Signature Tower

[FriendlyFlier]

Honestly, I'd take a couple more Terrazzo's or Bristol's around town than the Sig at this point. Something that adds base to DT, the Gulch, or West End instead of a showy, not to mention empty, building the size of Sig. Even the batman building is still partly empty right?

[skybolt900]

Maybe he will go back to the original design and have Novare' partner with him.

[skybolt900]

Tony's main issue with this project, is that it is based on luxury and lifestyle for only one demographic rather than the good of Nashville. I would rather see Tony build five 20 story apartment towers at a reasonable price so people could live downtown and walk or use mass transit rather than drive cars and create more infrastructure needs based on the automobile.

Tony achieved, only moderately, that purpose with Viridian, Cumberland and Encore. Yet, those developments are still for people making income of over $75,000 per year. How about a condo tower with units in the $125,000 to $150,000 range where people with incomes in the $30,000 to $50,000 range can live, work, play downtown without the need of luxury, expensive automobiles, and excess.

If Tony converted his business plan from one based on wants, desires, luxury, excess, lifestyle, and social status to one based on needs, function, purpose, green building, productivity, conservation, and civic responsibility, his tower may indeed get built.

[atlrvr]

I'm not sure there is a large market in Nashville for people wanting to live in 300 sq. ft. and less.

[producer2]

Tony's main issue with this project, is that it is based on luxury and lifestyle for only one demographic rather than the good of Nashville. I would rather see Tony build five 20 story apartment towers at a reasonable price so people could live downtown and walk or use mass transit rather than drive cars and create more infrastructure needs based on the automobile.

Tony achieved, only moderately, that purpose with Viridian, Cumberland and Encore. Yet, those developments are still for people making income of over $75,000 per year. How about a condo tower with units in the $125,000 to $150,000 range where people with incomes in the $30,000 to $50,000 range can live, work, play downtown without the need of luxury, expensive automobiles, and excess.

If Tony converted his business plan from one based on wants, desires, luxury, excess, lifestyle, and social status to one based on needs, function, purpose, green building, productivity, conservation, and civic responsibility, his tower may indeed get built.

Actually Viridian sold out immediately and Encore is over 80% sold at this point so I would say Tony did ok with that particular market segment.

[monsoon]

......

If Tony converted his business plan from one based on wants, desires, luxury, excess, lifestyle, and social status to one based on needs, function, purpose, green building, productivity, conservation, and civic responsibility, his tower may indeed get built.

Indeed. There is still a big need for housing directed towards the middle class.

[producer2]

Indeed. There is still a big need for housing directed towards the middle class.

And there is a plan for that as we speak. Problem is not enough folks are interested in what that amount of money will buy so consequently not many developers are lining up to build those buildings. Currently there are well over 250 condos on the market in Nashville's urban area #1 that list for $100,000 to $185,000. The least expensive listing in the downtown core is $159,000. It is hard to imagine that it will ever cost much less to live in the core.

[skybolt900]

The Tennessean reported the Encore was 40% vacant as I recall and they are having to lease units to generate revenue. Regardless, as long as Tony Giaratanna is give Carte' Blanche' to be the skyscraper king of Nashville, at least build affordable units which are truly affordable!

If he did a rehabilitation on the Bennie Dillon, than someone should do it with the James Robertson Apartments as well. Let someone making $30,000 have an affordable unit in the CBD.

[jice]

And there is a plan for that as we speak. Problem is not enough folks are interested in what that amount of money will buy so consequently not many developers are lining up to build those buildings. Currently there are well over 250 condos on the market in Nashville's urban area #1 that list for $100,000 to $185,000. The least expensive listing in the downtown core is $159,000. It is hard to imagine that it will ever cost much less to live in the core.

What plan are you referring to?

[producer2]

The Tennessean reported the Encore was 40% vacant as I recall and they are having to lease units to generate revenue. Regardless, as long as Tony Giaratanna is give Carte' Blanche' to be the skyscraper king of Nashville, at least build affordable units which are truly affordable!

If he did a rehabilitation on the Bennie Dillon, than someone should do it with the James Robertson Apartments as well. Let someone making $30,000 have an affordable unit in the CBD.

80% sold and 68% occupied so far. Developers care a lot less about whether you actually live in the units as long as you buy them.

[producer2]

What plan are you referring to?

http://www.civicdesigncenter.org/downloads...using_Forum.pdf

[Hankster]

I'm not sure there is a large market in Nashville for people wanting to live in 300 sq. ft. and less.

Anyone wishing for new downtown core highrise living options for people earning $30,000 per year will have to be willing to live in 300 to 400 Sq Ft units. Unfortunately, land costs and construction costs are just too high to provide housing for less than about $300 per Sq. Ft.

[skybolt900]

Not sure if that is true Hankster. There are town homes on the North Capital side for $179,000. It could be done in the CBD if some of the developers were not so greedy.

[donNdonelson]

As for the James Robertson Apartments.....that is a MDHA section 8 building and I think it very unlikely that it would ever be handed over to private development.

[skybolt900]

Actually, it is NOT an MDHA building at all. It is a privately owned building owned by George and James Keenan out of Franklin, TN. It is officially James Robertson Apartments incorporated. They have no relationship with MDHA at all and it is NOT section 8, as none of the residents are employed. It is also a homeless hostel that has a relationship with the Union Resucue Mission as an overflow facility.

I have toured the building with a journalist, undercover mind you, and the place is full of rats, roaches, chronic alcoholism, and people die in their rooms alone on a regular basis. Fights, fires, and medical emergencies are commonplace. The manager Vickie is irate with any journalist that writes an expose' of the place including unexplained deaths and homeless agitators like "Cowboy" who has been arrested several times for public drunkeness and violent protests at new developments downtown instead of building more facilities for the homeless.

Phil Williams' assistant from Channel 5 news has done some investigation into the apartment building because Mr. Keenan receives a lot of federal money on behalf of the residents but spend little, if any on the residents.

Tony Giarratana has looked into buying the building before, and Anne Roberts had also had some involvement when she was head of the historical commission. She wanted Phil Ryan to make 7th to 8th avenue, Broadway to Union Street as redevelopment districts, but it never went before the Metro Council for some reason.

The building used to be a Grand Hotel in the 1940's and 1950's for the Opry Stars. The Keenan Family has done nothing except make money of poor and mentally retarded people wiht no concern for the city of Nashville. Ask the guys at Kone Elevator who worked in the building how many dead bodies they would find in there when old people would die and not be found for days or weeks.

Ask about the old man who was sen masturbating with a doughnut with his bedroom apartment door wide open. Ask about Donnie, the massive fat kid who lives there and his room is filled with rats and cockroaches.

The point being, no one stays there once they get clean and sober. The place needs to be rehabbed or torn down immediately.

[Hankster]

Not sure if that is true Hankster. There are town homes on the North Capital side for $179,000. It could be done in the CBD if some of the developers were not so greedy.

I was referring to the downtown core. Signature Tower would be in the core, while the North Capital side is not. Land values there are no where near as high. If people with moderate incomes want to live in the downtown area and want new housing, they will most certainly have to look into areas like the North Capital side (as long as land values stay moderately low). New housing in the downtown core area will have to pricey.

I, as you, also hope for much more downtown housing in all price ranges. Thank goodness there are still a few areas near the downtown core where more moderately priced residences can be obtained. I hope these areas are developed to their fullest.

[jice]

There are actually a few units currently in the $200-300/sqft range around Church St, and at the Encore.. for 500-800 sq ft

These are obviously nothing like Signature Tower would be.. but seem almost affordable.

Probably slightly skewed by the economy, too.

[satalac]

a friend of mine bought a condo at encore for around $230 sq/ft when it first opened.

[skybolt900]

As much as I like the city, I paid $149,000 for a 2000 square foot house and a 1/4 acre of land that is almost paid for. Even if I could sell the house for $200,000 I could not buy but a shoebox in the city. My house will be paid for when I am 50, or 4 1/2 years from now and then I won't need to work but for groceries and expenses, no mortgage. Can't beat that in the city.

[Plasticman]

I'm sorry the tower won't be quite as tall. I believe it will still have a 2010 groundbreaking and it will be like this...

20 floors hotel

20 floors office

20 floor condos (five per floor)

for a 60 story tower measuring about 850' as the second design suggested. Still startlingly tall for Nashville and a bold iconic tower for the city.

[monsoon]

^I would be very surprised if such a thing were built anywhere in the USA in 2010. There is no money now to build such extravagances and, at best, new real estate construction will be much more pragmatic and built to satisfy a need beyond vanity. Most likely, another generation will pass before we see such speculation in real estate again and hopefully that generation will look back and not repeat the same mistakes that led to the downfall we are seeing now.

[dmillsphoto]

^... that generation will look back and not repeat the same mistakes that led to the downfall we are seeing now.

Mistakes like letting the SEC "overlook" a $50b Ponzi scheme that could very well have led to this mess? I think the Sig was a great topic for discussion over the last four years, but it's time to let it rest. I don't think Tony has an economy to support him anymore, nor will he for a long time to come.

[nashvylle]

monsoon-

how in the world is charlotte's the vue able to get financing at this time? That tower seems to me to be full of flippers

[monsoon]

monsoon-

how in the world is charlotte's the vue able to get financing at this time? That tower seems to me to be full of flippers

Well actually it was proposed over 3 years ago and was almost canceled due to financing issues. They came back with a "value engineered'" tower. It was privately financed before the financial meltdown, but despite that, it is 50% unsold. I suspect the 50% sold won't hold up as those sales took place before Wachovia and BofA let out they are going to be laying off workers in the multiple 10s of thousands. I am watching with interest what is going to happen to this tower because.......

There is another tower next to it that is 28 stories that is 85% unsold and they have essentially stopped work on it. There is talk of maybe conversion to apartments, but the lender Wachovia, yes that broken bank, is not wanting to play that game right now. There is another almost built 28 story tower, The Park, near it that stopped work a year ago and it is deteriorating as there are no windows on it. There is the 50 story 210 Trade that has stopped work. The people who purchased in The Park and 210 Trade are in limbo and in The Park's case have lost their deposits. Both are mired down in multiple lawsuits.

Wachovia has stopped work on the 40+ story condo it started. They never paid the city for the engineering work done on the permits nor picked up their drawings. Their 50 story office tower is essentially being paid for by the US Taxpayer. Even so, Wells Fargo, it is rumored has stopped interior fit up of the space that would have been occupied by Wachovia. Trump's 72 story tower proposal is long gone. The property owner where Trump wanted to build this tower is probably kicking himself daily for not taking trumps offer on the tower instead of holding up for more money.

The list goes on and on. If you want more proof I can go on endlessly about canceled projects of this nature. Projects that died so fast they done even have the money to take down the cranes.

[monsoon]

Oh and you might want to read this post. It is not by me and about a specific development company, but it pretty much sums up this market these days and what led to it in the first place.