How should we pay for growth?

[RaleighRob]

^ Yeah, and it didn't take long for signs to start popping up everywhere that are against this!

[sax184]

^ Yeah, and it didn't take long for signs to start popping up everywhere that are against this!

[ChiefJoJo]

And here's the WRAL story on the Realtors's website and ad . I'm glad that at least it's in the news and being discussed. As the reporter said, someone has to pay, and commercial and residential real estate are the primary stressors of our infrastructure, so they should pay. At the very least, we can let the citizens decide what they want.

[JDC]

Yup, NC Realtors and other portions of the Homebuilder Profit Protection team are out in force. Their website is http://www.itsabadidea.org/

Just for fun, I went through every public page on the site, because they made it unable to be searched by google. Two words do not occur even once: "roads" and "schools."

Their "facts" do not say what the taxes might be used for. Of course, they don't tell anyone because as long as they are fighting the general tax boogeyman and not the actual policy proposals that would explain what the taxes might be used for, they're afraid they will lose on the merits of the debate.

I disagree with them 150%, but they certainly make terrific, manipulative propaganda.

[ncwebguy]

itsabadidea.org is being run by someone out of Penn....

Tech ID:SPAG-35680709

Tech Name:Oneandone Private Registration

Tech Organization:1&1 Internet, Inc. - http://1and1.com/contact

Tech Street1:701 Lee Road, Suite 300

Tech Street2:ATTN: itsabadidea.org

Tech Street3:

Tech City:Chesterbrook

Tech State/Province:PA

Tech Postal Code:19087

Tech Country:US

Tech Phone:+1.8772064254

Tech Phone Ext.:

Tech FAX:

Tech FAX Ext.:

Tech Email:[email protected]

Just for fun, I checked out "itsagoodidea.org", and someone beat me to it

Registrant Email:[email protected]

Admin ID:GODA-228918439

Admin Name:clay schossow

Admin Organization:new media campaigns

Admin Street1:2 davis dr

Admin Street2:po box 13169

Admin Street3:

Admin City:research triangle park

Admin State/Province:North Carolina

Admin Postal Code:27709

Admin Country:US

Admin Phone:+1.9194854118

[ChiefJoJo]

I received an email from WakeUp! mentioning the homebuilder's "home tax" attack ads and I've started seeing them on TV. According to WakeUp!, the real estate transfer fee is gaining some ground in the General Assembly. (I have no idea what the basis for this is.)

[Jones_]

I received an email from WakeUp! mentioning the homebuilder's "home tax" attack ads and I've started seeing them on TV. According to WakeUp!, the real estate transfer fee is gaining some ground in the General Assembly. (I have no idea what the basis for this is.)

[ChiefJoJo]

Orange County became the next to request a local options funding bill from the GA, and specifically a 1% real estate transfer fee.

Let's hope all of this gets somewhere soon.

[ChiefJoJo]

I guess their really is some momentum going forward on growth funding because the noise on real estate transfer fees is picking up. This latest from the NC Realtors:

Counties should raise property taxes or trim excess spending rather than levy a 1 percent tax on sales of homes and commercial properties to pay for roads and schools...

They truly have no idea how bad the problem is and will be in the future. It's definitely not something that can be solved by trimming waste, and citizens already pay too much in property taxes as it is--a billion-dollar type problem and not a quick fix. The realtors never discuss that there will be zero fees if you don't choose to sell you home. Maybe because they don't want you to sit on your property. Also, large land transactions and commercial real estate deals will be hit much harder than average citizens selling a $200k home. If something isn't done soon, people will stop moving here and they won't be selling any more homes.

[sax184]

Realtors seem to becoming increasingly irrelevant in the big scheme of things, and the fight against the transfer is purely an effort to protect their profits, not anyone's "dream."

I bought my place through a FSBO seller and we both hired lawyers. After all the standard fees, the lawyer's time and documentation preparation probably cost $600-700. No percentage of the home from the seller or my wallet to a realtor.

A neighbor four doors down just sold his place on craigslist the same way. Seriously, in the age of the internet, do most people REALLY need a realtor? I'm not sure.

[ncwebguy]

Last night I went with my fiancee through a neighborhood in Raleigh east of the beltline. All the houses seemd the same, with most having cars parked in the driveway in front of garages turned into attached storage to store unneeded "stuff." The subdivsion had side roads that all ended in metal barricade dead ends. The next subdivision over did not want to (or had to?) connect, so built a house in the space where interconnectivity could have happened. This increases the time first responders require to answer calls, and put a lot more traffic on the wider artery street that connected to the next connector. Who wants to live on that? Only people who have to.

This is the "growth" Big Development has delivered. The subdivision (not a neighborhood in any sense of the word) might be ten years old but is already starting to show signs of decay. The increase in the tax base has been more than offset by the cost of the services (police, fire, school, etc.) provided.

Real estate agents have a purpose like any other agent. They can help people moving to the area find available property for sale in a certain area without having to search craigslist, want ads, other realtor listings, etc. They can show properties to potential buyers while the seller is working, already moved, out of town, etc.

They should *not* be lobbying for more roads to be built further out to turn thousands of greenfield acres into unconnected subdivisions. Their idea of "cutting wasteful spending" has shown its ugly head in passing road bonds that don't improve the city's oldest, established neighborhoods. Fayetville Street and Hillsborough Street's revamp fights are other glaring examples. Real Estate tries to portray them as "wasteful spending" even as they increase the tax base and pay for themselves many times over with jobs created. When property is held, the development lobby loses. I hope voters can recognize this instead of leaving their pocketbooks and wallets raided to pad devlopers and realtor's salaries and bonuses.

[Jones_]

I guess their really is some momentum going forward on growth funding because the noise on real estate transfer fees is picking up. This latest from the NC Realtors:

Counties should raise property taxes or trim excess spending rather than levy a 1 percent tax on sales of homes and commercial properties to pay for roads and schools...

They truly have no idea how bad the problem is and will be in the future. It's definitely not something that can be solved by trimming waste, and citizens already pay too much in property taxes as it is--a billion-dollar type problem and not a quick fix. The realtors never discuss that there will be zero fees if you don't choose to sell you home. Maybe because they don't want you to sit on your property. Also, large land transactions and commercial real estate deals will be hit much harder than average citizens selling a $200k home. If something isn't done soon, people will stop moving here and they won't be selling any more homes.

[ChiefJoJo]

A couple of items of interest:

Chapel Hill, Carboro, and Chatham Co consider a development moratorium for high growth areas in order to get the zoning right. This is the sort of thing that would NEVER happen in Wake County...

All three governments have zoning in the areas of concern: northern Chapel Hill, northern Carrboro and northeastern Chatham. But they're not happy with the zoning they've got.

The Chapel Hill Town Council wants denser, more pedestrian- and mass transit-oriented development along N.C. 86, a main entrance to town. Wide traffic lanes and thousands of single-family homes now dominate that area.

The Carrboro Board of Aldermen wants more density to keep single-family subdivisions from sprawling over a fast-developing area of forests and farmland. It also wants more commercial development to help balance the tax base and keep people from always having to drive to get what they need.

Chatham County has more immediate reasons for a moratorium: 15,000 new homes coming near Pittsboro and Chapel Hill, and questions still looming about how to meet the new residents' water and sewer needs. The county commissioners also want more commercial development in what has become a bedroom community for Chapel Hill and Research Triangle Park.

Also, I got an email from WakeUp... they've responded to the Realtors ad with this video:

[ChiefJoJo]

FYI:

Please Join Us !

WakeUP Wake County Membership Meeting on

"Growth Issues & Fair Growth Funding Solutions for Wake County"

Tuesday, May 8th, 6:30 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.

Cameron Village Regional Library - 2nd floor

WakeUP Wake County invites our membership and the public to join us on Tuesday evening, May 8th for an educational membership meeting. The hot topic of discussion will be "Growth Issues & Fair Growth Funding Solutions for Wake County." A panel of special guests will join us to present their views on Wake's growth challenges and potential legislative solutions for our county and others. Our guests will include,

[tjoad]

Have any of you seen the N&O home page? It has a big NC Realtors sponsored ad arguing against the "NC Home Tax". They obviously refer to the land transfer taxes and impact fees, which are picking up steam. "Taxing the equity of your home is like taxing the American Dream!". What a load of bs. What's real un-American is developers making fat margins at the expense of taxpayers, who pay the lion's share of growth.

Anyway, hope to see you all at the WakeUp! meeting.

[sax184]

Today there is more news on the exercise in problem avoidance that is planning for the Wake County school system. Yesterday, Judge Howard Manning ruled that Wake County does not have the authority to implement mandatory year-round schools.

Superior Court Judge Howard Manning Jr. ruled that the Wake school system can't require students to attend year-round schools; 22 were scheduled to convert to the calendar this summer to ease crowding.

His broad ruling doesn't affect just the 20,717 students at those schools. It touches thousands of other students assigned to existing year-round and modified-calendar schools as well as many students at traditional-calendar schools who were part of the district's latest reassignment plan.

The ruling is a major blow to the county's efforts to keep up with population growth. As one of the state's fastest growing systems, Wake annually reassigns thousands of students to fill new schools, ease crowding and promote socioeconomic diversity. The year-round conversions form a major part of the reassignment plan because they allow the county to handle more new students without building as many schools.

If the district can't use mandatory year-round schools, it might resort to split shifts at some elementary schools. Some students would attend class in the morning and others in the evening.

[ChiefJoJo]

^ Amen brother!

[ncwebguy]

On top of that, a lot of the pitchfork carriers say things like "Look at the bus scandal! They took a few sips out of one of those three bottles we gave you, so obviously you can't make do with those bottles and we shouldn't give you any more! It doesn't matter that the majority voted this board in; We want what is best for us, even though that isn't what is best for everyone. But we CARE!"

I posted to the N&O's blog about how this all started when the 1998/99 bond referendum was defeated and Wake County schools have been playing catch up ever since. Now some Wake County Commissioners don't want the school board to appeal the decision. I worked with Michael Biesecker in college, and think he has become a good reporter, but only talking to Tony Guryley and Joe Bryan seems kinda one sided. They are now saying "if the schools needed more money, they should have asked for it! But if they asked for any more, they would not have won." That's *exactly* why the bond was proposed as it was! How do these people get elected???

Last night, I went to a research study to find out how to best sell the "home tax" (increase deed stamp tax, give the option of a transfer tax to counties, and upping the highway use tax for automobiles) to the legislature and/or general public.

There seemed to be a lot of "I don't think toll roads are fair" but the idea of having transaction and transfer taxes being able to keep property taxes down was appealilng to just about everyone. It was understood that it was not a true impact fee, but a lot of the tax would be absorbed by the people moving in and creating the impact. They also mentioned how the six eastern NC counties that have it in place now predicted gloom and doom but are currently flourshing.

I hope this gets out of the "focus group" stage and into the public concensus soon. It won't take long for the development community to convince people that the average person will be hit hard by this and get nothing in return. When in reality, development has not paid its own way and has done everything it can to stop city and county governments from even talking about the issue.

[ChiefJoJo]

Reminder...

Please Join Us !

WakeUP Wake County Membership Meeting on

"Growth Issues & Fair Growth Funding Solutions for Wake County"

Tuesday, May 8th, 6:30 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.

Cameron Village Regional Library - 2nd floor

WakeUP Wake County invites our membership and the public to join us on Tuesday evening, May 8th for an educational membership meeting. The hot topic of discussion will be "Growth Issues & Fair Growth Funding Solutions for Wake County." A panel of special guests will join us to present their views on Wake's growth challenges and potential legislative solutions for our county and others. Our guests will include,

[sax184]

There's a sarcastic but terrific letter in today's N&O that I think sums up the schools growth mess to a tee:

An excerpt:

It has been my dream since we moved here four years ago that my children could some day attend school in a trailer. Or better yet, that my 5-year-old could be one of the lucky ones to attend school until 7 p.m. I'm sure she will learn a lot. Sure, I won't get to see her at all, but I'm sure some one else will raise her well. The important thing is that by staying on a regular school schedule, we can enjoy overcrowding as a community.

[ChiefJoJo]

Update from the meeting:

Very well attended... standing room only. In addition to the scheduled speakers, Tony Gurley from the Wake Co Commissioners, Thomas Crowder of the City Council were present, and a member of the Guilford delegation even stopped in.

A few points:

• Interestingly, Rep. Weiss said the Homebuilders "Home Tax" ads went too far, and it really pissed off some legislators, and actually may have helped the fair growth funding cause.

• Weiss: This is the furthest growth funding issues have gone in the GA, but many bills still do not have the backing to pass... Gov Easley says no to sales tax increases.

• Russ Stephenson pointed out that the problem is not only with funding, but with how we grow... wants to grow more efficiently and more compact (cheaper to build and maintain!)

• Crowder pointed out how much DTR growth is paying off for the rest of the city... also that in NOVA, ~20% of the tax base is in TODs... [Chief's comment: focused growth does not subsidize transit in the negative sense--it provides a real benefit to the entire community's tax base via dense development patterns and represents not only smart growth but sound fiscal policy.]

• Cowell said the funding legislation is very complex... if the state has a cash shortfall, it increases the pressure to do something with local options... there could be a statewide real estate transfer fee (it would hurt Wake--money would be redistributed).

• It was clear to me that the most at the meeting felt that the Wake Commissioners should endorse Sen. Cowell and Rep. Weiss' transfer fee funding bills as the Raleigh City Council did. The Commissioners have likely held back because they have only backed ALL three local options, including sales taxes, impact fees, and transfer fees. The assumption is a lack of a major local endorsement of these bills hurts their progress in the legislature and implies the Commissioners really only support sales taxes (which, as I said above, the Governor opposes).

• Stephenson and Crowder are out front on this, and are/will face major opposition from the real estate lobby this fall. If you favor smart growth, better fiscal policy thru planning, and better funding choices, you should think about supporting these two.

[Spatula]

I don't know why a lot of people don't like Crowder. So the guy votes no. At least he can sit in a room with a bunch of development lobbyists without caving in and letting them walk all over Raleigh's growth policy. That's not easy. You get a lot of bad PR for it, and that's what he's getting. Vote no on any inefficient, sprawly development, and you're a NIMBY.

"No, we will not build a single elevator until every acre of land has been thoroughly tarmacked! What? Not efficient use of space you say? NIMBY!"

[RaleighRob]

Saw on WRAL this morning that the Wake School Board will consider a resolution asking the County Commissioners and all the town councils in Wake to start doing more reign-in the rampant growth.

Don't know how much good it'll do, but I think the public really need to start realizing that the school board is stuck with this overcrowding problem and frankly are doing the best they can. No power to tax, no power to restrict growth...yet the problem is thrown in their laps to deal with and they become the brunt of everyone's frustrations.

[ChiefJoJo]

I think the public really need to start realizing that the school board is stuck with this overcrowding problem and frankly are doing the best they can. No power to tax, no power to restrict growth...yet the problem is thrown in their laps to deal with and they become the brunt of everyone's frustrations.

[ncwebguy]

Thanks for the report! I hate that I missed it, but I am glad to not take up oxygen at a standing room only event.

The funny thing is that there are regional boards -- CAMPO, Triangle J, etc. but they have no *power* to get anything done. So we get a lot of "it would be nice" for things like regional rail/controlled school growth/etc., but no plan to actually get them done.

The old fiefdoms made sense when there was more space between Raleigh, Cary, Durham, Chapel Hill, Clayton, etc., but now that space is gone. The ones that took it from us (developers) are now feeling the heat to pay up, but are now in "don't tax us" mode.

It is good to hear Rep. Weiss's comments that the "Stop the Home tax" went too far and may energize some more people in the GA. I hope the Triangle can set an example of working together instead of the current "herding cats" problem we have now.