Club Diesel - Downcity

[Cotuit]

elitist viewpoint from radical transplants.

Its comments like that that give Providence a bad name.

[MichaelQ]

I hope this thread isn't going to get hijacked with another elitist viewpoint from radical transplants. Variety is the spice of life. That's what makes a city unique and interesting and one of the main reasons that Pvd is still on the upswing......

Indeed, variety is a key factor in creating and maintaining a vibrant city. However, intelligent, forward-thinking, non-elitist individuals can disagree on what variety means. Does variety mean that a city should allow potentially dangerous environments to remain, fester, and grow, even if it possesses the potential to rid itself of them, for the simple sake of keeping things variable? Some people think it does. I do not.

[runawayjim]

Indeed, variety is a key factor in creating and maintaining a vibrant city. However, intelligent, forward-thinking, non-elitist individuals can disagree on what variety means. Does variety mean that a city should allow potentially dangerous environments to remain, fester, and grow, even if it possesses the potential to rid itself of them, for the simple sake of keeping things variable? Some people think it does. I do not.

do you consider a club a potentially dangerous environment? i do not. his clubs are being hit hard by the cops because of the violence outside them (which can be argued to be unrelated to the club since it happened in a parking lot). also, his clubs are notorious for underage drinking. i think that alone is reason enough for the cops to be hard on him. if he can't make money without serving minors, he shouldn't be in business anyways.

while what jerry said might have made providence come across as unhappy with transplants... he has a point. people who move downcity and decide they want the clubs to move out are being very elitist (except in their hatred for the 2am traffic bottleneck). the clubs were there first and are doing quite well for themselves. i don't think they should be kicked out because people live there. they should be held responsible for the problems they cause (like serving minors and fights that happen right outside their doors from their patrons), but other than that, they should remain where they are. if the city wants to create a nightlife district, it should aid the clubs by helping alleviate some of the costs of relocation and giving them some incentives to move. and by incentives i don't mean... "move or lose your license".

[MichaelQ]

do you consider a club a potentially dangerous environment? i do not. his clubs are being hit hard by the cops because of the violence outside them (which can be argued to be unrelated to the club since it happened in a parking lot). also, his clubs are notorious for underage drinking. i think that alone is reason enough for the cops to be hard on him. if he can't make money without serving minors, he shouldn't be in business anyways.

while what jerry said might have made providence come across as unhappy with transplants... he has a point. people who move downcity and decide they want the clubs to move out are being very elitist (except in their hatred for the 2am traffic bottleneck). the clubs were there first and are doing quite well for themselves. i don't think they should be kicked out because people live there. they should be held responsible for the problems they cause (like serving minors and fights that happen right outside their doors from their patrons), but other than that, they should remain where they are. if the city wants to create a nightlife district, it should aid the clubs by helping alleviate some of the costs of relocation and giving them some incentives to move. and by incentives i don't mean... "move or lose your license".

I don't think it's a club owner's responsibility to control what happens after the club closes (to a certain extent). And by no means do I think the clubs should have to leave simply because the population of downtown is growing with "elitists" (someone is not an elitist simply because he or she is advocating on behalf of his or her interests). Time and time again, however, it has been demonstrated that some of the clubs downtown are allowing under-age kids to drink at their bars (e.g., what happened at the Sidebar in February). Those are the places I consider "potentially dangerous." I could go on and on about why this is bad on so many levels but I don't have time. Simply put, it has been my observation that when young kids drink, they get sick, drive drunk, get in accidents, and act violently at a greater frequency than 21+ folks.

I don't think we should, by law, allow all ages nights at clubs if the bar will be open and if a club/bar/restaurant is caught serving kids under-age or not checking IDs, then they gotta be punished in some way.

[runawayjim]

I don't think it's a club owner's responsibility to control what happens after the club closes (to a certain extent). And by no means do I think the clubs should have to leave simply because the population of downtown is growing with "elitists" (someone is not an elitist simply because he or she is advocating on behalf of his or her interests). Time and time again, however, it has been demonstrated that some of the clubs downtown are allowing under-age kids to drink at their bars (e.g., what happened at the Sidebar in February). Those are the places I consider "potentially dangerous." I could go on and on about why this is bad on so many levels but I don't have time. Simply put, it has been my observation that when young kids drink, they get sick, drive drunk, get in accidents, and act violently at a greater frequency than 21+ folks.

I don't think we should, by law, allow all ages nights at clubs if the bar will be open and if a club/bar/restaurant is caught serving kids under-age or not checking IDs, then they gotta be punished in some way.

there needs to be more raids and stricter punishments for those who are caught serving minors, as well as for minors who are caught using a fake ID.

longer terms for suspension of liquor licenses, as in none of those "close at 12am or 1am instead of 2am" crap. suspension should mean no liquor for a month. if it drives the place to close so be it. 3 strikes and you're out (renewed on a yearly basis). after the 3rd strike, you lose your liquor license for a year and have to re-apply for it as well as show reason for why they should allow you to have it after it being taken away. show proof of how you plan on avoiding underage drinking.

i don't think wrist bands and stamps are the answer. the bartenders should card everyone with a wrist band anyways and not serve those without them at all.

[CtownMikey]

soo has anyone been the other Roxy's around the country??!

[Jerry2]

while what jerry said might have made providence come across as unhappy with transplants... he has a point. people who move downcity and decide they want the clubs to move out are being very elitist (except in their hatred for the 2am traffic bottleneck). the clubs were there first and are doing quite well for themselves. i don't think they should be kicked out because people live there. they should be held responsible for the problems they cause (like serving minors and fights that happen right outside their doors from their patrons), but other than that, they should remain where they are. if the city wants to create a nightlife district, it should aid the clubs by helping alleviate some of the costs of relocation and giving them some incentives to move. and by incentives i don't mean... "move or lose your license".

That's essentially what I was saying. This road has been travelled on in more than 1 thread already so there's no point in rehashing the obvious conflicting viewpoints that many of of us have here when it comes to this subject. What I find completely ironic is that Cornish Associates is pushing for solutions to integrate and harmonize the co-existence of retail, residential, and nightlife, but the very people that moved into there units and outside the immediate vicinity have the biggest "issues" with anything that doesn't conform to their standards. I think that if people stopped complaining about what they don't want and perpetuate hidden racist undertones in statements like McDonalds and Pvd. public school students, then maybe the area could gel a little better. Like...for example...what is the whole issue with the people in the Fountain St. building threatening a lawsuit against Murphy's for wanting to put something in that empty space? Nobody answered that question. Whatever your opinion is....your entitled to your own...but I can't believe the audacity that some people have ( and quite a few people here have) to insinuate that something does not belong in their perfect utopia vision of the city. Why don't we ship all the blacks, hispanics, and trashy Kennedy Plaza people to Block Island while we're at it? I mean come on...It's one thing to have ideas of how to improve a situation or place..it's another to insinuate that everything outside of one's own comfort zone is bad....

[Cotuit]

It's one thing to have ideas of how to improve a situation or place..it's another to insinuate that everything outside of one's own comfort zone is bad....

And it's another thing to automatically leap to the conclusion that people can't have a rational conversation here.

[Frankie811]

Providence Night Life

Ari Heckman, a development associate at Providence-based Cornish Associates, said his company believes a balance can be struck.

Cornish has developed mixed-use projects in Providence and elsewhere. Over the years, the company has received complaints about clubs downtown, particularly Diesel and places that

[Frankie811]

I imagine the rejuvinated Downcity is making these properties more attractive economically. You can either pour money into them to upgrade them and try to attract more people. Or sell now, let someone else worry about the upgrades, and take the money to Florida.

It's funny that you should say that, because Mr Kent does live in Fl. Maybe in North Kingston also, if he didn't sell his house. And he does have clubs in FL also, and has had trouble there as well.

[AriPVD]

I stand by those comments.

[Carter711]

Anyone hear about the drinking age suit in Newport. A family went to a bar, that has dining, but is 21+. Their 18 year old son was forced to leave. The family is suing, claiming that there is nothing in state law that allows an establishment to restrict service to people under 21. Should be interesting.

Last week I was at a liquor store in Mass. and they refused to sell to me because I had an out-of-state ID. They said they only sell to people who are 25+ w/ out-of-state ID's (I'm 23). I was furious! The drinking age in Massachusetts is 21, not 25 !!

[KRC]

I hope this thread isn't going to get hijacked with another elitist viewpoint from radical transplants. Variety is the spice of life. That's what makes a city unique and interesting and one of the main reasons that Pvd is still on the upswing......

Thank you for finally sharing your real agenda here, Jerry. It's funny how you can get a completely different view from the same comment. Regardless of what you think your point was, I see it as jealousy from an individual who has lived here his entire life and contributed nothing. My favorite post from you over the past year was that you were sitting at the table ready to sign on the dotted line to buy a piece of property and you didn't at the last minute because of taxes. I don't buy that for one second. Never did. Exactly, what table were you sittinig at? But that doesn't stop you from spewing your venum at people like me who have actually invested in and are contributing to a very large part of the city's reawakening. Pointing out that there are indeed establishments downtown that are serving to minors and are contributing a dangerous situation in parts of the city at certain times is not elistist.

You also pointed out that you were out of here in a year's time. May I ask what concrete steps you have taken since that post to make that move a reality? Why should I take anything you say seriously when you've made it quite clear that you're ready to jump ship at any time? Yet, I do. I actually value your opinions exactly because of where you stand and your background. I'm getting a bit tired of pulling you off the ledge and smacking me in the face just because of who I am and what I've done.

[KRC]

Like...for example...what is the whole issue with the people in the Fountain St. building threatening a lawsuit against Murphy's for wanting to put something in that empty space? Nobody answered that question. Whatever your opinion is....your entitled to your own...but I can't believe the audacity that some people have ( and quite a few people here have) to insinuate that something does not belong in their perfect utopia vision of the city. Why don't we ship all the blacks, hispanics, and trashy Kennedy Plaza people to Block Island while we're at it? I mean come on...It's one thing to have ideas of how to improve a situation or place..it's another to insinuate that everything outside of one's own comfort zone is bad....

Like, how about they are known to have a problem with serving minors and have for years? It's not the eating portion of the establishment they are worried about. It's the late night drinking part. I've been on Union when there were brawls at 2:00am from their patrons. Worring about that being established in a piece of property you have a vested interest in is perfectly fine.

[runawayjim]

Last week I was at a liquor store in Mass. and they refused to sell to me because I had an out-of-state ID. They said they only sell to people who are 25+ w/ out-of-state ID's (I'm 23). I was furious! The drinking age in Massachusetts is 21, not 25 !!

that's fairly common in the boston area (think waltham/newton). you can't buy in liquor stores or go to some bars. it sucks.

Thank you for finally sharing your real agenda here, Jerry. It's funny how you can get a completely different view from the same comment. Regardless of what you think your point was, I see it as jealousy from an individual who has lived here his entire life and contributed nothing. My favorite post from you over the past year was that you were sitting at the table ready to sign on the dotted line to buy a piece of property and you didn't at the last minute because of taxes. I don't buy that for one second. Never did. Exactly, what table were you sittinig at? But that doesn't stop you from spewing your venum at people like me who have actually invested in and are contributing to a very large part of the city's reawakening. Pointing out that there are indeed establishments downtown that are serving to minors and are contributing a dangerous situation in parts of the city at certain times is not elistist.

i won't be buying property within the city limits because of taxes. in fact, i won't even consider buying within providence city limits for that reason.

[KRC]

i won't be buying property within the city limits because of taxes. in fact, i won't even consider buying within providence city limits for that reason.

That's fine. It also means you won't be buying anywhere in Metro Providence since Providence does not have a high tax burden when compared to all of its suburbs. Look it up. Providence's tax rate for owner occupied is toward the bottom of the list, not top. I'd agree with you that RI property owners are burdened more as a whole due to our tax structure. But the facts don't bear out that Providence is even worse than the others. It's not. It actually one of the better ones.

[jencoleslaw]

Tax Rates 2005-2006

[KRC]

Tax Rates 2005-2006

I was looking for this list and just getting ready to post it. Thank you!

Don't forget that in Providence you're only taxes at 50%. So $30.23 is actually $15.13. Then subtract your homestead exemption. My total tax bill is less in Providence than it is in East Providence and my Providence place is worth more. And that statement includes my homestead examption I had in East Providence, which I lost now that I live downtown.

[Jerry2]

I see it as jealousy from an individual who has lived here his entire life and contributed nothing. My favorite post from you over the past year was that you were sitting at the table ready to sign on the dotted line to buy a piece of property and you didn't at the last minute because of taxes.

You also pointed out that you were out of here in a year's time. May I ask what concrete steps you have taken since that post to make that move a reality? Why should I take anything you say seriously when you've made it quite clear that you're ready to jump ship at any time?

I don't know why you thought that I was attacking you personally. Secondly, you definitely have me confused with someone else about not signing at a closing table. I was thinking about purchasing a few months back and holding off because the prices are dropping everywhere astronomically. The Providence market is oversaturated and overpriced and the prices increases are leveling off...and even dropping in many places. (I work in this business.)Yes, I did say that I wanted to "get outta here" at one point because my personal life took that turn and anxiety, stress, and anticipation showed in some posts that were inappropriate for UP. Anyways since then...I've been promoted with a significant salary raise and my feet are firmly planted here for now. However, I would like to move to Pawtucket or EP because I think both have the urban experience that I'm seeking without the riff-raff of Pvd.

I apologize if you took offense to my previous post. I'm not going to change my opinion nor did I ever insinuate that there can't be a civil discussion about this. I, personally, think it's been re-hashed in one form or another in the Pvd. Music Scene thread, the Gentrification thread, Club Diesel thread, etc. I don't despise any "transplant" to the city. They've contributed to the economy and enabled Pvd to grow and continue to grow. I've never posted any wild comments like magoldbe @ keeping Pvd dirty and trashy.There is no radical element. I've said that there is a good amount of people that moved here because they thought that the city was interesting & unique and are now conjuring up crazy ideas of what should stay and what should go because they've "invested" in the area....some even working behind-the-scenes or with special interest groups. To say that you've contributed something just because you bought a unit downtown comes off a little elitist to me KRC.....and to make a personal jab or assume that I've contributed nothing ....What does that mean? Is that because I rent? Hmmm...

[KRC]

I don't know why you thought that I was attacking you personally. Secondly, you definitely have me confused with someone else about not signing at a closing table. I was thinking about purchasing a few months back and holding off because the prices are dropping everywhere astronomically. The Providence market is oversaturated and overpriced and the prices increases are leveling off...and even dropping in many places. (I work in this business.)Yes, I did say that I wanted to "get outta here" at one point because my personal life took that turn and anxiety, stress, and anticipation showed in some posts that were inappropriate for UP. Anyways since then...I've been promoted with a significant salary raise and my feet are firmly planted here for now. However, I would like to move to Pawtucket or EP because I think both have the urban experience that I'm seeking without the riff-raff of Pvd.

I apologize if you took offense to my previous post. I'm not going to change my opinion nor did I ever insinuate that there can't be a civil discussion about this. I, personally, think it's been re-hashed in one form or another in the Pvd. Music Scene thread, the Gentrification thread, Club Diesel thread, etc. I don't despise any "transplant" to the city. They've contributed to the economy and enabled Pvd to grow and continue to grow. I've never posted any wild comments like magoldbe @ keeping Pvd dirty and trashy.There is no radical element. I've said that there is a good amount of people that moved here because they thought that the city was interesting & unique and are now conjuring up crazy ideas of what should stay and what should go because they've "invested" in the area....some even working behind-the-scenes or with special interest groups. To say that you've contributed something just because you bought a unit downtown comes off a little elitist to me KRC.....and to make a personal jab or assume that I've contributed nothing ....What does that mean? Is that because I rent? Hmmm...

Thank you, Jerry. I know you really don't mean a lot of the things you say. When you make comments like elitest transplants, exactly what am I supposed to think? I fit the exact description you give. I really do view many of your off-hand comments as mis-worded concern about this city and I really do think your view is quite valid. I'm not elitest. Yes, my boyfriend and I have a few bucks. We didn't always. 10 years ago I could afford to buy a stick of gum. We worked our butts off starting our own business and building our retirement portfolio and I did it in Providence. I love it here lumps, bumps and all.

[Jenkins]

I was looking for this list and just getting ready to post it. Thank you!

Don't forget that in Providence you're only taxes at 50%. So $30.23 is actually $15.13. Then subtract your homestead exemption. My total tax bill is less in Providence than it is in East Providence and my Providence place is worth more. And that statement includes my homestead examption I had in East Providence, which I lost now that I live downtown.

Good point about the actual property tax burden. However, I just got my excise tax bill and lord above is that tax insane in Providence For the honor of owning a 3 year old Camry I have to pay the city almost $800 this year! Keep that in mind and factor it into your total property taxes when thinking of moving to Providence. The rate is about $76 per $1000 in car value, minus a $5000 deduction. It varies from town to town in Rhody, but Providence is by far the highest. And to think that $800 I get to pay every year (although it will decline as the car value does) is on top of the 7% sales tax I paid when I bought it. I realize the legislature claims to be phasing it out, but don't hold your breath, they first said that back in '99.

[KRC]

Good point about the actual property tax burden. However, I just got my excise tax bill and lord above is that tax insane in Providence For the honor of owning a 3 year old Camry I have to pay the city almost $800 this year! Keep that in mind and factor it into your total property taxes when thinking of moving to Providence. The rate is about $76 per $1000 in car value, minus a $5000 deduction. It varies from town to town in Rhody, but Providence is by far the highest. And to think that $800 I get to pay every year (although it will decline as the car value does) is on top of the 7% sales tax I paid when I bought it. I realize the legislature claims to be phasing it out, but don't hold your breath, they first said that back in '99.

Oh yeah! Don't even get me started on that. Way too high. I just chalk it up to the price I have to pay for living here. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

[Jenkins]

Oh yeah! Don't even get me started on that. Way too high. I just chalk it up to the price I have to pay for living here. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

Another way I look at it is the money I am saving in mortgage payments each month by buying a house here instead of, say North Providence or Attleboro, more than makes up for the high taxes. I don't live on the East Side, obviously

[Frankie811]

Club Diesel transfer license

http://www.projo.com/music/content/projo_2...15.329a20d.html

[Cotuit]

So where does this leave Michael Kent?

And PS, I think it says something about our club scene that people from Boston want to invest in it. Are there any other clubs in the city owned by anyone outside the city?