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Walmart at Town Center


vdogg

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I also noticed he said Walmart will be the anchor store so I assume there may be other stores as well. Sounds like another strip center to me. :(

Unless Va Beach can control or stop this type of development in and around Town Center, no one will consider it a urban city. We'll get plagued with jokes that we're a suburb with 5 towers in the center.

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What a disaster Walmart would be. The beach is trying to draw high end development and Walmart is what we might get? I'm in favor of Eminent Domain with this bad boy. But on the other side of the coin, maybe these rumors will get potential developers off of there hind ends and get them into action. Remember, without Walmart we wouldn't have the TC.

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think I just vomited a little bit........but in reality I have been waiting for this article, I knew it was a matter of time because Walmart is desperate to put a store there at any cost.

There is still hope to stop it, pressure from the residents and city could easily put a hault to it. Traffic congestion plans could stop it. It isn't built yet and here in Portland, OR we have stopped several Walmarts from happening. So there is some hope, but I am guessing the owner of the site is pretty short sighted and is willing to take all that cash Walmart is willing to feed him.

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vaceltic has the right idea. The City of VB must consider the rezoning of the area from B-3 to MU. By creating an MU zone the only Wal-Mart that would be allowed is one that has condos or offices on the 2nd & 3rd floors! Also requiring a high FAR (i.e. above 1.0) would disallow large surface parking lots and single-story buildings. With Town Center being a large MU area, the city could easily justify extending its bounds to create "conformity" in neighboring areas.

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vaceltic has the right idea. The City of VB must consider the rezoning of the area from B-3 to MU. By creating an MU zone the only Wal-Mart that would be allowed is one that has condos or offices on the 2nd & 3rd floors! Also requiring a high FAR (i.e. above 1.0) would disallow large surface parking lots and single-story buildings. With Town Center being a large MU area, the city could easily justify extending its bounds to create "conformity" in neighboring areas.

The City's comprehensive plan and the current zoning in the West Pemrboke Area call for multi-story mixed-use buildings. Although the zoning code does not prohibit parking lots, the comp plan states that one of the first considerations in approving new development be that it incorporates transit options and that parking be in the form of garages not lots. The City has the tools to fight a big-box. However, if the the developer and/or store meets the demands like transit options, a parking garage, and mixed-use, then the City will be forced to approve. This isn't Portland or California. This is Virginia where business rights prevail. The only way to stop it is to make reasonable demands that make the project no longer profitable.

In addition, I'm not sure that they can zone the land without a fight from the land owner. If he argues that it will devalue his property then he can stop any rezoning. This is different than a developer asking for the property to be rezoned to build something else like with the Pembroke West/City Center high-rise. I believe rezoing will devalue his property since he'd have to wait for mixed-use offers in an alredy saturated market when he has Wal-mart and Lowe's knocking on his door.

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I believe rezoing will devalue his property since he'd have to wait for mixed-use offers in an alredy saturated market when he has Wal-mart and Lowe's knocking on his door.

Who's to say such offers haven't been made already. Mr. Divaris made the point some time ago that one of the difficulties they were facing is the stubborness of surrounding land owners. Perhaps this is one of the land owners he was referring too. It seems that some people in that area are virulently opposed to Pembrokes urbanization almost on principle alone. They throw up road blocks or hang on to property they would have otherwise sold simply because it is not the type of development that they were seeking for that area. FX's owner all but ruling out anything but big box retail was disheartening and leads me to believe that perhaps any negotiations with him will be a non-starter on this issue. The cities only recourse may be to tweek with the zoning laws a little, which is unfortunate, but may be necessary.

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I guess worse case we will have an urban Walmart instead of the FX which is an improvement. It's would be such a shame that some developer with deep pockets couldn't convince the owner to sell to him for a mixed use project but again Walmart has even deeper pockets. :cry:

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Who's to say such offers haven't been made already. Mr. Divaris made the point some time ago that one of the difficulties they were facing is the stubborness of surrounding land owners. Perhaps this is one of the land owners he was referring too. It seems that some people in that area are virulently opposed to Pembrokes urbanization almost on principle alone. They throw up road blocks or hang on to property they would have otherwise sold simply because it is not the type of development that they were seeking for that area. FX's owner all but ruling out anything but big box retail was disheartening and leads me to believe that perhaps any negotiations with him will be a non-starter on this issue. The cities only recourse may be to tweek with the zoning laws a little, which is unfortunate, but may be necessary.

Land owners don't rule out development that is allowed by the zoning code based on principle (unless they're preserving open space). It's all about money. Divaris could have also been referring to Hannaford, Wachovia, the Beacon, or Taco Bell. If Divaris is/was eying the FX property, it would likely be a later stage of City Walk. Sitting empty until development would mean the property would be worth less right now. Landmark is refusing to sell its Beacon building right now because it knows that when TC is built out and other developments at City Walk, POP, TC West and such have occured, that the Beacon building will be worth much more. It's apparent that the FX owner wants to develop/sell his property. If he sells to Divaris, he won't get as much as from Wal-mart because the lot would sit idle. FX wants to cash out now and Wal-mart is the highest bidder. I can understand the NIMBYs upset over the urbanization but not a large commercial land owner.

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The City has the tools to fight a big-box. However, if the the developer and/or store meets the demands like transit options, a parking garage, and mixed-use, then the City will be forced to approve. This isn't Portland or California. This is Virginia where business rights prevail. The only way to stop it is to make reasonable demands that make the project no longer profitable.

In addition, I'm not sure that they can zone the land without a fight from the land owner. If he argues that it will devalue his property then he can stop any rezoning. This is different than a developer asking for the property to be rezoned to build something else like with the Pembroke West/City Center high-rise. I believe rezoing will devalue his property since he'd have to wait for mixed-use offers in an alredy saturated market when he has Wal-mart and Lowe's knocking on his door.

Right, the zoning is the tool. If Wal-Mart or any other potential developer conforms to the existing zoning, there's no cause to stop them from doing so. If the existing zoning requires mixed-use buildings Wal-Mart needs to do that (but they usually don't). If the FAR is above 1.0 Wal-Mart needs to go multi-story (but they usually don't). Those conditions would make the area unattractive to Wal-Mart UNLESS they achieve a zoning variance to allow their non-conforming use.

If the zoning were to be changed, such changes bring out emotional responses from landowners and neighbors. The landowner can fight the rezoning, but in the eyes of the courts if a proposed rezoning is reasonable (conformity with surrounds) and provides the owner with a viable opportunity to use/sell the land, there is no taking.

Even if a rezoning would yield a landowner less money than existing zoning, it doesn't matter. As long as the land CAN be used for SOMETHING viable it is not considered a taking and the owner is not entitled to compensation.

BUT, the zoning here might be enough to keep Wal-Mart out already. Or we may find a very interesting Wal-Mart developed over there.

^I used Wal-Mart as an example. Applies to other big-box too.

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Zoning simply allows certain activities or densities to be realized by property owners. Markets are not created through zoning. If the City were to take the Strategic Growth Area concept much further and do a really solid plan for the overall Pembroke Area, that could help to get local property owners and investors engaged in improving their collective and their individual business prospects. Sure, there would be naysayers and some holdouts, but there could be some big net gains for just about everyone involved. Short of creating a redevelopment authority, which isn't going to happen, I think this might be a good approach to follow. Nothing much may be happening with Pembroke Mall today, but who knows what a little good research and thought might suggest?

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This being "Vah Beach", I am not surprised one bit. When I was in Oakland, CA last fall, there was a new Wal Mart "anchor" that was nothing more than Wal-Mart and a bunch of fast food places in an area by the airport. Total waste of land. The thing that worries me more than the Wal Mart going up is once it is up what will happen? Will they run it into the ground like they do all their other stores (think Norfolk WalMart before the remodel)? Will they vacate the building and leave a hulking shell like they did in Chesapeake Square?

I don't hate WalMart any more than I do KMart, Target, et al. And I see the point of building it there because there is a serious lack of reatil in the Aragona area that it will serve. There is a Kmart but it is small and very run down. The next closest WalMart and Target is either Norfolk or Salem/Lynnhaven. I just wish it would go in somewehere else...

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Granted we know little of what Walmart's plans are going to be. Walmart has been experimenting with "urban" Walmarts. They could easily end up building a fake little urban area around their Walmart, so at least there is hope for that.

Unlike most downtowns, this really won't kill the area or anything. It will just be a crappy part of the downtown.

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This being "Vah Beach", I am not surprised one bit. When I was in Oakland, CA last fall, there was a new Wal Mart "anchor" that was nothing more than Wal-Mart and a bunch of fast food places in an area by the airport. Total waste of land. The thing that worries me more than the Wal Mart going up is once it is up what will happen? Will they run it into the ground like they do all their other stores (think Norfolk WalMart before the remodel)? Will they vacate the building and leave a hulking shell like they did in Chesapeake Square?

I don't hate WalMart any more than I do KMart, Target, et al. And I see the point of building it there because there is a serious lack of reatil in the Aragona area that it will serve. There is a Kmart but it is small and very run down. The next closest WalMart and Target is either Norfolk or Salem/Lynnhaven. I just wish it would go in somewehere else...

There's a market all right, especially with all the new, dense apartments at Brenneman Farm and the low to mid income housing along the Independence and Holland Rd. corridors. It's a little like that Hegenberger Rd. 98th Ave. area of Oakland, but much newer.

Should the big boxes become emty hulks, which they usually seem to do, it's no great loss to tear them down and replace them. Anything like that in the Pembroke area is just a placeholder. In the mean time, we need a long-term plan and a strategy for that area. And I don't mean the existing Comprehensive Plan.

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Should the big boxes become emty hulks, which they usually seem to do, it's no great loss to tear them down and replace them. Anything like that in the Pembroke area is just a placeholder. In the mean time, we need a long-term plan and a strategy for that area. And I don't mean the existing Comprehensive Plan.

The City did a Master Plan for the Pembroke CBD back in 1991. The Comp Plan was a mid-term update to it. There should be another Master Plan done in 2011 which would fit in well with the current development schedules (City View, TC, Pembroke Mall, TC West, City Walk, etc.). It would be for the next phase of redeveloping the Pembroke CBD.

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The City did a Master Plan for the Pembroke CBD back in 1991. The Comp Plan was a mid-term update to it. There should be another Master Plan done in 2011 which would fit in well with the current development schedules (City View, TC, Pembroke Mall, TC West, City Walk, etc.). It would be for the next phase of redeveloping the Pembroke CBD.

You would be correct and I have portions of the original master plan posted in this thread.

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Wow, scary. Perhaps they could put $500K studio condos on top of the Walmart? That would be great.

To be honest, I really wish there was a Walmart in downtown Norfolk. Downtown Norfolk lacks places to shop for groceries and such. I went to Farm Fresh once, but the price difference was insane. And the Farm Fresh didn't have enough on the shelves. I was worried that the food I was buying was out of date, due to lack of product movement on the store shelves.

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Couldnt people that live around Pembroke and Town Center and rally against Walmart? The people that live in the Harpersville area in NN rallied against Walmart last summer and won.. David can beat Goliath

This is privately owned land and I would think it would be quite difficult as it is up to the owner. It is the planning dept who is the one who holds the power to grant or not to grant permission.

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This is privately owned land and I would think it would be quite difficult as it is up to the owner. It is the planning dept who is the one who holds the power to grant or not to grant permission.

Exactly. The people protest, hopefully the planning dept listens. Considering that the current zoning can be used by both sides, it comes down to who has more sway. I would bet that mixed-use that brings high-paying office jobs and single/empty-nest affulent households is more beneficial tax-wise to the city than Wal-mart even if that store siphons off sales and hence tax money from the JANAF Wal-mart and Target. And Target is most likely coming to Pembroke Mall. I predict that unless Wal-mart is part of a high-rise mixed-use development, it will be shot down.

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I know that I'd be writing editorials to the paper painting Wal-Mart in a negative light. I'd also be demanding that our city planners do something to prevent this from ever happening. If they(City/private ownership) allow for this monster box store to come that close to Town Center then they can kiss this mega million dollar investment down the drain. Our city deserves a worldclass urban core and not five blocks of nice urban climes flanked by a low brow Wal-Mart and its four walls and a door design surrounded by a waste of space parking lot.

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Once again here is the link to the planning dept. I intend on writing an email tonight after I get home. I think the time is now BEFORE this gets built. There is only so much land left in the Pembroke area and it would be such a shame if Walmart were to come here. I could think of plenty of other uses that would benefit the city's residents.

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Here is my email to the planning dept:

On March 29th, WTKR ran a story about the possibility of Walmart coming to Pembroke at the old FX site. As a resident of the city and of the Pembroke area I was dismayed to even learn of the possibility of a Walmart coming here. It is not so much that I am against Walmart building per se but more of the idea that land is in short supply around the Town Center and I find it disturbing that such a large tract of land could be more beneficial as a Walmart. I am sure you will recall Walmart wanted to build a store instead of the Town Center being built. Realizing that the FX property is privately owned, I also realize it is at the owner's disposal to sell to whomever they see fit. But I also realize the powers that the planning committee holds and also that the city has a much broader vision for the Town Center area. So many wonderful urban areas are being created, a synergy unknown before in this area. And the amount of interest in this area is tremendous. So many other wonderful projects are in the works including City View, City Walk and Town Center West, to name a few. For once Va Beach residents can have an area that they can call their own, that has a sense of place and meaning. As I understand it the area in question is now zoned as mixed use so why not endorse other mixed uses to be built here. One idea I had is a small farmer's market. I think it would be great to have an area with shops (perhaps a bakery with bread and cakes) and a small farmer's market with fresh produce. An array of shops and perhaps housing on the top where people can live and play and even possibly work in the same location. Once this large parcel is developed it will invariably stay that way for many years to come so l am hoping the city will take a serious and long look at ways of redeveloping for everyone to enjoy. Thank you for your time and consideration.

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