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Signature Tower

NewTowner

By NewTowner
in Nashville

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Hankster Town

Hankster

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I have asked before and I will ask again, why not go multi use with hotel, condo and office? I understand that it will cost some more money to change, but imo it is that or nothing.

The original proposal (700 Ft - 55 Stories - no spire) was just that. The office market was not near as good then as it is now, so Giarratana decided not to pursue the office component. If he had an office component and a tenant lined up, lining up financing would be much less difficult. Still, I think that Giarratana believes in his heart that he will build this as a hotel - condo project, and redesigning to include office space will not be necessary.

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Rural King Town

Rural King

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I would think an office component could be a winner, lots of firms I would wager would like the prestige of securing office space in what would sure to be the state's premier high-rise structure. Not sure if it could make the project happen anytime before the economy turns around, but it could help realize the project materializes at it's current scope/height.

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franktown Hamlet

franktown

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I think the issue would be with the lobby. The residents don't want to share a lobby with the office-dwellers or the hoteliers I would assume. That's why he has the different entrances for the hotel and residences on Church and 5th. I guess he could use St. Cloud Alley for the Office section, but that'd be tough. I think he's just going to need to hole up and try to wait out the mortgage crisis/softened economy

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monsoon Gigalopolis

monsoon

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I have been hearing the recent real estate bubble that has led to these kind of projects was a 100 year bubble and not likely to be repeated again in the lifetime of any adult reading this forum. Average real estate values in the United States rose 65%-87% between 2000-2008 which is completely unsustainable when you consider that real actual household finances actually fell.

Towers such as the Signature tower are going to be challenged for their viability. People have said here the mortgage meltdown doesn't the Signature tower because the people who can afford this place don't worry about money. So forgetting the fact that even in this crowd there don't seem to be enough buyers for this project, with the finance industry melting down because of the rest of the market is tanking so the number of banks that can finance this project has gotten a lot smaller. Banks are left with having to raise billions in capital just to keep from being taken over and IMO are not going to have a quarter of a billion (or more now) to lay out for another residential construction project. As has been pointed out repeatedly in this topic, the fundamentals just don't seem to be there, and now my guess is any financing deal that existed 2 years ago has been thrown out the window.

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dxartist Hamlet

dxartist

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I honestly beleive that Tony will have to do the following to make Signature Tower happen. This is because I don't see it likely that he can get to 200 sales contracts and obtain financing before excavating the project, even if the condo market improves. I beleive this because of the difficulty he had getting past about 140 reservations even before the condo market soured.

1. Make a determination that the condo market has turned around.

2. Go ahead and excavate the project with his own money.

3. Sell the necessary number of condos to get financing during the excavation phase taking advantage of the media attention and momentum that would created.

4. Obtain financing and complete the project.

I know these all significant hurdles, but I think Tony Giarratana has the ability and will power to see this thing through.

I can tell you Tony won't do #2. If I remember correctly, he was trying to get a partner to finance the $5 million for excavation. Obvioulsy no takers. Besides, he mentioned in one of his TV interviews he's put like $22 million in this project already. So I don't think he will put any more money than he has to.

I would think an office component could be a winner, lots of firms I would wager would like the prestige of securing office space in what would sure to be the state's premier high-rise structure. Not sure if it could make the project happen anytime before the economy turns around, but it could help realize the project materializes at it's current scope/height.

Someone posted many pages ago the problem with adding the office component to what is already proposed is having to redesign the building due to various building codes and requirements. I'm guessing that will be millions more out of his pocket.

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Rural King Town

Rural King

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^ Without a doubt re-designing the project would add millions in costs and be more hurdles for the project. I think however if this project is to ever become reality in it's current scope it's probably going to have to re-designed to either include office space to draw a new sector that will commit funds to the project, or re-designed downwards. Either way I think most of us are probably at the point were we can agree this project is probably not going to move forward in it's current form anytime soon barring some unforseen event(s) altering the reality of the fundamentals. The only alternative thus seems to be more money being spent to design something substantial and profit making for the site, over sitting on millions in investment that may not have a return for years, or ever - resulting in a substantial loss in time and capital funds.

I still think at the end of the day in a few years we will see a subtantial and bold project go up on this site, be called Signature Tower or named something else due a redesign. The city continues to see good helathy growth, so we just have to be patient. Good things come to those wait, even if those good things are not exactly how we originally invisioned them or hoped they would turn out.

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jice Burg

jice

Posted
Posted

Saw Tony G on the local Fox news tonight.. didn't hear all of it, but he did mention that the downtown condo market is not saturated, even including all the new projects under construction.. there is still demand for somethin like 2000 more I think?

Also, the reporter said Signature Tower may not get completed until 2011. And some mention of the project being a victim of the economy right now.

Nothing really newsworthy here I guess... just nice to know the project is still on Tony's mind.

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Shuzilla Whistle-Stop

Shuzilla

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Saw Tony G on the local Fox news tonight.. didn't hear all of it, but he did mention that the downtown condo market is not saturated, even including all the new projects under construction.. there is still demand for somethin like 2000 more I think?

The DT condo market may not be saturated, but at what price point can condos still be sold? The ST spaces seem awfully expensive. Part of the RE bubble was folks overextending themselves to get double-digit returns on as expensive a property as one could get financing for. A 10% appreciation on $500K is twice that of $250K, right? Unfortunately, a 10% depreciation is twice as much of a hit on the more expensive property, as millions are learning. The real question is, if you buy it, will someone be there to buy it form you at a price reasonably close to what you paid?

For me, the trend to living downtown is not the same as living downtown long enough to make buying smarter than renting. I think that Nashville is and will be for some time a suburban city, and folks will migrate to the suburbs to raise families more often than not. For the prices of many of these condominums, there are lots of choices in the nice old suburbs within 20 minutes of downtown. We need $150K condos that 20-somethings can afford without having to sacrifice the lifestyle that draws them downtown.

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nashvylle City

nashvylle

Posted
Posted

Does anyone have a link to that fox story, I thought I saw a fox story about a week or so ago, and I wonder if it's the same one.

I don't think reducing the # of floors is an option, just because he'd have to get it passed by mdha and then start from scratch. I think the economy is a huge part in the delay, but I read in the Economist yesterday (which is a negative magazine IMO) that they think the worst of the credit crunch is over.

Would it be possible to turn some of the condos into apartments? I believe this might add a bunch of money to the project and maybe get it off the ground sooner than later.

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Plasticman Hamlet

Plasticman

Posted
Posted

The number of floors of this building isn't what is holding it up. It is the economy. If this project had been approved back in 2004 or 2005 it would be standing tall today. Going higher is expensive but I cringe when I hear someone mistakenly say things like "Such and such city isn't ready for a building this tall". There is no "ready" to it. That premise just doesn't make sense to me. The only thing that matters are the local height restrictions, the infrastructure of the area like water, sewer, etc., and the demand. If all are in line, you could build a 2,000 foot tower in a Nebraska cornfield.

Does anyone know how his April marketing push is going? I have the feeling if it were good news it would be all over the media.

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nashvylle City

nashvylle

Posted
Posted

ParkAve--

Tony's problem isn't selling the most expensive condos high up, as a matter of fact the 5 million penthouse on the 70th floor is under contract (not just reserve), and I believe the there were more on the 65-70th already under contract.

I agree with Plasticman and blame the economy. This building needs lax lending requirements to get it off the ground so the buyers on the bubble will put forth the money; and I believe it will sell out once it goes under construction.

As far as the April Marketing, I know for a fact that Tony is waiting for the economy to settle down before he puts for the marketing compaign, which yes was supposed to be in April.

Hopefully the economy and lending requirements will improve very soon.

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timmay143 Burg

timmay143

Posted
Posted

Just saw a report on Channel 4 reporting how he is a year behind and is waiting on the housing market to turn around, he hopes in months. Same stuff. However, one interesting thing he said was about some "out of the box solutions" which he couldn't disclose at the moment. Wonder what that means?

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nashvylle City

nashvylle

Posted
Posted

I saw that too. I found the "out of the box" stuff interesting as well. I like how they said the main probably was the banks tough requirements on loans (via economy), rather than presales. I would love to see this break ground this year. Who cares about the delay, as long as Signature Tower gets built.

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pompusmaximus Unincorporated Area

pompusmaximus

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Posted

Couldn't find a link to the story that I saw the other day on Fox - but really not much different from what was said on channel 4. Other than not mentioning that the downtown market is not yet saturated.

I did find a link to that one:

http://www.wsmv.com/news/16216380/detail.h...sh&psp=news

After watching that video, this Tony G guy sounds pretty cool. He seems to have embraced density and good urban design principles; which is quite hard to find in Southern land developers.

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nashvylle City

nashvylle

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http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl...ONTPAGECAROUSEL

I have a lot of respect for Tony. He is definitely dedicated to Nashville. I think this is just a very hard time for our economy, but hopefully it will improve soon. With the new convention center coming, maybe it will help acquiring loans with the increased number of hotel rooms in Hotel Palomar.

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dmillsphoto Town

dmillsphoto

Posted
Posted

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl...ONTPAGECAROUSEL

I have a lot of respect for Tony. He is definitely dedicated to Nashville. I think this is just a very hard time for our economy, but hopefully it will improve soon. With the new convention center coming, maybe it will help acquiring loans with the increased number of hotel rooms in Hotel Palomar.

"Giarratana said in an interview that he has decided to cut out 25 floors of condos and will replace them with another business — possibly offices or more hotel rooms — to keep the tower at its proposed height of more than 1,000 feet."

It's about time this came to be

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timmay143 Burg

timmay143

Posted
Posted

Wow...I hope this ends up being good news and not drag on forever. This thread is about to get real busy.

edit: I guess this was his out of the box thinking? I'm trying not to get too excited, but this sounds good. I agree that more hotel space would probably be good since the CC is in the works? :dontknow:

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