CONSTRUCTION THREAD: Magnolia Park Town Center

[gs3]

^ I'm a realist and I've lived in large cities with true high end stores. I know what high end is. I don't think anyone is expecting Hermes, Gucci or Valentino. Being the same realist, I know that a developer simply doesn't waste 52 million on property to sling up a McDonalds or CVS or Wal-Mart (at least not around Greenville, where cheap land is abundant). I think this development will be high end for Greenville (which in Dallas may be considered only upper end).

For the record, Rooms to Go and Costco are not part of Menin's development. These parcels were sold off separately and not affiliated with the Menin project.

[RestedTraveler]

I'm ready to have my expectations exceeded, myself. Menin's Downtown at the Gardens project was developed on oddly a very similar piece of property as the Greenville Mall site, only bordered by A1A and a lake instead of Woodruff and I-385:

I look for something similar to this at Magnolia Park, with similar tenants.

[Brandon]

forgive me if Ive overlooked the answer to this already...but are they NOT demolishing the old Montgomery Ward? It looks like they're shying away from that building.

[Mr. Downtown]

forgive me if Ive overlooked the answer to this already...but are they NOT demolishing the old Montgomery Ward? It looks like they're shying away from that building.

I don't know about Montgomery Ward, but I do know that Sports Authority is still open, and will be "open during mall construction" according to their sign. I don't really understand how this works - are they tearing down everything around it and leaving it up?

Butch Kirven is my new hero. I know that he didn't make the decision, but you've got to give someone credit. Moving county offices to that site would have made less than no sense.

[gs3]

forgive me if Ive overlooked the answer to this already...but are they NOT demolishing the old Montgomery Ward? It looks like they're shying away from that building.

Not sure, but I believe Sports Authority has to move out of it's current space and in to it's new space (on the big box end near Costco) before the old Montgomery Ward building will be torn down. I think the MW building and the small part of the old mall that's left are too close to Sports Authority to tear down safely and without harm to their business traffic. That's what someone told me, don't know for sure. Makes sense.

[Brandon]

ahhh...yeah that makes sense. Its a shame they couldnt have worked MW and the anchor where Palmetto Home was into the new plan somehow--both of those buildings seemed very nice.

[distortedlogic]

I'm ready to have my expectations exceeded, myself. Menin's Downtown at the Gardens project was developed on oddly a very similar piece of property as the Greenville Mall site, only bordered by A1A and a lake instead of Woodruff and I-385:

I look for something similar to this at Magnolia Park, with similar tenants.

Looks like waaay to much asphalt to me. Maybe they will use a garage instead.

[vicupstate]

Looks like waaay to much asphalt to me. Maybe they will use a garage instead.

My thoughts exactly. This is just glorified sprawl.

[greenvilleguy]

What is the deal with you people and sprawl? Sprawl happens when development happens. All these businesses on Woodruff Road are only there because of the amount of housing that is going down Woodruff Road. Not simply because it is close to 85. When developers announce these nice new developments outside the city like Acadia and the new Cliffs developments you all cheer. But when businesses follow them you scream sprawl. Do you honestly think these businesses locate in certain areas just to make traffic a nightmare? NO, they are simply following the population. If there is no population, they don't make money. And if all these businesses located downtown as some of you would like then you would say how downtown has become too much like Woodruff Road...YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!! Be happy that our city is growing and that those on the outside are taking notice!!!!

[gs3]

Be happy that our city is growing and that those on the outside are taking notice!!!!

What a great statement!

[GvilleSC]

What a great statement!

I like that statement as well. Well said.

[mallguy]

What is the deal with you people and sprawl? Sprawl happens when development happens. All these businesses on Woodruff Road are only there because of the amount of housing that is going down Woodruff Road. Not simply because it is close to 85. When developers announce these nice new developments outside the city like Acadia and the new Cliffs developments you all cheer. But when businesses follow them you scream sprawl. Do you honestly think these businesses locate in certain areas just to make traffic a nightmare? NO, they are simply following the population. If there is no population, they don't make money. And if all these businesses located downtown as some of you would like then you would say how downtown has become too much like Woodruff Road...YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!! Be happy that our city is growing and that those on the outside are taking notice!!!!

Development is good but development done right, without sprawl, is better. I don't think anyone is opposing development per se; people just want it to be done in a way that will create a lasting, sustainable urban environment that will be a jewel for years to come. For me, streets in a grid pattern with buildings at the street, with no vast parking lots but a pedestrian-friendly environment, would be wonderful.

Since when did ANYONE complain about too much development downtown? Its office space has increased by I think 20% in the past few years and its retail space has increased by a decent amount and who is complaining? The more the better!

Remember, Pleasantburg Drive was the 1960s version of Woodruff Road. (Read the news reports about "upscale" McAlister Square when it opened in 1968, I'd guess because it had an Ivey's.) Build cheap sprawl, use it for a few years, and then build newer cheap sprawl farther out. The cycle continues...

Edited March 23, 2007 by mallguy

[goodbye]

That is why I actually like the sound of this proposed development at The Point. It is modeled after Greenville's Main Street and appears to be a sustainable community with plenty of high-density residential units and a park. It is definitely the type of development we need more of, and considering it will be in the city limits, that will add to the growing tax base. I hope the new owners of the Greenville Mall/Magnolia Park Town Center site come up with a similar plan. I am all for greater density throughout this corridor, but only if it includes more residential. So far, the larger mixed-use developments appear to be moving this way.

[GvilleSC]

Magnolia Park definitely needs to get onboard with residential. I'd still like to see a highrise on the site.

[distortedlogic]

Agreed Skyliner and GvilleSC! The point development sounds excellent, dense, in city limits, and like proper urban development. For some reason, the description of the new MAg Park doesn't sound as promising to me, but I am not sure why. We will have to wait and see. Perhaps I am a little disapponted because there will not be residential or high rise development like GVilleSC was saying. It just seems like another Grenridge. But then again, we'll just have to wait and see.

[gs3]

The website below for Downtown at the Gardens. Don't think it's been posted yet. Menin does a quality development.

http://www.downtownatthegardens.com/

[Mussins]

The website below for Downtown at the Gardens. Don't think it's been posted yet. Menin does a quality development.

http://www.downtownatthegardens.com/

Honestly I've lived where there are some very high end as well as upper end malls. And I've only heard of a hand full of the shops that went in to the Downtown at the Gardens. I'm not sure what to think about this....I'm always open to trying new shops and resturants, but it would be nice to know more than a handful of the names at the same time......

[mallguy]

Honestly I've lived where there are some very high end as well as upper end malls. And I've only heard of a hand full of the shops that went in to the Downtown at the Gardens. I'm not sure what to think about this....I'm always open to trying new shops and resturants, but it would be nice to know more than a handful of the names at the same time......

I agree with you- that seems to be a non-chain store tenant list. Based on the restaurants- Rosa Mexicano, Strip House and Cheesecake Factory, all of which are very desirable (I didn't know that Strip House was outside of NY)- I'd guess that the center is like a Phillips Place in Charlotte, with locally-owned stores that are very nice.

[GvilleSC]

The midlands took notice of the sale: The State Doesn't say much, other than it was sold for $52 million and will be upscale bringing new retailers to Greenville.

[Greercat]

What is the deal with you people and sprawl? Sprawl happens when development happens. All these businesses on Woodruff Road are only there because of the amount of housing that is going down Woodruff Road. Not simply because it is close to 85. When developers announce these nice new developments outside the city like Acadia and the new Cliffs developments you all cheer. But when businesses follow them you scream sprawl. Do you honestly think these businesses locate in certain areas just to make traffic a nightmare? NO, they are simply following the population. If there is no population, they don't make money. And if all these businesses located downtown as some of you would like then you would say how downtown has become too much like Woodruff Road...YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!! Be happy that our city is growing and that those on the outside are taking notice!!!!

Thank you, Greenvilleguy! All the recent whining about "sprawl" makes me think the looney enviromentalists have invaded the board to try to gain support for their "no growth" positions.

I'd LOVE to see a larger, more dense DT, but one thing we need for that to happen is to develop a larger Metro area. These new developments are filling-in dead space within the metro area - creating a bigger feel. Bottom line we need both development DT and on the outskirts of the G'ville. Oh and yeah, we'll get some more traffic - sorry, but noone outside the the NE wants to catch the bus or subway to go to work. Get over it, it's the 21st century and the auto is here to stay!

[erm1981]

^^^Good points!!!

[Cap'n Prowler]

Thank you, Greenvilleguy! All the recent whining about "sprawl" makes me think the looney enviromentalists have invaded the board to try to gain support for their "no growth" positions.

I'd LOVE to see a larger, more dense DT, but one thing we need for that to happen is to develop a larger Metro area. These new developments are filling-in dead space within the metro area - creating a bigger feel. Bottom line we need both development DT and on the outskirts of the G'ville. Oh and yeah, we'll get some more traffic - sorry, but noone outside the the NE wants to catch the bus or subway to go to work. Get over it, it's the 21st century and the auto is here to stay!

Well forgive us "loonies" for not yet having grown old and boring and caught up in the way things are that we still look at some things the way they should be. Desire for progressive development is not a "no growth" position. Personally, I'd like to think that one day these massive parking lots will be a thing of the past. Perhaps I'm just whining, and according to your post, I am no one anyway...

[krazeeboi]

Oh and yeah, we'll get some more traffic - sorry, but noone outside the the NE wants to catch the bus or subway to go to work. Get over it, it's the 21st century and the auto is here to stay!

Wow.

[gs3]

Get over it, it's the 21st century and the auto is here to stay!

Well lets hope the automobile is here to stay, as a large part of the Greenville economy is built on automotive manufacturing and automotive research. However, lets also hope that future autos / personal transportation take a different form and become non-polluting, using renewable energy. It is possible to have the best of both.

[Greercat]

Well forgive us "loonies" for not yet having grown old and boring and caught up in the way things are that we still look at some things the way they should be. Desire for progressive development is not a "no growth" position. Personally, I'd like to think that one day these massive parking lots will be a thing of the past. Perhaps I'm just whining, and according to your post, I am no one anyway...

Well Cap'n and Kraz I guess you guys are taking the bus to work tomorrow. Have fun and hope the AC is working!

But seriously, Cap'n - I guess it is "just whining" that I'm talking about. We can all hope for the best developments that good planning can provide. I'm with you there - but it's all the whining about EVERY development that has been announced in recent weeks that is old and tiring.

Believe me, there are a lot of "no growthers" in G'ville (I'm glad you are not one of them). Between them, the real environmentalists, the guy next door who never dreamed that the 100 acres of vacant land next him would ever be developed, and all the old-timers who think a dozen cars at the traffic light constitutes TRAFFIC - all these forces combine to slow a lot of good development in G'ville.

The Greenville News has been giving this group a prominent forum for years. I'm just surprised at how often this is emulated on UP at the mention of any significant project.