Signature Tower

[ATLBrain]

It was a joint project with both developers, as was Encore. They also had a proposal for the Polar Cold Storage parcel downtown at Charlotte and 11th in the North Gulch. As I understand things, he has sold his interest in that property to Novare, who still plans to develop it into a multi-building project sometime in the future. Giarratana, meanwhile, said he needed to focus on the projects he already has in various phases of development (i.e. Signature, Encore, and two buildings in Belle Meade). I believe he also owns some other parking facilities downtown as well.

[producer2]

I heard Dr. Ming Wang (of the eye commercials and ball room dancing) bought the entire 70th floor.

I brought this up the other day when the discussion was centered on foreign investments. My post was deleted, I think the moderator thought I was being funny... and yes the talk is he did buy in the building. Don't know if it was the entire floor but certainly a large penthouse.

[hotshoe]

It was a joint project with both developers, as was Encore. They also had a proposal for the Polar Cold Storage parcel downtown at Charlotte and 11th in the North Gulch. As I understand things, he has sold his interest in that property to Novare, who still plans to develop it into a multi-building project sometime in the future. Giarratana, meanwhile, said he needed to focus on the projects he already has in various phases of development (i.e. Signature, Encore, and two buildings in Belle Meade). I believe he also owns some other parking facilities downtown as well.

Thanks. I did some digging on my own their websites below and it seemed like Viridian and Encore are very cookie cutter versions of what Novare has done all over the place. Did Giaratanna really have much control over the development process or did he just share some ownership ? He seems to have partnered with other experienced developers on most everything on his website. The scope of Signature is as ambitious as almost any in the country right now. Assuming Novare isn't involved with it what does Giaratanna have on his resume without co-developers that would suggest he's capable of pulling such a big project off on his own ? I don't intend the questions to necessarily be critical I'm just curious about his background in light of all the questions about how viable this project really is ?

http://www.giarratana.com

http://www.novaregroup.com/

[ATLBrain]

Thanks. I did some digging on my own their websites below and it seemed like Viridian and Encore are very cookie cutter versions of what Novare has done all over the place. Did Giaratanna really have much control over the development process or did he just share some ownership ? He seems to have partnered with other experienced developers on most everything on his website. The scope of Signature is as ambitious as almost any in the country right now. Assuming Novare isn't involved with it what does Giaratanna have on his resume without co-developers that would suggest he's capable of pulling such a big project off on his own ? I don't intend the questions to necessarily be critical I'm just curious about his background in light of all the questions about how viable this project really is ?

Yes, the Novare projects are very similar. I have seen all of them in Atlanta, Charlotte, and Nashville, and I'd have to agree that Viridian is a little nicer looking than the rest. Unfortunately, it's too close (IMO) to the L&C tower next to it. You can tell that I'm partial to a sliver design.

Regarding Giarratana's experience, I gather from this eternal thread that his expertise exists in the deal-making a'la Trump. I don't think he is a project manager (per se), and that's why he (and Novare) have relied heavily on their construction PMs on their projects. He has had issues with the former general contractor (I don't recall if it was Bovis, but it was a big player) that he had retained for Signature, and they parted ways. If I'm correct, he has not replaced them.

I think there is a lot of doubt from people on whether or not he can pull together a project this size. In my opinion, if he had deeper experience this project would have already been started. To borrow a phrase, I think he bit-off more than he could chew. At this point, I'm afraid its shelf life has expired. Others on this board are more optimistic. We can only wait a while longer to know if this one ever happens.

[nashvylle]

ATLBrain, the contractor he parted ways with was Turner Construction. I am one of those optimistic posters on this forum; I understand your stance however, i do think he will eventually pull it off. The economy has hurt this project more than anything TG and his staff has done. Economy improves.... Signature Tower breaks ground and is constructed.

[ATLBrain]

Ah, yes. Thanks. Turner... Turner... Turner... why didn't I remember that? They're all over the place here in Atlanta.

[Plasticman]

Actually, the original plan was not disapproved by the metro council, but he fired the architect Luscian Lagrange from Chicago. The original height was 700 feet even, nowhere near 850 feet plus.

He went from 55 to 62 to 65 to 70 stories. It was what Tony called "a fluid design" just like West End Summit went through 4 designs already. Needless to say, Tony will put something on this lt.

I like the original 700 foot design the best. 700 feet is not out of the question for Nashville. 1057 feet may even touch on form and personal vanity more than function.

Yes there was a short period between the original flat top design and the current design which was roughly 850'. The tower was still 55 floors at that time but had been redesigned with the spire. After that the hotel was added and the height increased.

[highriser]

I just got back from the big ATL. WOW! Do those guys not know we are in a recession? They have highrises popping up everywhere, and not just in downtown. They have areas that have just as many highrises now as the old downtown. We need to get our Siggy going...

[Nashville_maestro]

I just got back from the big ATL. WOW! Do those guys not know we are in a recession? They have highrises popping up everywhere, and not just in downtown. They have areas that have just as many highrises now as the old downtown. We need to get our Siggy going...

I feel the exact same way after every time I get back. I hate to be negative here but Atlanta is still outpacing Nashville by leaps and bounds. Buckhead alone is as big as downtown Nashville now. I really think that that city is going to implode on itself someday though. Its growing so fast the government can't keep up. Cue water crisis...

[Flowers]

i was also recently there and was equally impressed with the amount of activity, as well as the quality of some of the towers underway in buckhead. the fact that signature would dwarf everything underway right now in this market of 4-5 million was not lost on me. for some that may be exactly why there is so much cheering for signature but for me it was more confirmation that nashville has a very long way to go and many new urban buildings to absorb at all ends of the spectrum before anything so massive (pricing and number of units) will be feasible or to scale here.

forgive me for making this observation but it's almost as if several among us are seeking a short cut to what they perceive as the elevated status of having a taller building than atlanta, charlotte, tampa, etc. i can't help but wonder if our deep passion for this tallest tower status isn't seen a bit as small town naivete by our fellow big sister cities. unfortunately, i think we simply have to "do the work" and build our urban environment more thoughtfully, even if that occurs with several smaller projects. frankly, i think we'd be better off focusing our energy on what we want those smaller projects to do to advance our cause rather than celebrating/bemoaning every significant and insignificant gesture this project makes, but that's just me.

all that being said i think there is now a certain entertainment value attached to the plight of signature. and despite my sentiements noted above even i am unable to avoid getting my sig fix when a crumb is thrown our way. but more and more the promise of news that seems to foreshadow most recent articles is more tantalizing than the "news" itself. oh well...one way or another i think the last chapter written about the sig tower is going to be spectacular. i guess that's what keeps us all tuned in.

[smeagolsfree]

Just remember that Atlanta Mero has over 5 million people in it. That is at least 2 and a half times the number of the Nashville Metro area which BTW is even larger in land area than the Atalanta area and surrounding counties. I think Flowers is right on track with the above comments. Signature or some other super tall will happen when Nashville is ready.

[highriser]

Just remember that Atlanta Mero has over 5 million people in it. That is at least 2 and a half times the number of the Nashville Metro area which BTW is even larger in land area than the Atalanta area and surrounding counties. I think Flowers is right on track with the above comments. Signature or some other super tall will happen when Nashville is ready.

Exactly. I remember someone saying that Dubai has the same population as Nashville and look at their # of supertalls. We have to remember though, that 1.5 million is crammed into a much smaller area because of a surrounding dry desert. I want us to get a big supertall, but only when we need it and we won't be embarrassed as a city because we can't fill it...

[Nashville_maestro]

I said that. I was refrencing the fact that the developers there have more guts than what is generally found in the united states today. Not that Nashville needs to have just as many buildings as them. Burj dubai is a gutsy building for a city of any size.

Take it from me. I lived in atlanta for a really long time and it is faaar from perfect. In fact, just about everyone that i ever knew there that had ever set foot in nashville said that they liked it better. One guy was even trying to move here but couldnt because of work issues. Atlanta is a great city and all but so is Nashville. I do think that Nashville is in better shape for where it is than Atlanta was back in the day when they were just 1.5 million strong. That's just my opinion though. It will be exiting to see where we are at in 20 years. It will be exiting to see where atlanta is in 20 years too for that matter. If only I had a time machine.

[Shuzilla]

I want us to get a big supertall, but only when we need it and we won't be embarrassed as a city because we can't fill it...

I seem to recall that the Empire State building was sort of a flop as office space from the outset. It's location away from other towers and the economic situation at the time left it with a high vacancy for years. If someone knows more about this, feel free to chime in. Nonetheless, no one can doubt the iconic status of tha building. As a Nashvillian, I don't mind ST being 25% empty, as if that's something to be embarrassed about in today's RE climate.

[nashscan]

I thought the failure of Church St Centre was lack of demand, not crime. I was younger, but I remember feeling very safe. It seemed to be somewhat upscale. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Plasticman]

It's not too tall if it is buildable. Again as stated many, many times....Charlotte had fewer towers than Nashville when it built BOA and it loomed nearly 300 feet taller than its closest rival. Mobile has a ridiculously tall tower for its population. But both are fine.

[monsoon]

I seem to recall that the Empire State building was sort of a flop as office space from the outset. It's location away from other towers and the economic situation at the time left it with a high vacancy for years. If someone knows more about this, feel free to chime in. Nonetheless, no one can doubt the iconic status of tha building. As a Nashvillian, I don't mind ST being 25% empty, as if that's something to be embarrassed about in today's RE climate.

The Empire State building got hit by the double whammys of the great depression followed by WWII so yes it had a lot of un-leased space for a long time. However the building did make money from selling tickets to its observation decks.

On the other hand, these days, it's a lot tougher to get financing to build a tower unless it is clear the space in the tower is going to be sold or leased. In this case, since it is a condo tower, I believe we have heard that 65% of the building must be sold before the developer can get a construction loan. Keep in mind the developer may want a higher number than this because he loses money on every unsold condo until it is sold.

[Shuzilla]

On the other hand, these days, it's a lot tougher to get financing to build a tower unless it is clear the space in the tower is going to be sold or leased. In this case, since it is a condo tower, I believe we have heard that 65% of the building must be sold before the developer can get a construction loan. Keep in mind the developer may want a higher number than this because he loses money on every unsold condo until it is sold.

Understood. My point is that an under-occupied "Siggy" tower takes nothing away from the pride of this city or her inhabitants. Financing is a challenge world-wide. Looking at an economic downturn led by a burstng housing bubble, I don't think other cities are going to say that Nashville overreached, should ST be built but not succeed as planned. This same project would have a hard time flying anywhere else at this time.

Besides, before all this blows over, a lot of cities across the US will be too busy licking their own wounds to point at our little heroic tower and laugh.

[BrandonTO416]

I haven't checked up on Signature Tower in probably half a year, so the tower still isn't breaking ground?

[it's just dave]

No, not yet. Seems ground is breaking all over town though. At least there's plenty of other things to watch grow.

[BrandonTO416]

Alright, I'll check back again in after 6 months to see whats going on.

[samsonh]

Signature will not be constructed ever. I would love to take bets on its construction. I cannot believe some still believe it will break ground this year. That is simply laughable.

[highriser]

Signature will not be constructed ever. I would love to take bets on its construction. I cannot believe some still believe it will break ground this year. That is simply laughable.

I don't really understand how it is laughable. Improbible maybe, but not laughable...I have confidence that Nashville will find a way to make it happen.

[samsonh]

Laughable was a strong word, improbable is more correct. The capital markets are in a difficult way right now, especially if you are trying to finance a project of this scope. I think this building is beautiful, but feel that Tony would have been better served trying to build another nice 30-40 story building that catered to a more diverse crowd economically. The economy is teetering on the edge of recession, and if Tony could not stir up adequate demand to secure financing in one of the greatest housing markets of all time he is not going to do it in much tougher circumstances. Thats really all it comes down to.

[elvigy]

I think the past few days in the financial markets have dealt another tough blow to the Signature Tower. With BoA buying out Countrywide just to staunch the flow of blood, and with the markets worldwide tanking because they think the US is most definitely heading into recession, I think any lender considering backing the Sig is going to want close to iron-clad proof that this won't become another splotch of red ink. That is, I wouldn't count on this even being approved by any lender without at least 70-80% of the units contracted out.

For the foreseeable future, the banks and other lenders are going to be shoring up their assets while trying to minimize, hide or divest themselves of their problems. I just don't see any major project getting started during 2008 (barring some kind of guarantee of a return on the money). And from everything I've seen and read on this project, it just doesn't have that going for it.