Alston Center in NW Cary

[orulz]

From the looks of the map it seems that already the design of the interchange is inadequate. 55-S to 540-E and 55-N to 540-W both require left turns, since this is half a cloverleaf. They'll just have to pay gazillions of tax dollars in the future to fix it after it becomes a disaster at buildout, just like at Crossroads.

I disagree. A full cloverleaf would require either a weave (which is frowned upon these days) or C/D lanes. Partial cloverleafs can handle lots of traffic - probably more than a standard full cloverleaf (weave design.) There are two prominent local examples: from the Inner Beltline onto westbound Wade and Glenwood. Both require left turns, but both intersections function adequately with some pretty high traffic volume. At Wade Avenue they clearly graded for a cloverleaf, and they left enough room for one at Glenwood as well, but the ramps were never completed. The reason? The loop and weave probably wouldn't safely handle all that traffic

[Creasy336]

Isn't the new Triangle Pkwy slated to start construction towards the end of the year? I believe the worst traffic gets on NC 55 the more people will be willing to use the toll road. I took NC 55 last week from apex around 5 PM and the traffic was as bad as ever.

[Creasy336]

From the looks of the map it seems that already the design of the interchange is inadequate. 55-S to 540-E and 55-N to 540-W both require left turns, since this is half a cloverleaf. They'll just have to pay gazillions of tax dollars in the future to fix it after it becomes a disaster at buildout, just like at Crossroads.

Meanwhile, transitman, any hope of rail transit on that CSX line in our lifetimes? NS seems much more amenable to working with passenger initiatives lately, but CSX still seems unwilling...

That shopping center would be a great destination stop. Since people complain the trains don't go anywhere....

On another note, This shopping center will push growth in this section of the county even more. Seems like Cary is headed for Chatham County IMHO.

[pack-man]

I wonder if they would consider an extension from the proposed TTA line by NC 54 over to that CSX line. That would justify some stuff for TTA.

[blburton]

Yes, but even if the Triangle Parkway is completed, but 540 down to Holly Springs isn't, you will still have the same RTP to Cary/Apex mob of traffic from this interchange down to Apex like usual. The current proposal is for the Triangle Parkway to begin at I-540 on the southern end, then follow right into the Durham Freeway. Thus from Apex or W. Cary, you would have to to get on 55 to get on 540 before traveling on the new road.... unless they decide to extend the southern terminus to Morrisville (McCrimmon Parkway?). In that case, there would be some relief. Traffic north of the interchange would be too bad during rush hours since there's nothing much out there yet.

Development IMO is a great idea!!!... but it could have a better location?

Isn't the new Triangle Pkwy slated to start construction towards the end of the year? I believe the worst traffic gets on NC 55 the more people will be willing to use the toll road. I took NC 55 last week from apex around 5 PM and the traffic was as bad as ever.

[ChiefJoJo]

There are two prominent local examples: from the Inner Beltline onto westbound Wade and Glenwood. Both require left turns, but both intersections function adequately with some pretty high traffic volume. At Wade Avenue they clearly graded for a cloverleaf, and they left enough room for one at Glenwood as well, but the ramps were never completed. The reason? The loop and weave probably wouldn't safely handle all that traffic

Both Wade and Glenwood used to be full clovers, but were retrofitted in the 1990s (I think) to add left turns to eliminate heavy weave problems as you said. Before everyone starts bashing poor planning, the Beltline was built in the 1960s, 40+ years ago.

Another interchange option is the SPUI, or Single Point Urban Interchange (such as @ I-40/Fayetteville Rd & I-540/Six Forks). This works well with heavy opposing left turn movments. THe major drawback is cost due to the more complex, heaftier bridge design.

[ncwebguy]

RE: SPUI and a lot of bridge... It doesn't *have* to be that way. The first interchange of its type, in Clearwater, FL (I've been through it) occurs *under* the major road. I think this could be accomplished here, before anything is built. 540 could bridge over 55 (it is already bridging over the rail line and neighborhood connector) and let the left turns happen underneath. Traffic coming to and from 540 would still be handled by ramps.

In reguard to the eastbound Wade Ave. weave, things are bad around rush hour, with vehicles going onto 440 backing up and blocking vehicles exiting 440 to east wade. Arena traffic would be a lot worse with the areana now there if the full clover leaf was still in place.

[willrusso]

Thousands of homes and condos are planned near the intersection of I-540 and NC 55. This development will be called Alston Activity Center and will include more than 4 million square feet of retail space. According to the article, that's more than what's currently at crossroads. 20,000 - 40,000 new residents are expected to occupy the 8000 acre area. It seems like the Triangle is on the verge of another even bigger population boom. I wonder if all the new road construction can keep up.

This article was featured on WRAL.com and can be viewed below:

http://www.wral.com/news/8624020/detail.html

[avery]

The roads probably won't keep up. Just another reason why it is so important to start thinking about a better mass transit system here in the Triangle. I realized that this development was huge, but was not anticipating another 20K-40K of people. Who knows what this number will swell to once additional development occurs in and around this area and along I-540. Cary may soon take Durham's spot as the next most populus city in the Triangle within the next few decades. Apex looks like the next boom town...

[JDC]

Cary may soon take Durham's spot as the next most populus city in the Triangle within the next few decades.

It might, but it'll still suck.

[avery]

It might, but it'll still suck.

[blburton]

There was a posting on this development that has links to some of the renderings. I think the last message was March 30 so you can see what is planned. Widening 55 will do nothing except make traffic worse since about 4 traffic lights are planned to be added to Hwy. 55 as a result of this development. If the toll road is built and ended in Morrisville or Cary instead of at I-540, that would help relieve some Hwy. 55 traffic. 55 from I-540 to US 1 in Apex will likely be a mess unless I-540 to Holly Springs is completed before the development is. Its crazy thinking of Cary as potentially being in NC's top 5 soon. They still call themselves a "town" but I guess the title works because Cary is mainly is subdivisions, strip malls/shopping centers, and parks with a small town dowtown. If the road infrastructure were there or planned, I would feel much better about the development.

[orulz]

That's the thing, though. The roads are being built in advance to support this sprawl. I live out here (close to where I work - that's my excuse) and the amount of construction going on is just phenomenal.

Take a look at the construction happening right now on NC55, Davis Drive, I-540, Morrisville Parkway, South Loop Road, Green Level to Durham Road, Town Hall Drive, Petty Farm Road, Louis Stephens Drive, High House. And then take a look at the planned improvements and extensions to South Loop / O'Kelly Chapel Road, McCrimmon Parkway, Kit Creek.... the list goes on and on, most of these roads are going to be four-lane from the outset, and it's all going to be done by 2008. They're building a road network to support tens of thousands of car-driving commuters.

It's neat to see them connecting all the roads together into a logical grid... but it's also depressing to think about the sprawl... all the clearcutting that's going to happen way out here when they start buildng the McMansions and starter homes, when there's still so much room for development near downtown.

They say there's going to be an "urban center" and a "second downtown" near I-540 and NC55, but I say "bull****" - no developer's going to propose something urban and expensive to build when they can make so much money on a cheaply built big box farm. At best we'll see something like Brier Creek at the intersection; at worst, something like Crossroads.

[avery]

^^^Agreed. I don't forsee any urban development out there. It will be another Brier Creek and/or Wakefied Plantation. Man, wouldn't the TTA be nice now with a spur line running from RTP, Morrisville, Apex and Holly Springs. Tehn, I could forsee more urban type developments, but now there is no incentive.

[orulz]

Widening 55 will do nothing except make traffic worse since about 4 traffic lights are planned to be added to Hwy. 55 as a result of this development.

The thing is, there will be a whole bunch of other parallel, continuous north-south roads in the area to share the load. Davis Drive will be widened. Louis Stephens Drive will be built from scratch, and will be two to four lanes, tying into ie Alston Avenue at NC54 and Jenks Carpenter at High House. Green Level to Durham road will connect a bunch of existing farm-to-market roads and turn them into a four-to-six lane thoroughfare, from NC54 all the way to US64 and beyond. It's all under construction right now - there will be about 8 times the north/south traffic carrying capacity heading into West Cary by 2008, and that's not even counting I-540...

[Transplant]

They say there's going to be an "urban center" and a "second downtown" near I-540 and NC55, but I say "bull****" - no developer's going to propose something urban and expensive to build when they can make so much money on a cheaply built big box farm. At best we'll see something like Brier Creek at the intersection; at worst, something like Crossroads.

Exactly.

If Cary wants an urban center, the City of Cary better buy the property and build the roads themselves. This entire area is bound to be another Cluster Buck. I already hate going to Cary, this isn't helping.

[sax184]

That's the thing, though. The roads are being built in advance to support this sprawl. I live out here (close to where I work - that's my excuse) and the amount of construction going on is just phenomenal.

Take a look at the construction happening right now on NC55, Davis Drive, I-540, Morrisville Parkway, South Loop Road, Green Level to Durham Road, Town Hall Drive, Petty Farm Road, Louis Stephens Drive, High House. And then take a look at the planned improvements and extensions to South Loop / O'Kelly Chapel Road, McCrimmon Parkway, Kit Creek.... the list goes on and on, most of these roads are going to be four-lane from the outset, and it's all going to be done by 2008. They're building a road network to support tens of thousands of car-driving commuters.

It's neat to see them connecting all the roads together into a logical grid... but it's also depressing to think about the sprawl... all the clearcutting that's going to happen way out here when they start buildng the McMansions and starter homes, when there's still so much room for development near downtown.

They say there's going to be an "urban center" and a "second downtown" near I-540 and NC55, but I say "bull****" - no developer's going to propose something urban and expensive to build when they can make so much money on a cheaply built big box farm. At best we'll see something like Brier Creek at the intersection; at worst, something like Crossroads.

orulz- I have to disagree. The four-laning of arterials will not solve the traffic crunch. It may postpone gridlock for a little longer, but the lack of a true connected street grid (hooking up a few connector roads won't cut it) is a recipe for standstill operation sooner rather than later.

I attended the charette for the 540/55 area. What a disappointment. They have NC 55 being 55 mph through the middle of the development. Umm, how are the pedestrians going to move around? The saddest part about the charette was that they used a common charette technique of trying to ground the new development in the development styles of existing stuff in Cary. What existing stuff did they use? Strip malls like Crossroads, and ersatz urbanism like Southpoint.

[pdxheel]

This development is exactly what sprawl is. As much as we might like to think that there is an emphasis on developing our existing urban cores...the Triangle region is the definition of sprawl and I don't see much slowing it down.

[JDC]

Here in 2006, you really can't develop land that was previously a forest and call it an urban center. There are plenty of already existing urban centers that could benefit from development.

I wouldn't go as far as pdxheel and say the Triangle is THE definition of sprawl, but there are certainly some places that reflect it. Cary, southwest Durham and North Raleigh come to mind.

[pdxheel]

The Triangle is less dense than most comparable (population) regions in the US. I think we should face the fact that the Triangle is not very dense and is highly sprawled. This doesn't mean we have to like it, but it is reality. Until the preoccupation with cars subsides and the region focuses on public transportation and pedestrian access it will continue to sprawl.

Here in 2006, you really can't develop land that was previously a forest and call it an urban center. There are plenty of already existing urban centers that could benefit from development.

I wouldn't go as far as pdxheel and say the Triangle is THE definition of sprawl, but there are certainly some places that reflect it. Cary, southwest Durham and North Raleigh come to mind.

[Eastwestrob]

Please note that the article did say phase 1 will brings 900 homes and 3000 condos's. That is a much denser area than if 3900 homes were built. That is not a bad ratio in my book

[Creasy336]

All I can say is this development only adds to what I already believe. Cary is on its way to Chatham county. Once Cary is in Chatham you'll see Cary's sprawl on steroids. I hope the Triangle can get the ball rolling on this mass transit system. That spur to Apex and Holly Springs is becoming feasible very fast.

[ChiefJoJo]

I like this quote from the article:

[rooster8]

It's really a joke that they're calling this a "second downtown." Has anyone been to downtown Cary? I know the few shopowners there try, but there's just not a lot going on there.

[RiverwoodCLT]

The same thing happen in Charlotte with South part of I485.

The state planned a road for what was there, and before they could get it built, it was obsolete because of development around I485. The city wanted more lanes but the state said they were not needed due to 10 year old traffic survey

I540 in Cary will be the same way, it will be jam with traffic and they will be crying for more lanes and blaming the state for not planning for all the new growth. From what I can see, I540 in that area is under construction.