CONSTRUCTION THREAD: Magnolia Park Town Center

[Greenville]

That is absolutely correct, vicupstate. No office space will be included in Magnolia Park Town Center if the unnamed "major corporation" decides NOT to locate there.However, if the corporation doesn't locate there, I certainly do hope they choose downtown Greenville instead.

Hopefully all of the components will happen at Magnolia Park Town Center. That would make it a real mixed-use urban lifestyle center.

The residential "tower" surprises me, since the article mentioned possible residential units above the retail. I'll take a residential tower anyday though!

Greenville, the two residential towers on the Villagio Verde site are not highrises, but rather 7-story midrises.

Thanks for clarifying that, Skyliner. I was thinking they would be 8 stories or so, but should not have referred to them as "highrises." Regardless, they will make a nice impact on that stretch of I-385 in midtown.

[GSP Tiger]

And there will be no Bass Pro Shops here or at the Pelham Rd. site. Apparently rather than Bass Pro Shops paying rent you actually have to pay them to be part of your development. I guess becuase of the amount of users they will attract.

Bass Pro Shops is not the only retailer that looks for incentives to locate into your development. Most of your retailers (Wal-mart, Target, domestic chains, etc.) will want you to pay them money or offer a bonus to come in.

I heard the Pelham and Garlington roads site was being redrawn.

Bass Pro Shops is highly interested in locating somewhere along I-85 becasue of its being the primary route through the upstate. I would assume Powdersville is the next logical location.

As for them locationg in downtown, add an aquarium/terrarium, an IMAX theater and a hotel tower with them and get a great destination for the outdoor sportsmen and enthusiasts.

[btoy]

The footprint of the residential tower looks pretty small and appaears to be near where Palmetto Home and Garden is. It does not appear that there is any residential above on of the shops. It is still very early, this plan I could probubly still change a good bit depending on what tennants they attract and what other interest they get. My guess is the the tower would give them Interstate Visibility to not only 385 but to 85 as well.

As for the Pelham Rd. site, that will be a Super Target.

[RestedTraveler]

As for the Pelham Rd. site, that will be a Super Target.

With Archer Farms Market and Everything?!?!?! Now you've made my day!!!

Hey...this would be the first SuperTARGET in South Carolina, wouldn't it?

[mallguy]

In Manhattan this week, I told some of my colleagues, some of whom work in the shopping center industry, about a proposed "upscale" shopping center in Greenville, with a Costco, Rooms to Go and housing. They howled with laughter and said that neither they nor anyone they knew would want to live in a shopping center with those kinds of stores. They also said that a shopping center with those stores is inherently not upscale.

So pitiful that people in other cities look down their noses at developments that will really be wonderful for Greenville and will transform it into a world-class city.

Edited June 9, 2006 by mallguy

[btoy]

Ya, but for the most part those stores are seperated from the rest. No one will be living over the top of the Costco or Rooms to Go.

With the Costco its as if it was just next door to the center, it is not in the center. And the Rooms to go is on an outparcel, just like how Ruby Tuesday's will remain on an outparcel.

You need to remeber that this is Greenville and not New York, we are not going to have a Versace or Prada or Hermes to live over, at least not yet, though I would love to be proven wrong.

Now, look at all the apartment buildings around Woodruff and Haywood Rd. What is the defference from living in a complex behind a shopping center or next to a shopping center and living in apartments next to a Costco?

BTW, I have no clue whether the residential is apartments or Condos. That would make a big difference.

Edited June 9, 2006 by btoy

[mallguy]

Hopefully there will be condos rather than apartments.

Greenville isn't New York, but Charlotte has some mixed-use developments springing up around SouthPark Mall. They have upscale stores coming to them, with expensive condominiums above. No Costco or Rooms to Go there. My NY colleagues just think that Costco and Rooms to Go are usually cheaply-built big boxes that will lessen the upscale ambiance of the center.

I'd think that there should be a decent amount of demand for high-end housing near the new office space around Woodruff and I-85, so hopefully the developers will capture that market.

There is also a very nice mixed-use development in Raleigh called the Lassiter at North Hills. It has very nice architecture, with stores and office space and maybe housing. There is a Target there, submerged below a parking deck, and a JC Penney left over from the site's mall days, with beige brick updated with some Saks Fifth Avenue-type awnings and the like, along with some very nice jewelry stores, gift shops, a Starbucks. Hopefully Gulfside will make Magnolia Park like that.

[gs3]

Ya, but for the most part those stores are seperated from the rest. No one will be living over the top of the Costco or Rooms to Go.

Doesin that mean I caint put mines trailer upin on top of the shiney new Wal-Mart? Awwwww.....come on.....I wuz wantin to live up there on that roof with my twins, and Judd, and EC, and allin the cuzins, and mema and pepa.

[btoy]

If built office will be 8 floors. Residential call for 7-8 floors, but that could change based on the response that they get.

[g-man430]

This sounds great guys. Hopefully BPS will come somewhere like Verdae or near it. Do you know when construction of the Super Target could begin, btoy?

Edited June 9, 2006 by g-man430

[goodbye]

If built office will be 8 floors. Residential call for 7-8 floors, but that could change based on the response that they get.

That's what I figured for the office height. The garage being under it, I wonder if it will stand a bit taller than 8-stories, or if the garage will be sub-terranian?

Wow, the original release/article didn't mention any residential tower, so that would certainly be a really nice bonus. As I said earlier, I hope beyond all hope that every element is included in this project so that it will become a truly mixed-use urban lifestyle center.

[btoy]

This sounds great guys. Hopefully BPS will come somewhere like Verdae or near it. Do you know when construction of the Super Target could begin, btoy?

Not a clue.

[mallguy]

Do we know what the in-line tenants will be? I'd assume it would be things such as Fashion Bug (at Greenville Mall in the '70s and '80s) and Payless Shoes (also formerly in the mall), which would appeal to the same demographics targeted by Rooms to Go.

Edited June 9, 2006 by mallguy

[goodbye]

I doubt it. That would not be attractive to a major corporation or several potential residents looking to live in an "upscale" lifestyle center. Payless is more Berea than Verdae.

[gs3]

I doubt it. That would not be attractive to a major corporation or several potential residents looking to live in an "upscale" lifestyle center. Payless is more Berea than Verdae.

Here is one I posted earlier that I hear from a good source is coming,

http://www.rasushi.com/

I would think most tenants will be in line with the other tenants in the area around, maybe upscale, maybe moderate, but all having a draw....like everything that has just opened recently in the immediate area Whole Foods, PF Changs, Ann Tyalor Loft, Total Wines, BlueFire Grill, Drexel Heritage, Swoozies, Harolds, etc, etc. Excellent demographics through this 385/85/Woodruff interchange daily and in the area.

Edited June 9, 2006 by gsupstate

[goodbye]

Here is one I posted earlier that I hear from a good source is coming,

http://www.rasushi.com/

I would think most tenants will be in line with the other tenants in the area around, maybe upscale, maybe moderate, but all having a draw....like everything that has just opened recently in the immediate area Whole Foods, PF Changs, Ann Tyalor Loft, Total Wines, BlueFire Grill, Drexel Heritage, Swoozies, Harolds, etc, etc. Excellent demographics through this 385/85/Woodruff interchange daily and in the area.

Exactly! The article mentioned new stores to the area, as well as some additional locations for stores already in the market.

[mallguy]

I doubt it. That would not be attractive to a major corporation or several potential residents looking to live in an "upscale" lifestyle center. Payless is more Berea than Verdae.

I agree with you. I would not live in the same development as a Payless Shoes. But Rooms to Go is similarly a far cry from upscale stores such as Drexel Heritage (which used to be at Greenville Mall and has finally resurfaced- a welcome return!). At least it's not a Rooms to Go Outlet.

[Greenville]

Since Super Target will be part of the new development at Pelham and Garlington, will they be closing their Woodruff Road store?

[gs3]

I agree with you. I would not live in the same development as a Payless Shoes. But Rooms to Go is similarly a far cry from upscale stores such as Drexel Heritage (which used to be at Greenville Mall and has finally resurfaced- a welcome return!). At least it's not a Rooms to Go Outlet.

Edited June 9, 2006 by gsupstate

[Greenville]

mallguy, your New York friends probably thought we were a bunch of rednecks after you made it sound like we consider Rooms to Go and Costco to be "upscale." Come on now, who among us said that those are upscale tenants? If anything, we are confident that the development can be a nice one even if the tenants are mid-level in perceived quality. I think a lot of it depends on the architecture, layout, and final list of tenants chosen (not just the big boxes).

[mallguy]

mallguy, your New York friends probably thought we were a bunch of rednecks after you made it sound like we consider Rooms to Go and Costco to be "upscale." Come on now, who among us said that those are upscale tenants? If anything, we are confident that the development can be a nice one even if the tenants are mid-level in perceived quality. I think a lot of it depends on the architecture, layout, and final list of tenants chosen (not just the big boxes).

"Upscale" is how the center is described by the developers; it will also be a "landmark destination" that is "refined".

http://carolinanewswire.com/news/News.cgi?...ne&id=9618&op=t

And if I point out that the center has some aspects that are less than world class/upscale, etc., I get my head bitten off on this board (not by you- by others and one person in particular).

Most of my NY colleagues and I have lived in mixed-use developments for years. Class A office space? Starbucks? A nice restaurant? An art gallery? Those are fine to live next to as they help property values and attract upscale customers. But a Rooms to Go? Even if Costco and RTG aren't connected to the housing, they are still part of the overall development and contribute to its overall ambiance, just like the check cashing store that opened in the same block a friend of mine lives in on 96th Street in Manhattan.

So I just told my friends that the proposed shopping center is "quote, upscale, unquote, and has a Costco and a Rooms to Go and housing" and that it replaces a nice mall that had a Parisian.

They burst out laughing.

Edited June 9, 2006 by mallguy

[gs3]

"Upscale" is how the center is described by the developers; it will also be a "landmark destination" that is "refined".

http://carolinanewswire.com/news/News.cgi?...ne&id=9618&op=t

And if I point out that the center has some aspects that are less than world class/upscale, etc., I get my head bitten off on this board (not by you- by others and one person in particular).

So I just told my friends that the proposed shopping center is "quote, upscale, unquote, and has a Costco and a Rooms to Go and housing" and that it replaces a nice mall with a Parisian that went under.

They burst out laughing.

Costco and Rooms to Go are OUTPARCELS, much like Dicks Sporting Goods in Southpark, Charlotte with Neimans and Nordstrom or Bed, Bath and Beyond in Mall of Georgia (actually attached) with Nordstrom. So I hope your friends weren't laughing at the entire south. That would be pretty immature. My company is Manhattan based, and I'm there a couple of times a month. One of our little fashinata's (she's really cute), who just lives for Barney's, was the first one in Target a couple of years ago when they had the NYC temp store for the holidays. In this day and age, people do cross shop between "levels" of retail.

Since none of us know the final floor plan for the mall, no one knows. But logic tells "most" any clear thinking adult reading this, that with an office tower, parking decks, over 600,000 square feet of retail and a condo/apartment tower, this will most definitely be a prime development.

Edited June 9, 2006 by gsupstate

[Greenville]

Costco and Rooms to Go are OUTPARCELS, much like Dicks Sporting Goods in Southpark, Charlotte with Neimans and Nordstrom or Bed, Bath and Beyond in Mall of Georgia (actually attached) with Nordstrom. So I hope your friends weren't laughing at the entire south. That would be pretty immature. My company is Manhattan based, and I'm there a couple of times a month. One of our little fashinata's (she's really cute), who just lives for Barney's, was the first one in Target a couple of years ago when they had the NYC temp store for the holidays.

Since none of us know the final floor plan for the mall, no one knows. But logic tells "most" any clear thinking adult reading this, that with an office tower, parking decks, over 600,000 square feet of retail and a condo/apartment tower, this will most definitely be a prime development.

Very well said, gsupstate. What people need to keep in mind is that no developer would have invested this much on the front end (property costs PLUS demolition costs) to build a simple strip mall with low-end national retailers that can be found in Anytown, USA. If previous projects by this development group are any indication, this will be a first-rate development.

[mallguy]

Very well said, gsupstate. What people need to keep in mind is that no developer would have invested this much on the front end (property costs PLUS demolition costs) to build a simple strip mall with low-end national retailers that can be found in Anytown, USA. If previous projects by this development group are any indication, this will be a first-rate development.

Greenville- I agree with you that Gulfside will do a good job. I think your posts are well-reasoned. I have worked with that company on another project and visited other ones it did and it is a solid team. I'm not saying that the center will be a slum or anything. I just think that we need to put it in perspective: it will be a well-designed and nice development that will be attractive, and it will probably do better than Greenville Mall did (hopefully a lot better), but the tenants mean that it probably won't be equal to a Phillips Place or Phipps Plaza or the like, at least in merchandise selection. And those news releases by Gulfside, stating that the center will be a "refined" "landmark" build it up, perhaps a bit too much, given the stores that will be in the development, wherever they are located.

Edited June 9, 2006 by mallguy

[gs3]

Well since I can't address this to mallguy, I'll address it to others who are reading. Did the article or anyone equate Magnolia Park, with Phipps Plaza in prestige? I never saw it. Just curious.

From the looks of it, Magnolia Park is going to be a great development. So there should be plenty of positives to discuss.

One day, maybe 20 years from now, Greenville will be ready for the Saks/Neimans/Nordstrom grouping of stores. Not yet.

20 years ago, you think Raleigh or Charlotte thought they would have these stores? In the meantime, we have a great re-use of prime property, and should be proud of that fact.

Edited June 9, 2006 by gsupstate