Signature Tower

[Jeeper12]

A month ago there were 144 reservations shown out of a total of 435 units, or 33%. Today there are 143 reservations shown out of a total of 398 units, or 36%.

Does anyone see this as a positive or a sign of progress ? I commented a month or so ago that only 20 new reservations (not to be confused with contracts) seemed awful after over 30 days of traffic in the brand new sales center. If the website is still being kept up to date it seems like interest continues to be flat over the last month. And unless my math is off I think that would suggest that after having the sales center open almost 3 months his sales team has generated only 20 new totally refundable reservations.

Also, I thought the process of converting to contracts (which I've contended will likely cause 70-80% of the reservations to evaporate) was to begin a month ago. Does anyone have any news about this because (permits or not) I don't see anything other than a ceremonial groundbreaking in 3 weeks unless he can announce good contract progress and the identity of his equity and lending sources.

[Plasticman]

Does anyone see this as a positive or a sign of progress ? I commented a month or so ago that only 20 new reservations (not to be confused with contracts) seemed awful after over 30 days of traffic in the brand new sales center. If the website is still being kept up to date it seems like interest continues to be flat over the last month. And unless my math is off I think that would suggest that after having the sales center open almost 3 months his sales team has generated only 20 new totally refundable reservations.

Also, I thought the process of converting to contracts (which I've contended will likely cause 70-80% of the reservations to evaporate) was to begin a month ago. Does anyone have any news about this because (permits or not) I don't see anything other than a ceremonial groundbreaking in 3 weeks unless he can announce good contract progress and the identity of his equity and lending sources.

One hanging chad is whether the 144 are actual sales or not. Did he actually convert them all? I know that sounds preposterous but the thing is he or one of his people updated the site yesterday. In that update did they ignore the word "reservation" and it now actually means sales?

The shift in the hotel's favor may mean the hotel investor is providing just enough financing to carry this thing over the edge.

[cheeriokid61]

What do you mean? It still says "reserved." Do you mean that reserved could possibly mean reserved, as in, "this unit is reserved to the person who just bought it"? It has said reserved the whole time.

[Plasticman]

What do you mean? It still says "reserved." Do you mean that reserved could possibly mean reserved, as in, "this unit is reserved to the person who just bought it"? It has said reserved the whole time.

Up until the sales office opened, I believe all a person could do was reserve a unit by placing a % deposit down. Once the sales office opened in May my understanding is that the "reservations" would begin to be converted to actual sales. With all of the changes on the website, the terminology has remained "reservations". It would be nice to know how many are actually sold.

[Hankster]

Or a sign that the developer is starting to recognize that he can't sell as many condos as he thought at those prices.

Contrary to that theory is the fact that the most expensive units are the ones that Tony is having the greatest success in increasing reservations. That would indicate to me that pricing is not that much of an issue.

[Jeeper12]

Contrary to that theory is the fact that the most expensive units are the ones that Tony is having the greatest success in increasing reservations. That would indicate to me that pricing is not that much of an issue.

He may be but that kind of ignores the point that we're still sitting here in June talking about reservations and not contracts. It also ignores the reality that prospective partners and lenders will be just as concerned if he can't demonstrate solid demand at every level of price point not just the larger (eccentric) ones. True, in theory it may help to achieve a % (of loan $'s) sold presale benchmark quicker but, again, if there is a big apparent hole at the low end of his units (those $500k one bedrooms) he will be just as stymied with the money people.

[titanhog]

I know we've beaten this to death, but is there a chance that Tony and his company will NEVER fully tell us what they mean by "reserved"...what percentage is truly "sold"? I mean...for all we know, he could have alot of things settled and people on board as investors in the hotel and and funding for the condo portion without us knowing. Just because this isn't "typical" doesn't mean it's not what's happening.

If he pre-sells most of the upper-floors and the % of $ is high enough, I could see him starting this thing even though he's only sold maybe 40% of the units (including having funding for the hotel, of course). I believe this is a bldg. that once it starts to take shape and the excitement of such a grand tower in Nashville comes to fruition, he'll sell this puppy out in a flash. If I had the money and saw this thing rising 1000' above DT, I'd be itching to have a room with a view.

oh...and by the way...those of you upset that this project is only for the rich...well...what do you expect? Should every building and neighborhood in America provide $130k housing amidst the $1,000,000 housing? I believe most of those in the $130k housing (including me) aspire to move up to the $1,000,000 housing. Let projects like Velocity, Rolling Mill Hill and even the $160k units in Adelecia take care of those wanting to live DT at affordable prices...but also let the upper high end bldgs like Signature Tower exist as well. I personally think it's great to have a hodge-podge of choices in DT.

[Hankster]

oh...and by the way...those of you upset that this project is only for the rich...well...what do you expect? Should every building and neighborhood in America provide $130k housing amidst the $1,000,000 housing? I believe most of those in the $130k housing (including me) aspire to move up to the $1,000,000 housing. Let projects like Velocity, Rolling Mill Hill and even the $160k units in Adelecia take care of those wanting to live DT at affordable prices...but also let the upper high end bldgs like Signature Tower exist as well. I personally think it's great to have a hodge-podge of choices in DT.

I agree with you 100%.

[nashscan]

I agree with you 100%.

Unfortunately, there's some people out there that think if everyone can't afford a 60th floor penthouse view, then no one should be able to. That's the main reason there's a backlash against Siggy.

[jcoop]

Unfortunately, there's some people out there that think if everyone can't afford a 60th floor penthouse view, then no one should be able to. That's the main reason there's a backlash against Siggy.

Actually I think most of the "backlash" is due to the worry that the building will not offer much of anything to the people who can't afford to live there or stay in the hotel...as long as their is good ground level activity that I can enjoy, then I say congratulations to the family in the penthouse above me.

[MTSUBlueraider86]

Dr. Ming Wang is one of the tennants along with Clint Black and other country music stars. Again, these are not people that have any idea what it is like to live in a $150,000 dollar house and make $35,000 a year. Those staying in the Hotel Kimpton are paying $500 per night! I don't think they have ever eaten at O'charleys, been to a bowling center or shopped at Kroger. These are definately not people who are going to be in the "Nashville" community.

I don't want Nashville to become like Buckhead in Atlanta where everything is geared toward the wealthiest of the city. Although this week we are bombarded by people who are poor or lower middle class in the CMA music Fest and some of them can barely afford the hotels, but most Nashvillians cannot afford some of the amenities downtown now. And what about property taxes skyrocketing as these "luxury" residences are built? How are the old working class people in North and East Nashville able to afford to keep their homes when these multi million dollar homes are being built toward the sky?

How is gentrification going to affect and effect the urban core?

[nashscan]

Dr. Ming Wang is one of the tennants along with Clint Black and other country music stars. Again, these are not people that have any idea what it is like to live in a $150,000 dollar house and make $35,000 a year. Those staying in the Hotel Kimpton are paying $500 per night! I don't think they have ever eaten at O'charleys, been to a bowling center or shopped at Kroger. These are definately not people who are going to be in the "Nashville" community.

Ming Wang has helped thousands of people see our beautiful city clearly. How is that not being in the "Nashville" community. Please clarify. (no pun intended)

[Jeeper12]

I know we've beaten this to death, but is there a chance that Tony and his company will NEVER fully tell us what they mean by "reserved"...what percentage is truly "sold"? I mean...for all we know, he could have alot of things settled and people on board as investors in the hotel and and funding for the condo portion without us knowing. Just because this isn't "typical" doesn't mean it's not what's happening.

I'm trying to follow your logic. So you're suggesting Tony is overcoming all these monster hurdles and keeping quiet about it for what reason ? To continue maintaining flat sales while simultaneously reducing his condo count and making the hotel pitch even more difficult than it already has been ? Ok, too sarcastic but there has been significant skepticism about his conversions posted in great detail on UP and we know that some of Tony's team, probably Tony himself, monitor these discussions. Heck, sometimes the UP sentiments even get published as sources by the Nashville journalists covering real estate. Err, well, ok maybe WW is the only reporter that does that. But anyway do you see my point ? If your supposition were true and reservations had all been converted to contracts and hotel lenders and operators were signed up don't you think Tony would seize the opportunity to make some new headlines and rouse the publics interest again ? It is, of course, not proveable but I think the silence out of the Tony camp is deafening.

That said, again, I'd like to understand what rational motivation you think he would have to sit on so much good news. At what point does a theoretical possiblity give way to plausability and logic ?

[cheeriokid61]

Rich people like bowling just as much as poor people. They don't always eat at gourmet restaurants. And they don't have their own grocery stores. They will just as important in the Nashville community as anybody else.

[Plasticman]

Rich people like bowling just as much as poor people. They don't always eat at gourmet restaurants. And they don't have their own grocery stores. They will just as important in the Nashville community as anybody else.

Exactly. Plus more affluency downtown will result in a higher demand for upscale restaurants, activities, and above all JOBS!!! Not only will this project supply construction jobs for many people, it will supply jobs to the factories who produce the materials and furnishings.

[bruceman]

Don't know why, but for some reason the diagram of Signature Tower is no longer on SSP. Anyone know why?

Nevermind, I found it. For some reason it was not there when i typed in Nashville to search all building diagrams but after going back to try again it was there.

[queensguy06]

^While it will supply some demand I highly doubt this one project will make or break any furniture company or textile company. Hell, half of the building materials in this building will probably be made outside of the U.S. I get the feeling that the negativity toward this project is more a reaction to the size and scale of what is being proposed. I can see how people might be opposed to a tower that is solely for the rich that is done so ostentatiously. In a city full of 20 and 30 story buildings this tower will stick out like a sore thumb. I love the design but have always thought it should be around 55 to 60 stories at most. And that is where the price points of this tower come in. People see $500/night hotel rooms and million dollar condos and think, "What a guady tower." I don't necessarily agree with this line of thought, but I can certainly understand why people feel this way.

[titanhog]

Dr. Ming Wang is one of the tennants along with Clint Black and other country music stars. Again, these are not people that have any idea what it is like to live in a $150,000 dollar house and make $35,000 a year. Those staying in the Hotel Kimpton are paying $500 per night! I don't think they have ever eaten at O'charleys, been to a bowling center or shopped at Kroger. These are definately not people who are going to be in the "Nashville" community.

You're joking, right? Do you think Clint Black and Ming Wang were born rich? I bet you both made the rise to wealth through hard work and talent. They both pay taxes (more than you and I, I would imagine) and provide something good to our community. The hotel will pay big taxes to the city, and so will Black and Wang to live here.

I guarantee you most of the really nice places like the Schemerhorn, Frist Arts Museum, Cheekwood, etc are here because of those rich people who are "not in the Nashville community" as you say. They're also the ones who pay a large percentage of the taxes that provide services you and I enjoy.

[titanhog]

I'm trying to follow your logic. So you're suggesting Tony is overcoming all these monster hurdles and keeping quiet about it for what reason ? To continue maintaining flat sales while simultaneously reducing his condo count and making the hotel pitch even more difficult than it already has been ? Ok, too sarcastic but there has been significant skepticism about his conversions posted in great detail on UP and we know that some of Tony's team, probably Tony himself, monitor these discussions. Heck, sometimes the UP sentiments even get published as sources by the Nashville journalists covering real estate. Err, well, ok maybe WW is the only reporter that does that. But anyway do you see my point ? If your supposition were true and reservations had all been converted to contracts and hotel lenders and operators were signed up don't you think Tony would seize the opportunity to make some new headlines and rouse the publics interest again ? It is, of course, not proveable but I think the silence out of the Tony camp is deafening.

That said, again, I'd like to understand what rational motivation you think he would have to sit on so much good news. At what point does a theoretical possiblity give way to plausability and logic ?

You make good points. My "supposition" is actually more of a question to the forumers, including you, asking whether or not Tony could be keeping some things under wrap? It appears that Palmer is moving forward with WES, yet there's still alot we don't know. Do you think the same thing could be happening with Siggy and Tony? You're forementioned reasons why he would not make sense...but could you be wrong?

[chris holman]

Exactly, almost everyone doubted the West End Summit project, But it seems to be happening now. And just because Mr. Palmer didn't keep the media updated on his progress (as slow as it might had been) Does not mean that is not happening.

Its not even July 4 yet! There could also be other private investors in this project, who knows? Where Tony gets his connections from. If he said July 4 groundbreaking I'll just leave it at that and just watch and see what happens.

[monsoon]

Unfortunately, there's some people out there that think if everyone can't afford a 60th floor penthouse view, then no one should be able to. That's the main reason there's a backlash against Siggy.

Why do you continue to throw incorrect insults at the people? There is absolutely no reason for a comment such as this on this board, and I am getting tired of this mentality that anyone, who might question if this developer has viable plans, is somehow being unfair because they are lost in some kind of social dogma.

Furthermore you insult all of us who have posted in this thread with reasonable questions with your high handed dismissal, especially one written in the 3rd person because you can't refer to anything specific. Please go somewhere else if this is all that you can do because I have said time and time again this is not a skyscraper fanboi site or newspaper that refers to people as sourpusses.

Damn

[Plasticman]

^While it will supply some demand I highly doubt this one project will make or break any furniture company or textile company. Hell, half of the building materials in this building will probably be made outside of the U.S. I get the feeling that the negativity toward this project is more a reaction to the size and scale of what is being proposed. I can see how people might be opposed to a tower that is solely for the rich that is done so ostentatiously. In a city full of 20 and 30 story buildings this tower will stick out like a sore thumb. I love the design but have always thought it should be around 55 to 60 stories at most. And that is where the price points of this tower come in. People see $500/night hotel rooms and million dollar condos and think, "What a guady tower." I don't necessarily agree with this line of thought, but I can certainly understand why people feel this way.

Points taken but I disagree with the notion that most building materials are made outside the U.S. The company I work for produces extruded plastic parts for the door and window industry not to mention for the medical and office furniture industry (Yes we have experienced a decline in sales but they are already on the way up again). Being in this industry I can tell you a lot of materials are still made right here in the USA. I will admit I doubt our parts will be in the Signature Tower but a lot of American companies will benefit at least on a limited basis.

I also believe while it will stick out, it won't be noticably worse than some towers in other cities like Charlotte when it first built BOA and now Mobile with RSA. Many cities build towers way taller than any others in their skyline. But in Charlotte's case, BOA was almost 300' taller than any other in the city. While it stood alone for awhile, it has many friends now.

[newguy]

Points taken but I disagree with the notion that most building materials are made outside the U.S. The company I work for produces extruded plastic parts for the door and window industry not to mention for the medical and office furniture industry (Yes we have experienced a decline in sales but they are already on the way up again). Being in this industry I can tell you a lot of materials are still made right here in the USA. I will admit I doubt our parts will be in the Signature Tower but a lot of American companies will benefit at least on a limited basis.

I also believe while it will stick out, it won't be noticably worse than some towers in other cities like Charlotte when it first built BOA and now Mobile with RSA. Many cities build towers way taller than any others in their skyline. But in Charlotte's case, BOA was almost 300' taller than any other in the city. While it stood alone for awhile, it has many friends now.

When the L&C Tower was built, it stood tall all by itself for quite a few years. Now it has more friends than ever, with apparently many more to come.

[Plasticman]

When the L&C Tower was built, it stood tall all by itself for quite a few years. Now it has more friends than ever, with apparently many more to come.

It's all about perspective. I went to the L & C observatory a couple of times when I was about 3 years old (in the late 60s) and there were no other buidings near that tall. I could see a loooooong way with those viewers they had. Now that tower is being dwarfed and almost hidden among big brothers.

[southsideJ]

that updated rendering is in ad in today's City Paper--the crown does sorta look almost like it is made of glass.

Here's the pic from the ad--

versus an older rendering: