Greensboro Getting Ready for DT Highrise Development?

[otherstream]

id love to see some of those parking lots turn into highrise condos. I think Center Pointe will pave the way for a highrise condo boom in DT Greensboro. Once a developer does something for the first then another developer will follow, then another and another and so on.

[cityboi]

I think the residential will attract more office development. like you said, people want to live nearby where they work and companies are now seeing that. I think what we will actually see more of in DT Greensboro are mixed-use towers that combine residential and office. That seems to be gaining popularity in Greensboro. Look at Triad Tower for example. It will not be downtown but its an office/residential tower. There seems to be a pattern developing in Greensboro when it comes to high density developments and its mixed use. That will make it practical to build highrises again in the central business district.

But Id rather see a mixed use tower because its hard to fill up 20 story office towers in Greensboro. Thats where the residential and retail come in.

[DigitalSky]

If we try to build some sort of "hip, urban village" from scratch all at once, all we're going to get is a big strip mall with a smaller, denser footprint, which will have decayed into something terribly unpleasant within a few years.

If we move slowly, however, we might get increased density in an organic pattern, where everything doesn't look like it was built either last week or last century (nothing in between), and where our urban exitement isn't based on what new upscale chain stores we've managed to attract. And downtowns might actually reflect the fact that history and architecture didn't merely pause in 1925 and then start up again in 2005. You can't build texture from the ground up, especially if you're bulldozing everything that's not of a currently-fashionable architectural vinatge in order to do so.

[krazeeboi]

Otherstream, great points. I'd hate to see Greensboro turn into a "boutique city" instead of a fully functional city that strives to meet the needs of all of its citizens, and not just one specific demographic.

[cityboi]

The News and Record recently reported that small retail shops downtown are struggling But DGI said thats to be expected in this stage of downtowns growth. DGI said the key is critical mass meaning more residential. Anyway I think we will see a few surprise highrise proposals within the next two years or so.

[krazeeboi]

In the meantime, I think it would be good for the downtown merchants to collectively launch a campaign centered around downtown retail, perhaps even in conjunction with the chamber of commerce.

[cityboi]

In the meantime, I think it would be good for the downtown merchants to collectively launch a campaign centered around downtown retail, perhaps even in conjunction with the chamber of commerce.

[krazeeboi]

Precisely. What are the big annual events in downtown Greensboro?

[crowe1856]

Well said, otherstream. I

[cityboi]

Precisely. What are the big annual events in downtown Greensboro?

[luvdowntowngso]

As someone who keeps my "ear to the ground" on everything that's going on in downtown Greensboro, I'm getting mixed signals on businesses coming to DT. I have heard from several reliable sources, that there have been a number of medium to larger businesses that have looked at locating DT. However, they complain that there is not enough Class A space to meet their needs.

As has been widely reported, there is space in our current high rise towers. However, they are smaller blocks of space...a floor or two here and there. While I believe that we should work to fill this space. I wonder if the lack of available space (larger blocks) is hurting us?

So, what do we do? Should a develper build a spec. high rise? (I know this sounds strange!) Or should we wait for a larger business to build their own building? I would asuume the more logical route, and the one that is used in most all cases is for a developer to secure a list of tenants before breaking ground!

I just do not want Greensboro to miss any opportunities. As I stated in an earlier post, we have got to get

more white collar jobs downtown! A mix of residential and office is the only way the DT will develop. You can't expect to have one without the other.

[cityboi]

As someone who keeps my "ear to the ground" on everything that's going on in downtown Greensboro, I'm getting mixed signals on businesses coming to DT. I have heard from several reliable sources, that there have been a number of medium to larger businesses that have looked at locating DT. However, they complain that there is not enough Class A space to meet their needs.

As has been widely reported, there is space in our current high rise towers. However, they are smaller blocks of space...a floor or two here and there. While I believe that we should work to fill this space. I wonder if the lack of available space (larger blocks) is hurting us?

So, what do we do? Should a develper build a spec. high rise? (I know this sounds strange!) Or should we wait for a larger business to build their own building? I would asuume the more logical route, and the one that is used in most all cases is for a developer to secure a list of tenants before breaking ground!

I just do not want Greensboro to miss any opportunities. As I stated in an earlier post, we have got to get

more white collar jobs downtown! A mix of residential and office is the only way the DT will develop. You can't expect to have one without the other.

[intcvlcphlga]

I could be wrong, but I remember hearing at one time the soil conditions in downtown Greensboro are inhospitable to really tall buildings. I imagine it's a case similar to the conditions in Manhattan. Downtown and Midtown (as well as much of Uptown) have bedrock (Manhattan Schist, to be exact) very close to the surface, making it very easy to construct very tall buildings. Meanwhile, in the Chelsea, Village and SoHo areas the bedrock is much deeper making it much more expensive to build taller buildings given the added foundation expenses. Does anyone know if that is the case in Greensboro as well?

[cityboi]

I could be wrong, but I remember hearing at one time the soil conditions in downtown Greensboro are inhospitable to really tall buildings. I imagine it's a case similar to the conditions in Manhattan. Downtown and Midtown (as well as much of Uptown) have bedrock (Manhattan Schist, to be exact) very close to the surface, making it very easy to construct very tall buildings. Meanwhile, in the Chelsea, Village and SoHo areas the bedrock is much deeper making it much more expensive to build taller buildings given the added foundation expenses. Does anyone know if that is the case in Greensboro as well?

[otherstream]

You can’t instantly create a self-sustaining urban setting, and you can’t force a city to be something it’s not. The result will seem artificial, and its long term success will be a delicate matter. A healthy downtown should grow naturally. Need is a much more effective catalyst than hype. Why do offices build in the suburbs? I’d say cheap land might have something to do with it- which is exactly what we’re creating less of with each shiny new granite-countered custom kitchen condo that gets built downtown. Don’t get me wrong, I think the downtown residential boom is fantastic, but there NEEDS to be a balance. You look at a lot of established downtowns, and you’ll see the buildings of old offices & business that have been converted into condos & apartments- but rarely do you see condos that have turned into businesses.

[krazeeboi]

If you visit any real urban area (other than Manhattan, which will always be a special case), the lively and exciting pedestrian-oriented areas are most decidedly NOT the ones with giant high-rises and the like. They tend instead to be smaller-scale areas of smaller three- to five- story apartment buildings and even some houses, all of them (gasp) built by different developers at different times, all with different sizes and types and price ranges of housing, and lots of small-scale retail and restaurants interspersed. Some of the retailers even manage to thrive in in unsightly one-story buildings which don't have apartments on top of them,a nd which don't even "match" the rest of the street.

[cityboi]

I think highrises would still help street level activity if the towers had street level retail, restaurants and entertainment on the ground floor. unfortunatly today, most towers arent like that.

[triadguy37]

The News and Record recently reported that small retail shops downtown are struggling But DGI said thats to be expected in this stage of downtowns growth. DGI said the key is critical mass meaning more residential. Anyway I think we will see a few surprise highrise proposals within the next two years or so.

[alanbagby]

The pictures look okay that were taken with the glass being slowly put into place. What will the top be designed like? i have seen the last picture posted and the top is basically flat. another rendering/drawing that i saw had the top of the building with a aero-dynamic styled frame that i thought was so very cool. this also added more height to the building and gave it a very ultra modern look. because it is greensboro which appears to be so far behind raleigh and winston-salem, the top will probably be flat and boring. This is a good gesture to renovate this building, but in actuality, it is not a new structure. It is an existing structure that is not adding more buildings to downtown which is what is needed in the worst way. More new buildings please to fill up the vacant spaces!!!!!!!

What is the word on the proposed 30+ tower that may be built next door? My guess is that because it is once again greensboro....lagging so very, very far behind, this probably won't ever happen. I wish I could be more positive about it, but i am a former resident who dearly loves greensboro and have always wanted the very best of tall highrises for downtown, but in actuality, I must be honest and say, I will believe it when i see it.

I lived in G'boro during the late 80's when the 3 skyscrapers (yeah right, what a joke for supposedly tall skyscrapers for a city/metro area this size) were built and felt all of them should have been at least 5 stories taller than they are. With the population and metro population that G'boro has, tall skyscraper buildings can be filled if built. Some say no, but i say they can! certainly if W-Salem and Raleigh can build skyscrapers and fill them, G'so can too.

All 3 skyscrapers built in the late 80's appear to be the same height from some angles, then at other angles, the former JP building is the tallest, and at other angles, it appears the Renaissance building is the tallest. G'so needs at least one 40 story building that would stand out and define downtown.

MOD EDIT:

Welcome to UrbanPlanet, but feel free to voice your opinion(s) in the Triad Off Topic forum. Try to remain on topic when posting in a thread.

[ezcheese]

Greensboro is growing only as fast as it needs to grow. There is no point in building a bunch of high-rises downtown when it is not economically feasible. If you truly want a big city feel, move to a big city.

Although Center Pointe is not a new structure, the building had been vacant for over a decade, so in essence, this is like a new building. It will be providing residences to many people, whereas before it was a vacant eyesore. As far as filling in vacant lots within downtown, I totally agree. But again that will only come when the numbers work.

One of the reasons I like Greensboro so much is that it is not pretending to be a city it's not. It's a very manageable town to get around in and it still offers many creature comforts without aspiring to be Charlotte or Raleigh.

If you really want the big-city-lots-of-scyscrapers feel, no city in North Carolina will provide you with that, but Charlotte will eventually reach that status. Greensboro has grown at a moderate and very manageable pace, which is desirable for sustainability.

[krazeeboi]

Firstly, let it be said that skyscrapers are hardly a sign of growth and prestige. If you don't believe it, look at Myrtle Beach with its skyline and then consider that the economy isn't diversified at all. Then consider a place like Charleston or Huntsville, AL, that's experiencing high job and income growth, but they don't have much of a skyline. It's erroneous to say that just because City X has skyscrapers that Greensboro can build them as well. Winston-Salem and Raleigh have a different local economic makeup than Greensboro.

Secondly, you should realize that Center Pointe is going to take office space off the market due to its conversion, which will decrease the downtown office vacancy rate and thus make it more likely that something of some significant height is built in the future, if the demand is there (which is what's important--skyscrapers aren't built just to be built).

If you're ashamed of Greensboro due to superficial things like skyscrapers and population size, then you need to open your eyes as to what's really going on in the city, because I assure you--those things hardly tell you anything.

[cityboi]

As much as I would like to see alot of towers get built downtown, I have to agree that the numbers have to work. Developers dont build skyscrapers for the sake of building skyscrapers. There are alot of other factors that drive that. I think skyscrapers are more symbolic than anything because they represent and urban city. But Id rather have Greensboro's urban nightlife over a skyscraper any day of the week. But don't be to disappointed, should a certain downtown mystery mega-project that involves a high-rise hotel and convention center materialize, we could see a couple towers. As for Center Pointe, there are rumors of a 30-story tower being built next to it at some point in the future but right now that is not a proposal. There is evidene that at some point in time, it could happen because the north side of Center Pointe will have no balconies or windows. Roy Caroll purposely did that for what he may eventually do on that lot to the north. BTW welcome to the forum alanbagbym

[alanbagby]

hey ezcheese, thanks for your reply and I am going to remain optimistic.....you say greensboro is growing as fast as it needs to grow???? by whose standards are you making this statement? many on these threads feel that it is not along with myself. yes, i do live in a big city, sorry you thought otherwise.

you say it has grown at a moderate rate which is desirable. again, by whose standards? please read threads related to greensboro and you will see some replies that think otherwise, along with myself. greensboro can fill buildings if built and just think of how new buildings could attract people and other businesses to downtown. as i look around downtown, there is so much vacant land. so what's to occur on these parcels if not buildings? parking lots or parking decks???

i remember while living there and when the new buildings were built in the late 80"s, there were some very conservatives who were against this and wanted greensboro to stay small town per say. they liked the feeling of not much happening and not much traffic downtown. this was all in the newspaper back then. this was also around the same time the proposed 30 story skyscraper was to be built as the southern life center. it too was to have reflective glass and the plans and drawings were so awesome. it did not materialize.

i still remain bullish on greensboro and love it dearly. i am just ready to see it grow upward. it appears to be cheaper to go upward than to take up alot of land and build outward.

i hope that the proposed 30+ tower DOES get built along with the possibility of a highrise hotel if the florida firm decides on G'boro, triad tower, and the proposed federal courthouse. these would be very much welcomed additions to the city and whole triad area.

i still say, raleigh and w-s has really taken the lead. come on g'boro lets do our thing now. it is time!

[cityboi]

currently there isnt alot of office growth in the Triad, but when it happens, I think downtown leaders need to learn how to compete with the suburbs. I think there should be financial incentives to attract office development downtown the same way we use incentives to attract HondaJet and Dell to the area. A few cities do that for thier downtowns. Its just so much cheaper to build a sprawling lowrise building in the suburbs as oppose to a 20-story office tower and there has to be some kind of incentives to compete with the cheaper locations.