CONSTRUCTION THREAD: Magnolia Park Town Center

[Greenville]

More mistakes...

OK, here are the developer's own words, from menindevelopment.com:

(And it is Smith & Hawken, NOT plural, and ending in En, not In; smithandhawken.com).

http://www.menindevelopment.com/index.cfm?...6&x=5682038

The Costco mention has been deleted since my last post, referencing Menin's development, but it's for all to see. The old menindevelopment.com website, with the Costco, might be available at web.archive.org.

Other than misspelling Smith & Hawken, I don't see any mistakes gsupstate made.

[gs3]

More mistakes...

OK, here are the developer's own words, from menindevelopment.com:

(And it is Smith & Hawken, NOT plural, and ending in En, not In; smithandhawken.com).

http://www.menindevelopment.com/index.cfm?...6&x=5682038

The Costco mention has been deleted since my last post, referencing Menin's development, but it's for all to see. The old menindevelopment.com website, with the Costco, might be available at web.archive.org.

No mistakes.

Two developments in one. Costco is being developed separately as the land was sold, yet it is still within the overall boundaries of Magnolia Park. (This was previously stated in this thread when "someone" was worried that Costco didn't fit in with upscale). The sign is currently up at Magnolia Park for Costco and site prep is underway. So again, as I stated, there is a big box end and an upscale village end. Two developments in one.

I masppell alls thee tiimme. Sorrie. I shoultd haf said Z Galluriy, Chesscoke Factories, Apfel, RBI, Margiwanno's, Lucy Blend, Ampthrapolgigee, and Urpton Offsitters.

Edited April 12, 2007 by gsupstate

[greenvilleguy]

OMG!! WILL YOU PEOPLE GROW UP! I couldn't care less if you can't even spell your name, if it doesn't add to or benefit the discussion keep it to yourselves....NO ONE ELSE CARES...

[mallguy]

It's less gsupstate's misspelling that's a concern than simply stating the opposite of what the developer is stating. Nowhere on Menin's website (or in Lexis or other searches) is Magnolia Park presented as a 2-part development; conversely, Menin is promoting it as including the less-upscale stores such as Rooms to Go.

In my business I am constantly told that if I can't get things such as spelling right, nobody will pay attention to the bigger-picture arguments I'm trying to make. Same applies here.

PS: I'm going to start referring to Haywood Mall in the plural from now on- Haywood Malls. The Sears and a few other stores constitute their own mall and are a completely separate development as the rest of the mall, such as the Pottery Barn, which, together with the Banana Republic and a few other stores, constitutes a completely separate other mall. The fact that Simon promotes the mall, such as on the directory, as being one center is completely false. There are two developments.

Edited April 12, 2007 by mallguy

[gs3]

More mistakes...

The Costco mention has been deleted since my last post, referencing Menin's development, but it's for all to see. The old menindevelopment.com website, with the Costco, might be available at web.archive.org.

OMG!!!! Quick....somebody tell the construction workers to stop and to yank down that sign that just went up this week. The website doesn't mention Costco so IT MUST NOT be coming to the big box end of the development!

Additionally, a few facts here for anyone relying only on websites. The site plan on Menin's website was simply the Gulfside Canyon plan. They slapped it on their website. The final village area will probably change. The big box area will stay mostly the same.

I'm not sure what can't be understood about two separate areas within a development. We already have that. Greenridge is a prime example with Lowe's on one side and big box in the back, and then Harold's, Ann Taylor Loft, Talbots, Swoozies, Chicos, etc in the village.

Magnolia will make this separation even more pronounced with big box on one end (look at the plan) and a village unto itself.

Please spellcheck me guys, OK?

Edited April 12, 2007 by gsupstate

[mallguy]

Additionally, a few facts here for anyone relying only on websites. The site plan on Menin's website was simply the Gulfside Canyon plan. They slapped it on their website.

There's a lot more on Menin's website than just the site plan, and most of that information did not come straight from Gulfside. They are Menin's own words. web.archive.org can check a lot of old websites to compare.

I don't rely only on websites, but I check developers' websites carefully to see what they are saying about their developments. Lexis/Nexis, EDGAR and more, and direct conversations with developers and retailers' real estate departments provide very detailed data about developments.

Again, Magnolia Park is one development (not 2 developments in one, or 2 separate developments); there will be smaller and hopefully more upscale stores in part of it, but it's one development, just as McAlister Square was one mall with some better and some worse stores scattered throughout.

[btoy]

It's less gsupstate's misspelling that's a concern than simply stating the opposite of what the developer is stating. Nowhere on Menin's website (or in Lexis or other searches) is Magnolia Park presented as a 2-part development; conversely, Menin is promoting it as including the less-upscale stores such as Rooms to Go.

In my business I am constantly told that if I can't get things such as spelling right, nobody will pay attention to the bigger-picture arguments I'm trying to make. Same applies here.

PS: I'm going to start referring to Haywood Mall in the plural from now on- Haywood Malls. The Sears and a few other stores constitute their own mall and are a completely separate development as the rest of the mall, such as the Pottery Barn, which, together with the Banana Republic and a few other stores, constitutes a completely separate other mall. The fact that Simon promotes the mall, such as on the directory, as being one center is completely false. There are two developments.

How about this then. Menin does not nor have they ever owned the land that the Costco is being built on, what they paid 52 Million for did not include that site, it had already been sold of spereately to Cost for like 5 million dollars. Menin is not developeing the Costco!

[gs3]

How about this then. Menin does not nor have they ever owned the land that the Costco is being built on, what they paid 52 Million for did not include that site, it had already been sold of spereately to Cost for like 5 million dollars. Menin is not developeing the Costco!

This is exactly right. And as it all goes under the Magnolia Park name, that is "two developments" in one.

[mallguy]

It is one development, gsupstate, marketed as such, despite separate ownership structures for several parcels. Lots of commercial properties have multiple ownership structures, including malls and mixed-use complexes. This is a basic way of doing real estate.

Is the Westin Poinsett a two-in-one? Greenridge? The Woolworth building downtown? I live in a multi-family condominimum building, with the interior corridors owned by the building developer but each condominimum separately owned. Is it 40 different developments or 40-in-one? No. All of them are one development.

[gs3]

Again, Magnolia Park is one development (not 2 developments in one, or 2 separate developments); there will be smaller and hopefully more upscale stores in part of it, but it's one development, just as McAlister Square was one mall with some better and some worse stores scattered throughout.

Stores at Magnolia Park will not be "scattered".

There is a defined, focused "big box end" with Costco, Petco, Rooms to Go, etc. This area will be surrounded by pavement and is typical mid-market big box.

There will be clear delineation between the big box area and the village.....basically a straight line entrance road. The village area will have a defined, focused village of upscale shops and restaurants (that's upscale as in upper middle, not high end as in Gucci). The village area will be more urban with streets, trees, angled store-front parking, etc.

It is one development, gsupstate, marketed as such, despite separate ownership structures for several parcels. Lots of commercial properties have multiple ownership structures, including malls and mixed-use complexes. This is a basic way of doing real estate.

Is the Westin Poinsett a two-in-one? Greenridge? The Woolworth building downtown? I live in a multi-family condominimum building, with the interior corridors owned by the building developer but each condominimum separately owned. Is it 40 different developments or 40-in-one? No. All of them are one development.

Menin is not developing Costco. So maybe it's semantics. It's two developers if we want to split hairs.

Per your previous post, Costco was removed from Menin's website, so apparently it's not being marketed together. It's all under the name Magnolia Park, but Menin is not marketing Costco (see your previous e-mail link to Menin's website).

Edited April 12, 2007 by gsupstate

[mallguy]

It's two developers if we want to split hairs.

Per your previous post, Costco was removed from Menin's website, so apparently it's not being marketed together. It's all under the name Magnolia Park, but Menin is not marketing Costco (see your previous e-mail link to Menin's website).

At last...yes, it is multiple owners and developers, but one development, with one name and marketed as one.

That's a common thing in real estate.

For Magnolia Park in particular, Costco and the other big-box stores listed on Menin's website are strong traffic generators, so it would be surprising for a developer NOT to want to include them as part of the development. Otherwise the center would be unanchored, which would have adverse effects on the developer's financing.

Edited April 12, 2007 by mallguy

[gs3]

At last...yes, it is multiple owners and developers, but one development, with one name and marketed as one.

That's a common thing in real estate.

Not quite. Menin is NOT marketing Costco as part of their developement (you said this yourself from the website). The leasing group is marketing them. But again splitting hairs.

From a consumer point of view, in the end, they will see a big box end and an upscale village end (two developments in one, from a lifestyle perspective, without "scattered" stores). That's the key to any successful development.....the consumer.

Edited April 12, 2007 by gsupstate

[mallguy]

Not quite. Menin is NOT marketing Costco as part of their developement (you said this yourself from the website). The leasing group is marketing them. But again splitting hairs.

Again, please do your research before posting.

The Costco reference has been removed from the Menin website but you'll thus need to dig deeper to get more details. The Costco reference as part of the development is still in some articles available on Lexis, quoting Menin. The Costco reference is also still on the Magnolia Park website, which has contact info for Menin, not a non-Menin leasing group:

Costco and Regal Cinemas, the state's largest grossing theater, will anchor what is a growing collection of remarkable national, regional and local retailers blooming in Magnolia Park.

For more information on retail and dining, contact Darryl Kaplan, of Menin Development at 561-282-5000.

For more information on office, residential and hotel space, contact Marc Yavinsky , of Menin Development at 561-282-5000

Edited April 12, 2007 by mallguy

[gs3]

Again, please do your research before posting.

The Costco reference has been removed from the Menin website but you'll thus need to dig deeper to get more details. The Costco reference as part of the development is still in some articles available on Lexis, quoting Menin. The Costco reference is also still on the Magnolia Park website, which has contact info for Menin, not a non-Menin leasing group:

Costco and Regal Cinemas, the state's largest grossing theater, will anchor what is a growing collection of remarkable national, regional and local retailers blooming in Magnolia Park.

For more information on retail and dining, contact Darryl Kaplan, of Menin Development at 561-282-5000.

For more information on office, residential and hotel space, contact Marc Yavinsky , of Menin Development at 561-282-5000

Who's on first, no WHO is on second. We are posting in circles.

I don't have to search websites. I'm involved with this project. Period.

Just so you know, the websites are full of errors. You said Costco was gone. I was merely repeating to you what you posted.

[mallguy]

Who's on first, no WHO is on second. We are posting in circles.

I don't have to search websites. I'm involved with this project. Period.

Just so you know, the websites are full of errors. You said Costco was gone. I was merely repeating to you what you posted.

We're all involved with this project, whether as consumers, retail hobbyists or otherwise. Costco is gone from the Menin website.

If you work for Menin or another company that has a direct stake in this project, I'd imagine that your employer is thrilled that you are posting non-public information on a public message board.

[crescentmoon]

Will there be a pharmacy as part of the Magnolia Park project? I think some posters would certainly benefit from such a retail element.

[gs3]

If you work for Menin or another company that has a direct stake in this project, I'd imagine that your employer is thrilled that you are posting non-public information on a public message board.

Nothing "non public" has been posted here.

[gvillenative]

Should we change the name of this thread from "CONSTRUCTION THREAD: Magnolia Park Town Center" to "Fight Night"? I don't know if I speak for anyone else but quite frankly I'm tired of trying to read a topic, be it what it may, and having to weed through all of the childish bickering. You're both right you are just arguing symantics and it gets very old. I'm not in real estate or construction or anything having to do with developments I build engines. I want to come on here and read about whats going on in my city and THIS is what I have to deal with. Can we get on with the topic at hand? If its not too much to ask.

[gs3]

^ My apologies gvillenative. Thought there should accurate information on a development.

[greenvilleguy]

Should we change the name of this thread from "CONSTRUCTION THREAD: Magnolia Park Town Center" to "Fight Night"? I don't know if I speak for anyone else but quite frankly I'm tired of trying to read a topic, be it what it may, and having to weed through all of the childish bickering. You're both right you are just arguing symantics and it gets very old. I'm not in real estate or construction or anything having to do with developments I build engines. I want to come on here and read about whats going on in my city and THIS is what I have to deal with. Can we get on with the topic at hand? If its not too much to ask.

[Greenville]

We should know better than to rely on developers' websites for information. Otherwise, Pinnacle on Main would be occupied today and the Tower and Falls and Broad would be finished or close to being finished (check both websites to see).

Menin's website is, without a doubt, a carbon copy of the same exact site plan that Gulfside had. I'm sure Menin is working on an updated plan, but based on what we've been told they are not only trying to maintain the original upscale feel of the town center, but IMPROVE upon it. It's pretty certain that there will be retail and restaurant tenants at Magnolia Park that are not only firsts for Greenville, but for the entire state of SC as well.

Thanks to everyone for posting what they know and keeping the rest of us informed.

[mallguy]

We should know better than to rely on developers' websites for information. Otherwise, Pinnacle on Main would be occupied today and the Tower and Falls and Broad would be finished or close to being finished (check both websites to see).

That's a very good point. Surprising that some people don't update their online info; glad Lexis/Nexis, Edgar, etc. are current. Prospective retail tenants use those websites as well so a developer should update them if they're wrong.

The more things posted on this board are researched, the better; I find discussions of retail real estate very interesting and so the more accurate and well-researched everything is (and the less items such as "my cleaning lady heard from a guy at the gas station that Neiman Marcus is coming to the Woolworth building, so it's written in stone that it's coming" are posted as facts), the better and the more useful this board will be for all of us.

Edited April 13, 2007 by mallguy

[erm1981]

Im hearing some info around the job that Cherokee Masonry will be starting the costco very soon and that equipment has/will be comming in to get started on it. I heard they will be working a lot of hours to complete it. The website must be wrong about the costco not being there then.

[gs3]

Im hearing some info around the job that Cherokee Masonry will be starting the costco very soon and that equipment has/will be comming in to get started on it. I heard they will be working a lot of hours to complete it. The website must be wrong about the costco not being there then.

Scaffolding is already going up and walls are starting.

[RestedTraveler]

Scaffolding is already going up and walls are starting.

Yes! Saw this, too, on my way over to Brixx this evening! My daughter, of course, ignored it and noticed the huge pile of dirt adjacent to the old mall.