Project X

[MJLO]

Ok I have been reading up on this, some of the questions, who are the major tenants? all that stuff

All my research keeps bringing my logic back to one thing. There has to be some kind of major corporate anchor, possibly tied to the entertainment industry. It would have to bring in more residents from outside of town, people moving here, people accustomed to a more urban way of living. Because as it sits right now, Grand Rapids could not support a major downtown shopping venue, without first more people who are opened to the idea, In five years of course, after more people have moved to the area, things obviously could have changed. If your wondering what kind of tenant build you might see, I'd look to places like Sommerset to come up with those answers. A venue this big, that's supposed to be a massive divisional draw all over the midwest, would definately garner some of the larger more upscale names in retail and entertainment.

[GRDadof3]

So for possible players, we have:

David Minkin

Duane Faust

ESNA

David Geffen

NBC

UMG

Universal Studios

Steve Katzenberg

Dreamworks

Go to work. thumbsup.gif

Reposted from the other thread. I'm not writing off Geffen yet. No one could make up a "David Geffen Advanced Hearing Institute". It's too obscure, so far off the wall, and so not connected (yet very interconnected) to be fabricated. He has already shown himself to be very tied to the medical research industry through UCLA, including genetic research similar to VARI.

[MJLO]

dad where do you find the "Geffen advanced hearing institute" in the designs and media speculation? I'm going to research it further. Given the magnitude of philanthropy that David Geffen is privy to, It's very possible he could be opening these types of things all over the country eventually.

[6th Gen local]

So for possible players, we have:

David Minkin

Duane Faust

ESNA

David Geffen

NBC

UMG

Universal Studios

Steve Katzenberg

Dreamworks

Go to work. thumbsup.gif

Reposted from the other thread. I'm not writing off Geffen yet. No one could make up a "David Geffen Advanced Hearing Institute". It's too obscure, so far off the wall, and so not connected (yet very interconnected) to be fabricated. He has already shown himself to be very tied to the medical research industry through UCLA, including genetic research similar to VARI.

Donald Trump too?

I like the part in the ESNA document that mentions the 12 million square foot mixed use development and Various entertainment venues.

Just what are these Various Entertainment Venues?

[GRDadof3]

Donald Trump too?

I like the part in the ESNA document that mentions the 12 million square foot mixed use development and Various entertainment venues.

Just what are these Various Entertainment Venues?

I think there was also "Entertainment Conglomerates" used in the ESNA Report.

MJLO, right here (ignore the 100' yacht part):

I am a Real Estate Attorney from Duluth GA. I had an opportunity to review several "plan" documents recently that pertain to the development in Grand Rapids MI. Here is what I can tell you--and what all West Michigan Residents should know:

The development centers around a "Marina/Entertainment" complex located directly off of the Grand River. The river's entire length will be dredged to allow for luxury yachts up to 100' in length. The reason the project is so expensive is that the grand, from Lake MI to downtown Grand Rapids will need to be dredged---it will take 4-5 years at a cost of $500 million dollars. The building of the marina/entertainment area will be modled after Navy Pier in Chicago and will cost OVER $500 million.

This entire project will take 10 years in total to build--with the first 3-4 years being very slow moving.

Ultimately there will be a major sports complex (NFL or MLB) anchoring the property with the Marina being the main draw.

Look for a local investor to pop up with several hundred million to fund the sports team. THat WILL happen by 2010.

The "Port of Grand Rapids" will become a tourist destination and include casino's, adult recreation, sports and music venue's.

It will also house the offices of Interscope Records and teh David Geffen Institute for Advanced Hearing Studies.

The landscape of Grand Rapids will change significantly.

I will remain anonymous but promise to keep you informed.

Your great city will NOT be the same in 5 years!!

What do you make of that? How could someone make that part up?

[MJLO]

well dad, I don't know if it could be made up, I know that people can have very vivid, and meticulous imaginations. I thought I read people questioning the validity of that persons Identity.

I guess my question, would be; What would David Geffen want with Grand Rapids. What could possibly make a Billionare media mogul like David Geffen, even notice GR was there? I'm not saying it couldn't happen, i'm just saying ,

Why David Geffen,

Why GR?

I can understand alot of other things, but this one in particular is a little hard to understand, unless. Geffen is putting his medical research centers all over the country.

[6th Gen local]

I think there was also "Entertainment Conglomerates" used in the ESNA Report.

MJLO, right here (ignore the 100' yacht part):

What do you make of that? How could someone make that part up?

I wouldn't believe one word from the site that was found on.

Why David Geffen,

Why GR?

I can understand alot of other things, but this one in particular is a little hard to understand, unless. Geffen is putting his medical research centers all over the country.

Isn't one of the dreams of our medical community to make Grand Rapids into another health destination ala the Mayo clinic and the Cleveland clinic? If so, Geffen being involved in this makes perfect sense.

[Rizzo]

"Esna is the name of a city that exist in the lower base of the Nile River in the country of Egypt. This city approximately 3500 years ago was considered a center of financial trade. Merchants from West Africa, South Africa and the Middle East would travel to the city of Esna to trade produce, metals, fabrics, live stock, etc. It acquired the reputation of the city where you travel to make money. During this time period, which was actually the 18th Century Dynasty of the Egyptian history, Esna really flourished as a city of finance. It was the equivalent of what we call our modern day Wall Street".

-- http://web.archive.org/web/20050206100923/...aboutus.htm#CEO

An American ESNA for GR? That would certainly change GR.

[GRDadof3]

well dad, I don't know if it could be made up, I know that people can have very vivid, and meticulous imaginations. I thought I read people questioning the validity of that persons Identity.

I guess I missed that, unless you are tallking about this post:

I don't believe this footballboos poster on mlive, google the ID and there's local HS football posts that pop up. lawyer from GA? Gimme a break!

A lawyer from Duluth, GA who now lives here, wouldn't be interested in local football? Perhaps they have kids?? I'm going to assume they moved here, because why else would they read a GRAND RAPIDS PRESS forum.

That to me did not discredit the poster one bit. Most of the people on that forum are crackers, but if you just happened upon it once, you might not know that.

I would like to meet the person who came up with that concept, if it's not true.

[MJLO]

I would like to meet the person who came up with that concept, if it's not true.

I agree, But why all of the sudden are all these people in the know throwing out some of what they know, some of the people in the "know" collude, and some of them collide, not all the puzzle pieces fit yet. But I guess that's the nature of speculation.

[GRDadof3]

I agree, But why all of the sudden are all these people in the know throwing out some of what they know, some of the people in the "know" collude, and some of them collide, not all the puzzle pieces fit yet. But I guess that's the nature of speculation.

That's what I wish you guys would concentrate your energies on. Oh, and I had to copy PBJ's quote here:

I thought about the Why GR question. I have a reason, although long winded:

The guy reported to behind this (Duanne Faust) comes from a "rough" background. When I say rough, I mean typical "odds against you" type thing. He's a black man that has gone from nothing to something very positive. His business ESNA has worked very hard at giving minorities a chance. From what I know of the Black business community, they work hard at making sure they get thier fair shot at things. They are a very tight knit community all looking to help get over a lot of the negative stereo types. Someone with his sort of clout in California/LA knows people who know people

That brings me to GR... look at how off colored some of the reactions to an "Urban Music Campus" have been. The whole "everyone is a hoodlum" outlook. The whole, great "shootings are coming". GIMME A BREAK, i'm sure more white people who work in factories shoot people in the MSA than up and comming Hip Hop artists. Look at the negative image facing the GRPS and some of the heated arguments we've had here even on the boards about race and it's effect on the school system. For those of you new here, I suggest you go read some of the old topics that may not be all that "exciting". There's a lot there that people don't like diggin up from under the rocks.

That brings me back to the whole but why GR thing. We have at least one organization that I know of here looking to make serious postive change not only to the city as an awesome metro area, but also the way we think around here. I along with some others know of certain posters here on THIS very board who are trying to make GR a better place from a physical and MENTAL state. To me, bringing something of this scale (devloped by a MINORITY), which will impact EVERYTHING around here, including wealth, opportunities for minorities, influx of MANY different social classes to our school system (think of how many families with kids could fill 1500+ condo's and townhouses in the downtown area) is a HUGE opportunity. If I were Duanne Faust, I'd see Grand Rapids as the PERFECT place to spark change by something of this magnitude to help a city in need of both Urban revival and a mental change.

I hope this gets read by some people. There are some people who have remained quiet and I'm not going to call them out, but I would like to know thier thoughts on this if they have the ability to do so at this time....

Exactly!! It does say in the ESNA Report that they will obtain syndicated financing for the $1.6 billion.

[PBJ]

That's what I wish you guys would concentrate your energies on. Oh, and I had to copy PBJ's quote here:

Thanks!

[Rizzo]

Anyone catch the taped interview with the Developer on Channel 8?

[mgreven]

Anyone catch the taped interview with the Developer on Channel 8?

Yep, you missed something GREAT...oops...I mean nothing at all. The interview had nothing to do with GR...seemed like it was from some other interview just about his background.

Big shock that there was no news.....

[6th Gen local]

I have a few more questions and ideas.

1.) Will this development kill off the downtown area North of Fulton eventually? Will it compliment it?

2.) Do you see people walking the 1/4 to 1/2 mile from the Wealthy and Market intersection to Rosa Parks circle and beyond? Will downtown transportation change because of this development?

3.) Does this make the SW corner of Fulton and Market the next important development in downtown? It will be the link from the South to the North.

4.) What about the West side of the River? Do empty lots, and scrap metal plants seem like a nice view from the new development?

Lastly, I was thinking about what is unique with Grand Rapids that would bring this project here. I remember reports I have read discussing Grand Rapids supposed racist image and the lack of understanding the African American community has had in this town. Does our diversity problems tie into the developers own youth and make us the perfect target for him to help other African American youths? GR has its problems and maybe this man sees a way to solve those problems while helping us. He sees one of our problems as something unique and it will act as a model for the rest of our country, if not the world.

Maybe thats what makes us unique and possibly worthy of International respect.

I'm not the best writer, I hope my thoughts come across fairly clearly. If not, let me try to explain it better.

[Rizzo]

No, very clear. Good point, also the FBI rates Metro Grand Rapids as the most hate crimes metro in Michigan. Search Google might help in that respect.

According to a recent FBI study, Michigan has the third highest number of hate crimes in the nation. Grand Rapids had the most in the state.

-- http://www.wzzm13.com/news/grmetro_article...x?storyid=52011

Suprised

[GRDadof3]

Anyone catch the taped interview with the Developer on Channel 8?

Yes. I like him. People, especially Hollywood people, love those "rags to riches" stories. Makes for good film.

I think someone used those words here before

[Rizzo]

This would certainly 'cause for a social shake up... You know, a black man comming in with the prospect of 10,000 jobs, billions. Maybe this will show people another side?

[dtown]

do you think it is even possible to dredge the Grand river all the way to Grd. Haven?

environmentalists would never have it

[Rizzo]

Its very possible, but I think the dollars and cents wouldn't makes sense unless the government picked up the tab.

I also remember way back when Shurlow mention (I might be wrong) that the riverfront is preferable, but not necessary.. Anyone remember that far back?

[evac311]

I have a few more questions and ideas.

1.) Will this development kill off the downtown area North of Fulton eventually? Will it compliment it?

2.) Do you see people walking the 1/4 to 1/2 mile from the Wealthy and Market intersection to Rosa Parks circle and beyond? Will downtown transportation change because of this development?

3.) Does this make the SW corner of Fulton and Market the next important development in downtown? It will be the link from the South to the North.

4.) What about the West side of the River? Do empty lots, and scrap metal plants seem like a nice view from the new development?

Lastly, I was thinking about what is unique with Grand Rapids that would bring this project here. I remember reports I have read discussing Grand Rapids supposed racist image and the lack of understanding the African American community has had in this town. Does our diversity problems tie into the developers own youth and make us the perfect target for him to help other African American youths? GR has its problems and maybe this man sees a way to solve those problems while helping us. He sees one of our problems as something unique and it will act as a model for the rest of our country, if not the world.

Maybe thats what makes us unique and possibly worthy of International respect.

I'm not the best writer, I hope my thoughts come across fairly clearly. If not, let me try to explain it better.

I think it would be good if they implemented a countinous downtown shuttle service. They have this in Denver downtown, where there are buses that are free to use along a 2 mile strip. They are spaced so they come like once a minute, so it's super easy to get around.

They might want to try that along Market street so that places like Rosa Parks Circle and other areas north of 131 benifit from project x.

[GRDadof3]

Its very possible, but I think the dollars and cents wouldn't makes sense unless the government picked up the tab.

I also remember way back when Shurlow mention (I might be wrong) that the riverfront is preferable, but not necessary.. Anyone remember that far back?

I do That's why I think the 100' yacht proposal was just that, a proposal, as part of this development. I am still looking into the Geffen thing.

[MJLO]

I actually had the thought to about the possibility of Downtown shifting south, and the vitality of the CBD wavering because of it. I think if anything it will only strengthen it, If people start moving downtown they'll have to live somewhere, and the CBD is a good century old and well established, I think it will all take off together.

[evac311]

I actually had the thought to about the possibility of Downtown shifting south, and the vitality of the CBD wavering because of it. I think if anything it will only strengthen it, If people start moving downtown they'll have to live somewhere, and the CBD is a good century old and well established, I think it will all take off together.

You also think north of I-196 will expirience growth? I am not sure what will come of that area as the critical mass shifts to the south.

[6th Gen local]

There are a few things in the ESNA document that caught my eye.

Page 4.) The second bullet point, in the second larger bullet points. "the city of Grand Rapids will be providing the public portion of the land under a negotiated long term lease arrangement with ESNA..."

Page 6.) The Mid-Term Financing Exit Strategy. A lot of precise things have to happen for this to all fall togther. Any financing experts that can vouch for the practicality of whats mentioned here? Asset development and sale of those assets finance this stage.

Page 6.) The Long Term Financing Exit Strategy. Is this why this document is outdated? Have the "national retailers, entertainment conglomerates, major hotel chains or local and regional business owners" been put into place now?

Page 8.) Acquisition of Public Lands. More mentions of a deferred lease payment plan for the Public property. Is this normal?

Page 11.) Mayor Heartwell's letter to Duane Faust reiterating that the city will not give over title of the land until payment has been made in full.

Thats half of the document that I have looked closely at. Does all of this financing discussion tie together?