CONSTRUCTION THREAD: Magnolia Park Town Center

[g-man430]

^^^How is the Aloft a rumor if it was on the site plan as a potential tenant? To me it seems like you think Greenville isn't good enough for these high-end retailers and restaurants and that this development will not be upscale because a Rooms To Go and Costco are next door. I guess somebody forgot that the highest grossing movie theater in the state is also next door too. This development WILL be upscale and high-end. That has already been confirmed by the many articles on this development. It will be much better than the Shops at Greenridge and the Village at Sandhill. You will see you're wrong when it gets built next year. It WILL include a Z Gallerie, Ruth's Chris, Cheesecake Factory, Anthropologie, etc. The debate is over about whether it will be high-end or not.

Edited April 21, 2007 by g-man430

[krazeeboi]

I see these town center developments being upper mid-tier at most; I don't think I've ever seen one that was truly upscale, and that includes Phillips Place in the SouthPark area of Charlotte.

[g-man430]

I see these town center developments being upper mid-tier at most; I don't think I've ever seen one that was truly upscale, and that includes Phillips Place in the SouthPark area of Charlotte.

I unfortunately can't argue with that. Even Downtown at the Gardens has some normal stores and restaurants, but this will still include things that are world's above your McDonald's and Walmart's.

Edited April 21, 2007 by g-man430

[mallguy]

Examples of what I (and my Manhattan friends) view as "high-end" are the Nordstrom/Neiman Marcus wings at SouthPark in Charlotte, 57th Street in Manhattan, Phipps Plaza in Atlanta, Tysons Galleria near Washington, Bal Harbour Shops in Florida and the like. If Magnolia Park is considered by people on this board to be upscale like those others are, I'll be sure to post my Manhattan friends' reaction. Anthropologie, Z Gallerie, Cheesecake Factory and stores like that do target upper-middle to upper-income consumers, but they aren't in the same league of luxury as Prada or other truly upscale stores, and they'll constitute only a fraction of the leasable space at Magnolia Park. Greenville is certainly good enough for them- it had a Parisian and a Harold's and other comparable stores when a lot of other cities didn't.

If all of these stores being discussed actually end up at Magnolia Park, I'd say that their section will be upper mid-tier, while the Costco, Rooms to Go, etc. will be more discount, making the center on average not "upscale".

McAlister Square used to have a Hart-Schaffner-Marx store in it, along with a Hale's, an Ivey's and a very nice women's clothing store (Lillie Rubin) that my mother would go to for special occasions. Those stores didn't make the center overall upscale, even though they targeted upper-middle to upper-end consumers.

Edited April 21, 2007 by mallguy

[whitehourseview]

^^^How is the Aloft a rumor if it was on the site plan as a potential tenant? To me it seems like you think Greenville isn't good enough for these high-end retailers and restaurants and that this development will not be upscale because a Rooms To Go and Costco are next door. I guess somebody forgot that the highest grossing movie theater in the state is also next door too. This development WILL be upscale and high-end. That has already been confirmed by the many articles on this development. It will be much better than the Shops at Greenridge and the Village at Sandhill. You will see you're wrong when it gets built next year. It WILL include a Z Gallerie, Ruth's Chris, Cheesecake Factory, Anthropologie, etc. The debate is over about whether it will be high-end or not.

That's an excellent point. The highest grossing multi-plex theater in South Carolina is right next door. Based on that alone there should be a Saks Fifth Avenue, Nordstrom and even a Ben & Jerry's if you want to slum it immediately next to the movie theater.

[g-man430]

That's an excellent point. The highest grossing multi-plex theater in South Carolina is right next door. Based on that alone there should be a Saks Fifth Avenue, Nordstrom and even a Ben & Jerry's if you want to slum it immediately next to the movie theater.

Whitehourseview just agreed with me. Either he is being sarcastic or I am dreaming and somebody needs to slap me, so I can wake up. The funny thing is there was a Ben and Jerry's on the old site plan attached to one of the front ends of the movie theater.

Edited April 21, 2007 by g-man430

[erm1981]

I think it is good to have a mix of different stores for the different income ranges of people. That way the rich can shop where they want and the middle class people can shop where they want. It needs to be done in such a way though where nothing will look cheap or fake. I think Magnolia park will do such a thing once built.

[krazeeboi]

I didn't realize that MPTC would only encompass 65 acres; for some reason I thought it would be larger than that. But with everything coming to the site, it sounds like it will be relatively dense for its location.

As far as the Village at Sandhill comparisons, it sounds like MPTC will be similar inasmuch as it will be mixed-use like the Village and unlike the Shops at Greenridge. However, I don't know what the retail component of Magnolia will be aside from the anchors, so I don't know how the comparisons go in that regard.

[mallguy]

I think it is good to have a mix of different stores for the different income ranges of people. That way the rich can shop where they want and the middle class people can shop where they want. It needs to be done in such a way though where nothing will look cheap or fake. I think Magnolia park will do such a thing once built.

I agree with you (hope having my opinion in line with yours won't be taken the wrong way!). Greenville has all sorts of income levels in it and Haywood Mall has shown that one way to succceed in Greenville is to be all things for all people; Greenville Mall's attempt to target mainly upper-income customers didn't work.

(And on a sidenote- not aimed at your post- if the movie theater at Magnolia Park is supposed to attract such phenomenal complementary retail, then why didn't it help Greenville Mall avoid death? Based on the articles I saw on Lexis, movie theaters tend mainly to help food courts and sit-down restaurants; apparel sales aren't affected much by them.)

[g-man430]

^^What you said is true, but this will have a Costco and a large Rooms To Go store too, so it will help draw more people in than before. You'll have a huge movie theater on one side and a Costco on the other. There aren't many other things that can draw more people than that into a village lifestyle center that is located right between the two.

Edited April 21, 2007 by g-man430

[mallguy]

^^What you said is true, but this will have a Costco and a large Rooms To Go store too, so it will help draw more people in than before. You'll have a huge movie theater on one side and a Costco on the other. There aren't many other things that can draw more people than that into a village lifestyle center that is located right between the two.

It'll definitely have more traffic than Greenville Mall; I've said before that I expect Magnolia Park to be a successful shopping center. I see Rooms to Go targeting price-sensitive customers, though; even the Rooms to Go website plays up its discount pricing:

From RoomstoGo.com, the company's own ad:

"Desde entonces, hemos crecido hasta llegar a ser la empresa de muebles n

Edited April 21, 2007 by mallguy

[g-man430]

It'll definitely have more traffic than Greenville Mall; I've said before that I expect Magnolia Park to be a successful shopping center. I see Rooms to Go targeting price-sensitive customers, though; even the Rooms to Go website plays up its discount pricing:

From RoomstoGo.com, the company's own ad:

"Desde entonces, hemos crecido hasta llegar a ser la empresa de muebles n

[mallguy]

I knew I was dreaming. It's in spanish.

Well, if you want to go around saying that a shopping center is "upscale", you should look at the stores' own words describing their products and figure out the income levels of the customers they are seeking. RTG is not upscale at all, like the Shoe Carnival already near Magnolia Park.

Edited April 21, 2007 by mallguy

[motonenterprises]

Well, if you want to go around saying that a shopping center is "upscale", you should look at the stores' own words describing their products and figure out the income levels of the customers they are seeking. RTG is not upscale at all, like the Shoe Carnival already near Magnolia Park.

I know I haven't posted in a while, but some of the recent post just caught my attention. I wish to respond to the "friends from Manhattan" post. Who cares what they think? They don't have to live here right, and we don't have to live in Manhattan. I love it here and wouldn't won't to do anything other than visit the madness in Manhattan. So what if it isn't upscale to them. So what if they think its small townish. Compared to Manhattan it should be. If it excites us so be it! They don't pay our bills or put food in our mouths. By the way, I see a lot of northern license plates down here in small town Greenville and they aren't just visiting anymore. Sorry if I offended, but I'm sick of people wondering what others think.

[g-man430]

^^I agree 100%. There is nothing wrong with getting excited over the restaurants and retail that could be coming here. Mallguy, you seem to be the only one not excited and i'm not sure why either. If a Bass Pro Shops were to be built in Greer or a REI was to come to Magnolia Park, I would be jumping up and down with joy. If some people have a problem with that, then they can shove it where the sun doesn't shine for all I care.

[goodbye]

G-man, you need to calm down and harness some of that loose energy for better uses. Mallguy has said that he is happy for this project, and I for one am not opposed to his viewpoint as a person who sees the potential for much better (upscale) stores in Greenville someday. Naturally most people here are going to think the next new development is the best thing ever, but the truth in a much broader sense is that the developments happening on Woodruff Road are typical of most growing southern cities these days. Yes, it is very exciting to see so much coming in, and yes, it is definitely wonderful to be moving up the retail ladder in more places around the city, but look at how much more can and likely will happen in Greenville before all is said and done. Most people will likely look at Magnolia Park Town Center and not get excited. As long as people shop and dine there, it will just become another fun place to go along with the others - definitely not the only center of activity along this stretch of Woodruff Road, let alone the rest of the city. Just respect what others have to say, even if you disagree, and think of better ways to help move this city ahead.

[g-man430]

Skyliner, when I said those people who don't like it when we get excited can shove it, I wasn't referring to Mallguy, but his friends that live in NYC. The post that motonenterprises quoted from mallguy is totally different than it was earlier. He was saying how his friends that live in Manhattan laugh at us for getting excited over potentially getting things like Z Gallerie and Anthropologie. There is nothing wrong with getting excited about this kind of stuff. It's better to be thrilled about a development instead of disappointed.

Edited April 21, 2007 by g-man430

[erm1981]

Manhattan is so congested you can hardly even get anywhere. I went there last year. Not my cup of tea. Most people dont drive up there and are not encouraged to drive into the city. It was an experience though. Its just another way of life. They have things they can laugh at us about and there are things we can laugh at them about. It all comes out in the wash.

[krazeeboi]

If I understand mallguy correctly (and he can correct me if I'm not), he's not saying to not be excited about additions to Greenville's diversifying retail and restaurant scenes; he's simply saying to not make them out to be more than what they are. Although we don't have the full list of all restaurants and stores coming to Magnolia, from what I've seen so far, I don't consider any of them to truly be high-end. I don't think you have to be from NYC to have that opinion. But I'm a simple guy; just give me a good soul food restaurant, a Belk, and a K&G, and I'm fine, so take all this with a grain of salt.

[mallguy]

Thanks, everyone- the above posts capture exactly what I'm saying; Magnolia Park will be a good, successful shopping center, in line with other developments these days and will meet the needs of many people. I'm sure it will be an attractive shopping center, with a range of stores to appeal to a variety of income brackets, which will do well for Greenville.

(My friends in Manhattan are from the South originally- by no means do they consider Greenville, based on the developments there, a small town.)

Edited April 21, 2007 by mallguy

[gs3]

Well here's my take (and I've posted this previously in this thread).

I've lived in Boston, DC, Pitt, Dallas and traveled to 30 plus countries. I've been in flagships from Prada to Vera Wang to Valentino to Armani to Ermenegildo Zegna to Hermes. I'd take the energy and attitude I've found in Greenville over any place.

Who cares what people in Manhattan think? If they laugh at Greenville, then they are certainly the short sighted, narrow minded ones. Most people in Manhattan moved there from small towns and are trying desperately to escape their own insecurities. When I lived in Boston I certainly would never laugh at a smaller Southern city......people are people and places are places. There is something to be learned and enjoyed everywhere from everyone. Travel is the great equalizer. You realize people and places, for all their surface differences, are really the same inside. You realize you want to meet "real" people, not skeletons with Louis Vuitton bags hanging from their shoulders.

I for one find the energy, excitement and attitude of Greenvillians to be a rare gem........if it could be bottled, it would be worth billions.

Why would someone who doesn't live in Greenville be so concerned with this project? Just let Greenvillians enjoy their developments.

Again, as stated before, this development will be solidly upper end, NOT high end.

[jarvismj]

Well here's my take (and I've posted this previously in this thread).

I've lived in Boston, DC, Pitt, Dallas and traveled to 30 plus countries. I've been in flagships from Prada to Vera Wang to Valentino to Armani to Ermenegildo Zegna to Hermes. I'd take the energy and attitude I've found in Greenville over any place.

Who cares what people in Manhattan think? If they laugh at Greenville, then they are certainly the short sighted, narrow minded ones. Most people in Manhattan moved there from small towns and are trying desperately to escape their own insecurities. When I lived in Boston I certainly would never laugh at a smaller Southern city......people are people and places are places. There is something to be learned and enjoyed everywhere from everyone. Travel is the great equalizer. You realize people and places, for all their surface differences, are really the same inside. You realize you want to meet "real" people, not skeletons with Louis Vuitton bags hanging from their shoulders.

I for one find the energy, excitement and attitude of Greenvillians to be a rare gem........if it could be bottled, it would be worth billions.

Why would someone who doesn't live in Greenville be so concerned with this project? Just let Greenvillians enjoy their developments.

Again, as stated before, this development will be solidly upper end, NOT high end.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you gsupstate. The only thing that I can add to this is that Greenville looks out for itself, we don't have to please the rest of the world; We don't have to be like everyone else. We are our own city, and I can't wait until I'm able to move back home.

[motonenterprises]

Mallguy, I hope my post wasn't too harsh. I just wanted to get my point across. We can't compare Greenville to Manhattan, most cities can't. It is still a jewel though that is a lot different than most cities. Even though we don't have the things that are in Manhattan, we have everything we need and more. And like I said, there are sure a lot of northerners moving here.

[mallguy]

Mallguy, I hope my post wasn't too harsh. I just wanted to get my point across. We can't compare Greenville to Manhattan, most cities can't. It is still a jewel though that is a lot different than most cities. Even though we don't have the things that are in Manhattan, we have everything we need and more. And like I said, there are sure a lot of northerners moving here.

You're fine and your point is certainly valid. Just to clarify, my Manhattan friends who were laughing at the perspectives about Magnolia Park are originally from Georgia, and others at the table with us, who were probably also laughing, are originally from Texas. They laughed at a point of view (which they thought reflected badly on Greenville), NOT at Greenville.

Other than some comments expressing distate for "red states" in general, I never heard anything negative about the South during my New York years; conversely, views of the Carolinas were usually quite positive.

Edited April 22, 2007 by mallguy

[motonenterprises]

Understood. I have family in a New Jersey suburb of NY, and they love coming here. My aunt hates going to NY and lives right by it. I guess its all just taste. I personally have no desire for that much hassle and congestion. I have enough stress right here in the south.