Signature Tower

[rocky top buzz]

nashvol, you could be right about that, but I would suspect that if this town once had the largest tower in the southeast in the 1950's, that the people who remember those days would love to get them back.

I can vouch for one who would love to see a 70 story tower. I don't want to live downtown, but I wish they would put meeting space for lease on the top floor. What a great place for a business meeting!!!

[nashvol85]

nashvol, you could be right about that, but I would suspect that if this town once had the largest tower in the southeast in the 1950's, that the people who remember those days would love to get them back.

I can vouch for one who would love to see a 70 story tower. I don't want to live downtown, but I wish they would put meeting space for lease on the top floor. What a great place for a business meeting!!!

If they build anything that tall it should have a restaurant in the top (with it's own dedicated elevator) so the general public can be up there. Hell, they can sell tickets to get to the top floor like they do in other mega towers.

I would love to see a 70 story/1,000 footer in Nashville, but they need to beef up it's neighbors first. We need some more 600-800 footers first IMO.

Some people would love having the tallest tower in the south, others would say "that's so not Nashville" because they don't ever want to think of Nashville as a big metropolitan city.

[cdub]

If they build anything that tall it should have a restaurant in the top (with it's own dedicated elevator) so the general public can be up there. Hell, they can sell tickets to get to the top floor like they do in other mega towers.

I would love to see a 70 story/1,000 footer in Nashville, but they need to beef up it's neighbors first. We need some more 600-800 footers first IMO.

Some people would love having the tallest tower in the south, others would say "that's so not Nashville" because they don't ever want to think of Nashville as a big metropolitan city.

Sorry, but unless you've got a couple of mil to spend or some really rich friends, most of us will never get the chance. As far as what has been previously discussed, it's all residential. I could be wrong.

If this so called 'glut' actually does happen even though most think it won't, where will the remaining retail come from to truly support a neighborhood? If you tap out the mixed use market too early, other opportunities for retail to come in will be close to nil. Unless, of course they build their own buildings. The problem with these mega-residential towers are they only offer a few opportunities for retail/ service oriented business and if we've got this many people downtown, no more mixed use development happening because the residential market is saturated, where do these other services go?

Seems like we're going about it all ass-backwards. So much for a vision for SoBro, we're not going to need one now with all these rumors swallowing everything up. We'll get a real test for the demand downtown/ high-rise once Viridian really goes up for sale. I imagine half will sell, the other half facing L&C will be a tougher one.

[LA_TN]

IMO, going over 900 feet will begin to look out-of-place. However, a) one tall boy may spur others and b) no guts, no glory. Ya never know, the lenders may be saying "Hey Tony, you've got overwhelming response for this, so why not add another 15 floors?"

**Also, I really think some of you do not have any unwrapped presents on X-mas morning. I guess I have enough patience to wait.

[nashvol85]

We'll get a real test for the demand downtown/ high-rise once Viridian really goes up for sale. I imagine half will sell, the other half facing L&C will be a tougher one.

I'm pretty sure every unit has already been sold...

[jice]

As was said before... I think the 'tallest tower in the southeast' argument could go over well for pushing Signature.

This is all not researched at all... cuz I don't have time to right now. But think about this.... back when L&C was built, what was the tallest building in Nashville? I know it definitely stuck above everything else by quite a bit. So let's say the tallest was somewhere around 10 stories, and L&C is somewhere around 30. (Someone please correct me if they know the facts) The point is... that's an increase by 3x. BellSouth is what, 31 or 33? (Can't rem)... so the new 'tallest in the southeast' (or all of the south for that matter), could be upwards of 90 stories using that logic. Even if the numbers are way off, im sure L&C was at least twice as tall as everything else... so upwards of 70 stories, IMO, would not be crazy talk.

[smeagolsfree]

I'm pretty sure every unit has already been sold...

100% sold out 6 months before completion. Sometimes you do not have to have a great view. Remember the words of most real estate people,"location,location,location"

[cdub]

100% sold out 6 months before completion. Sometimes you do not have to have a great view. Remember the words of most real estate people,"location,location,location"

I guess we need to qualify sold out. 100% sold out with 50% sold to investors is not 100% sold out. Look again at Tampa or Miami or any other that has had huge condo development. They oversold to investors, now the investors can't move their units.

These units are primarily sold on view, just look at their marketing and then tell me you wouldn't be upset to be saddled with a unit looking at a stone wall less than 10' away. I'm betting there's a lot of people that weren't expecting that.

One other question I've had, are developers using the numbers for the downtown study and saying that means all high-rise. Or are they using the numbers, saying I want as big of a piece as fast as I can, and building higher and higher? Where does the rich, urban fabric that we all think is vital for downtown when you've got a 50 story here, 4 blocks away another 50 story, and if patterns keep going they way they are rumored now, we won't have any units available for mid-rise/ low-rise in the downtown core other than conversions.

While on the topic of rumors, I've heard quite a few units in the Viridian were bought by wealthy individuals for a weekend retreat or stumbling home pad. Does that contribute numbers needed for retail/ services?

[smeagolsfree]

Are you sure about the 50% number being sold to investors is correct. I would not think the number is near that high. I would bet someone close to Tony would know for sure. Hint Hint for anyone.

If view is a factor then there would be no one buying the mid rise units because you dont have much of a view except for the street below. Many of the lofts that are being sold downtown are no more expensive than the units in the Viridian.

[cdub]

Are you sure about the 50% number being sold to investors is correct. I would not think the number is near that high. I would bet someone close to Tony would know for sure. Hint Hint for anyone.

If view is a factor then there would be no one buying the mid rise units because you dont have much of a view except for the street below. Many of the lofts that are being sold downtown are no more expensive than the units in the Viridian.

I was just throwing out a number for the percentage, but I'm probably in the ballpark.

I'm also not saying mid-rise is better for its view. Not sure where you took that from. Rather, it's enhancement of the urban fabric and the excitement it can provide at street level is in my opinion what makes it a far superior product.

[memphian]

When you talk about the need for retail/services in downtown you need to realize that a lot of that "fluff" is already there and will be able to support the new residents of the cbd for a while. Go to any 'big city' and watch where people shop for everyday items: Walgreens, Duane Reade, Longs - mostly drug stores. The services are things like: dry cleaners, coffee shops, salons/spas and restaurants. Downtown Nashville has a spattering of places to support residents. I don't think there will be many bored housewives that need a store to shop in 8 hours a day. If anything you may see some newer residents opening up their own businesses and filling the voids they see. Besides, every tower will at least bring one more store or service downtown.

[Plasticman]

As much as I'd hate to see BOA Atlanta lose the #1 spot, I am happy for Nashville and hope Signature is #1. It will stick up, that's for sure but as an earlier poster said, so did L&C. I remember seeing Charlotte's BOA go up and it stuck up almost by itself and I don't believe it had the infill Nashville does now. But Charlotte is now really booming with infill towers like Hearst and some other planned 600-700' buildings that will still keep BOA their tallest but the skyline will be balanced.

Besides if you guys take the #1 spot, maybe Atlanta's own pride won't allow it for long and they'll lure some developer to build a 1,200 footer (maybe Trump?), which would not be too dramatic given the 700-1,000 footers already here and the numerous 500-600 footers all over the place. It may all be mute anyway as Miami I believe is planning some 1,200 foot twin towers.

[doormanpoet]

My philosophy basically is that I don't believe it before I see it. Here are a few examples of what was promised and never built.

1) Ryman Center: one 47 story building surrounded by five 27 story buildings. ECD 1989

2) Nashville City Center 2: @ 40 stories the tallest office tower for Nashville. ECD 1990

3) Broadway Center: A 19 story tower built on top of the old post office. ECD 1988

4) A 45 story hotel currently where the TPAC building now sits. ECD 1980

5) The original Cumberland: A 19 story office tower where the Marriot Courtyard sits on 4th Avenue. ECD 1990

6) A 48 story office tower on 7th and Commerce: Now a surface parking lot. ECD 1987

7) A 45 story office tower on 7th and Commerce where the James Robertson sits. ECD 1987

8) The Nashville Tower: A 750 foot observation tower where riverfront park now sits. ECD 1975

9)Plaza for the Arts: a 12 story tower on 12th and Demonbreun. ECD 2005

10) The Towers at Lebanon, TN. four 80 story towers and a 100,000 seat football stadium. ECD unknown.

Lets not get our hopes up for anything. Let's not get disappointed.

DP

[Onyte9]

The WTC stuck above the NY skyline. I'm a skyscraper fanatic so I hate to see someone say they dont want a tower that tall. I believe the location is perfect for a supertall building. I would gladly welcome the Signature and any other 70 floor tower to Nashvegas.

[Dale]

My basic philosophy on highrises is, go ahead, get your hopes up. It's not like a cancellation is going to sting any less for maintaining a publicly-cautionary countenance.

[MidTenn1]

I think we will see the vast majority of the proposed condo's happen. This City's (Metro area) capacity to absorb all this high priced housing being proposed boggles the mind. But that is what is happening.

For example, the Harpeth Shoals project in Ashland City has already sold 40 of the 137 units and all penthouses have been sold. Construction will start this summer.

[bzorch]

So can we all agree on what sold means. Obviously, the developer sells all of the units, but if they are sold to investors then are they really sold or just moved on to a different balance sheet?

[Hankster]

Assuming that the rumor about a 70 story Signature Tower is correct, we WILL see built right here in Nashville what could very well be the tallest structure in the US outside New York and Chicago. Unlike most of the projects Doorman listed, this is a very serious project that has been approved. There is no building height restriction at the site, so Tony can build it as tall as he wants as long as he secures funding. There is little doubt that Tony will secure funding due to current market conditions. The fact that some of the units (maybe even a high percentage) will be purchased by investors will not deter Tony from getting his funding for the project. The rumor out now is that he has secured "W" hotels for a portion of the project. If that's true the project is an absolute lead pipe cinch, IMO.

It is true that there is a limit for downtown residential in Nashville, or in any city for that matter. However, the market for downtown housing development is in it's infancy in Nashville, unlike in cities like Miami. Investors will likely be able to resell units that are bought in Nashville for a considerable time until pentup demand (nowhere near met at this point) is satisfied.

Again, there is absolutely little doubt that Signature Tower will be built, and I, for one, do hope it is built at 70 stories. It may stick up like a sore thumb for a while, but so did the L&C Tower, or the Peachtree Plaza Hotel in Atlanta. The time is right for such a development. The market conditions exist, the demand is there, and the right developer is here and he has the vision and the means to make this happen. The conditions for something like this may not exist again in the future, so now is the time to take advantage of this opportunity. This project will long become a symbol for Nashville...a symbol that I, for one, will be most proud and appreciative of. Thanks Tony Giarratana for all you've done and are planning to do.

[smeagolsfree]

Everyone needs a sore thumb every now and then.

[Claws]

It's not like developers have been scrambling to throw 70-story buildings up all over downtown. Signature will probably be the tallest one built. The need for low- to midrise in SoBro will still be there after Signature is finished.

[barakat]

I guess anyone who registered for the Signature tower list got the invite with info on the 'exclusive preview of the scale model' at the Cumberland, April 29 from 5-7pm. I wonder if new details will hit the media before this event. Either way I guess it will put to rest the speculation of final height.

[Claws]

Yes! I got one of those invitations. I'm hoping I'll be able to attend.

[Hankster]

All of us who don't have invitations are waiting with baited breath for a report on the proceedings. Pictures of the model would be sincerely appreciated! I've got my calender marked for the date, and will be looking for reports from forumers who attended on April 30th.

[NewTowner]

I have just seen the latest builds, and the Signature Tower is looking much better than it did before.

The entire structure has been given some entasis in the simplest possible fashion, in that it draws in upon itself as it ascends, breaking up the sense of dead weight and giving the "lotus flower" crown an actual aesthetic purpose. It now visually functions much more like a column-and-capital, rather than an illustrious and shimmering aluminum-fencepost-and-Burger-King-sack.

In a word or two: Art Deco. What I mean is, while the Signature Tower is still motion-streamlined and committed to machinism (a weakness), it also possesses the compromise with classicism that almost all good Art Deco possessed, in that it contains elements which are human-scaled, enough detail to satisfy the human eye/brain combo, and an organic lilt that gives the building a head and body. Like organic systems and all good buildings, it has a bottom, middle, and top...which rocks, and marks a HUGE improvement over the previous bottomless corporate rock-candy blob that Signature Tower used to be at street level. Some talented people have made some big adjustments, and it shows.

It is very tall, which delivers some mixed feelings into my heart, but whatever. I won't be paying the cooling costs on this joker, or the Exterior Tolerability electric bill. Somebody posted something earlier to the effect that "skyscrapers are more energy efficient than midrises," but I don't think a sane person could even glance at these renderings and still assert that Bologne Hogwash with a straight face...but whatever. Whatever, and stuff.

The Signature Tower might still need a new name, but at least the ground floor is now articulate and not as stupid as it used to be. There is actually a rather compelling interplay between horizontal and vertical elements, which are mostly impressive because they reveal a self-conscious internal attempt at mitigating the building's own overbearing height...and I think they will achieve some measure of success, particularly when it is raining and you are walking home from NewTowner's new downtown pub. It offers covering shelter to the passerby and resident. In other words, some good old-fashioned (GOF) common sense has been applied, and it is welcome.

Welcome, I tell you.

[it's just dave]

Really good things in this post.

After I looked up "entasis" in the dictionary, and after my brief blush, I was quite excited to hear this news. We were told the street level issues would be addressed and I can't wait to see the model and other information on the 29th. Thanks, NT. This is a beautiful thing.