don't exist.

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even the clubs could be restaurants by day.

Jerky's serves lunch now. I don't know how long they've been doing it, but I saw a sandwich board out front last week.

Tricky subject, but count me in with the crowd that believes staggering closing times will help a lot. Not every club needs to be open until 4AM, but allowing the option, along with keeping last call around 2AM can't hurt.

Yeah, and come 3am it becomes a free for all three ring circus.

Usually due to a high number of 18-20 year old Americans.

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ah, ya finally made it. :) Where did you stay and what did you do?

I ended up staying at the Holiday Inn, that was the only hotel that was availible downtown. I was able to visit many of the buildings that are under construction or have been renovated all over the city from downtown to Federal Hill (being Italian this was an amazing area and was nice to see so many Italian restaurants clustered into one area and all of them being packed) to Olneyville and over to the College Hill area (Brown, RISD) which I have to say is an amazing area of the city...one that I think more people should learn about because I think it may be forgotten about in the downtown boom.

On the Club Diesel note I think that clubs need and should stay downtown. If clubs downtown move to another area of the city what would be done with all their vacant spaces. Can someone really guarantee that all these spaces will be filled with new stores or restaurants, etc. and that all the bars will reopen. I also think that club scenes in smaller cities really draw people into downtown for a reason and throughout there areas locals, students, young professionals, etc. know that even if they dont like the city there are great clubs there.

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It'd be nice if Providence started thinking of itself as more of an aspiring big city and instead of closing down these clubs extending the hours they're allowed to stay open. They shouldn't be wasting energy trying to close down one of downtown's main cultural destinations. Maybe someone should start a petition arguing for a more sensible approach to dealing with nightlife related problems.

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maybe the folks who work selling the lofts can enlighten, but when you buy a loft or an apartment or living space in an industrial area, you have to sign off on your complaining rights to thinks like noise and noxious smells and the like. Didn't any of the folks buying lofts downtown have to do the same thing? Or at least be strongly advised that it is possible that things might get a little "happenin'" in the evenings?

Not to excuse the abhorrent behavoir of the club goers downtown, mind you, but i'm just curious if there's anything in the purchase or lease agreement about living downtown and dealing with it.

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I ended up staying at the Holiday Inn, that was the only hotel that was availible downtown.

Wow, your visit to Providence is like de Tocqueville touring America...

Glad you liked the city! Any other impressions?

the College Hill area (Brown, RISD) which I have to say is an amazing area of the city...one that I think more people should learn about because I think it may be forgotten about in the downtown boom.

Oh, trust me, it hasn't been forgotten at all. There's new construction and renovation of older, historic structures going on all over the place and the retail areas are thriving as much as their layout allows...

I also think that club scenes in smaller cities really draw people into downtown for a reason and throughout there areas locals, students, young professionals, etc. know that even if they dont like the city there are great clubs there.

Agreed... Are Hartford's clubs anywhere near the new condos towers and renovations going on downtown there?

- Garris

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i've been away for a few days up in the white mountains... i'll summarize my thoughts on this subject after reading some of the stuff here.

a bar cannot use underage drinking as their business model (that was one of the oddest remarks i've heard). the cops are not disallowed from raiding 18+ places if they suspect underage drinking is going on. there's no reason a 2am last call and 4am closing time won't work. people won't stay out that long, and those that really just enjoy dancing will continue to stay. 2 extra hours can't cause that much financial strain on the clubs. jen's analogy of the people downtown and the people by the airport was right on. clubs should not be forced out of downtown, it's the whole reason downtown is a destination. the biggest troublemakers are the 18-22 year old crowd. enforcement of the drinking age laws will stop many of the problems. the biggest issue i think we have is that providence is known for easy underage drinking, and not even jsut in the clubs. not that they're big destinations for young people, but blakes and the trinity don't card (at least i've never seen them card, not even people who looked 5 years younger than they are).

i'd hate to see it become a norm, but in many areas around boston, you cannot drink without a MA ID. i've seen this often in waltham and some parts of brighton (i don't remember the names of teh bars, my friends lived there a few years ago, but they were on moody st in waltham and i think washington st in brighton). i have a feeling that is the decision of the bar and not the state/city.

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the biggest troublemakers are the 18-22 year old crowd. enforcement of the drinking age laws will stop many of the problems. the biggest issue i think we have is that providence is known for easy underage drinking, and not even just in the clubs.

I've pointed this out before, but my younger brothers used to drive from the Cape to Providence when they were underage because they knew they could drink.

PPD is not doing nearly enough by far to enforce drinking age laws. I work at a college and we've sent them lists of package stores and bars where we know our kids are being served (at one bar a 15 year old summer student was served and had to be hospitalized). The response from PPD was silence. PPD cannot not enforce the laws then cry foul at the results of the non-enforcement. Part of the issue is details, the officers get details because of the problems, if there were no problems, there would be no details.

i'd hate to see it become a norm, but in many areas around boston, you cannot drink without a MA ID.

I ran into this in Maine at a package store when I tried to by with a valid MA ID.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Diesel neighbor describes noise, safety fears. A nearby resident says noise from rowdy patrons often wake her from sleep, and sometimes club goers solicit her as she walks home. [ProJo.com]

you know, testimony like that makes me angry. "i assume it was club diesel because there were lots of people outside it earlier". has she seen the other clubs in providence on a weekend night? there are long lines to get into all of them.

it will be an absolute shame if they close the club based on this woman's and the other guy's testimony since neither of them have actually seen the patrons come out of diesel and start causing problems.

and i want to know what the clubgoers could possibly be soliciting her for? at least they don't leave the area when you walk by... i've had bums follow me for blocks in providence trying to get me to give them some cash.

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you know, testimony like that makes me angry. "i assume it was club diesel because there were lots of people outside it earlier". has she seen the other clubs in providence on a weekend night? there are long lines to get into all of them.

it will be an absolute shame if they close the club based on this woman's and the other guy's testimony since neither of them have actually seen the patrons come out of diesel and start causing problems.

and i want to know what the clubgoers could possibly be soliciting her for? at least they don't leave the area when you walk by... i've had bums follow me for blocks in providence trying to get me to give them some cash.

What makes me angry, still, is the fact that she moved downtown in order to be closer to the action but she really just wants it to be the east side but urbanized.

I went to a concert at Lupo's last night which of course becomes Club Diesel afterward. Even on a thursday night, there was a large police presence. This begs two questions. One - where are the cops at the end of the night when all of these "problems" occur, and two (a legitimate case, I guess) is Providence relaly only worried about this because they don't want to pay the cops to do that detail?

The selectman in this case is hardly worthy of his elected office either. Talk about gladhanding to try and reap more votes. Form a real opinion out of knowledge instead of reactionary crap to your loudest residents.

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Am I the only one that thinks that the Projo fails in journalism reporting? Is it really necessary or fair to quote two people who can only "assume" and not hear from people that appreciate the music scene? I guess I shouldn't be alarmed since we live in an age when sensational media news is king? Rita Cosby...Greta Van??,...

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Am I the only one that thinks that the Projo fails in journalism reporting? Is it really necessary or fair to quote two people who can only "assume" and not hear from people that appreciate the music scene? I guess I shouldn't be alarmed since we live in an age when sensational media news is king? Rita Cosby...Greta Van??,...

here's the problem... club diesel isn't really the music scene. lupo's is. i don't think they have problems before or after shows at lupo's. the problems start after club diesel empties out. diesel only operates on thursday-saturday nights. the other 4 nights it's solely lupo's and i don't think they have problems on those nights (and honestly, i'm not surprised).

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is Providence relaly only worried about this because they don't want to pay the cops to do that detail?

The venue pays for the police detail. It is $179.12 for a uniformed patrolman and $44.78 per hour for every hour over four hours. The rate raises through the ranks to $310.64 for a Major and $77.66 for every hour over 4. A mounted officer is $195.24 and $48.81 for every hour over 4. Plain clothes officers are more. If there are four officers or more requested for the detail a ranking officer of at least Sergeant is also sent.

Far from worrying about paying for the detail, the union is worried about not getting the details.

Am I the only one that thinks that the Projo fails in journalism reporting?

No you are not the only one. Someone mentioned at the last forum meeting how the only news about Providence the Journal reports is sensationalistic and people living in Westerly or Tiverton who never come to Providence would think it were some sort of mini-Baghdad.

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The venue pays for the police detail. It is $179.12 for a uniformed patrolman and $44.78 per hour for every hour over four hours. The rate raises through the ranks to $310.64 for a Major and $77.66 for every hour over 4. A mounted officer is $195.24 and $48.81 for every hour over 4. Plain clothes officers are more. If there are four officers or more requested for the detail a ranking officer of at least Sergeant is also sent.

This is what I figured but I can't reconcile why the city in general wants to close the place down if it is putting money in the coffers.

I understand the "problems" of the residents, but surely there is some kind of compromise between letting chaos reign and just closing the place. I know several people here have suggested staying open longer. Maybe instead of staying open longer actually enforce a rule that they stop serving at 1 AM or midnight. Let people pay extra at the door to make up for the lost drink revenue. I'm not sure. Or maybe one of those things is to get the police detail later in the evening. We honestly weren't sure why there were so many policemen at 10:30. The ratio was maybe 6 people for every cop.

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God forbid the cops have to encounter violence and enforce rules. Also, is there an explanation given as to why a pilot program for a 4 a.m. closing time is not in consideration? It seems like the clubs are arguing with 2 year olds. They get no response when it comes to trying to work out an agreement that will potentially fix everything. That obviously shows that anyone who is anti-nightlife in this case has other motives... and that is a shame.

Who will have the final say in this case? A judge? or the Mayor? I'm a little confused when it comes to who is invloved.

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