Charlotte Rated #98 in Best Cities to live?

[krazeeboi]

Your forgot about CPCC, Johnson & Wales, and JC Smith right in the downtown area. And there are more college students in Charlotte than in Columbia. They are not as noticible here as Columbia because Charlotte is a much larger place and there is a lot more going on.

I'd say they aren't as noticeable due to lack of a significant downtown university. I think Austin is a great example in this regard--a city about the same size as Charlotte with a large downtown university AND with just as much going on (if not more) as Charlotte. Location is everything. Columbia's colleges and universities are either downtown or in inner-ring suburbs, and they aren't "suitcase colleges" for the most part; Charlotte's largest university is practically in Greensboro, amidst sprawl galore.

And Teshadoh, I'd say that every city has a "crutch," whether it be college students or corporate employees or whatever. Every city has to use what it has available to it. Had UNCC been located in downtown Charlotte, the city would have capitalized tremendously on that asset, using it as a "crutch"--and would have been happy to do so.

At any rate, each city is what it is. Obviously Columbia has something going for it to be able to rank #50 in the list in question. But this is only one ranking. I've seen Charlotte rank high on others, so it really isn't any big deal; can't win 'em all.

[spectacle21]

Wow...I didn't think people took these nonsensically "Top 100" lists seriously. Who cares about what some stupid statistical analysts come out with every year. I say...be proud of your city for whatever it offers!

[krazeeboi]

And that is probably the conclusion of the matter.

[monsoon]

I'd say they aren't as noticeable due to lack of a significant downtown university. I think Austin is a great example in this regard--a city about the same size as Charlotte with a large downtown university AND with just as much going on (if not more) as Charlotte. ....

Johnson & Wales IS a downtown University, with a campus and domitories. What I find interesting about Austin, unlike Charlotte, is they are not doing anything about mass transit beyond stuff that rides on the roads with cars. Charlotte already has a Trolley and is building light and commuter rail. This is pretty progressive for a city this size if you ask me.

[Durhamite]

I was in Indianapolis for couple of days last week. Very impressive with a variety of retail, bars and entertainment venues downtown. I ventured down the canal walk with museums, etc. Indianapolis is not known for having a "bigtime" college in their city. They have extensions of universities like IUPUI (IndianaU/PurdueU), Ball State and an assortment of other colleges (medical school near downtown as well). Although there isn't a "bigtime" college in their city, they've covered the bases and it seems you can obtain a quality education in the city.

My point is they have a very vibrant and growing city w/o the big time college presence (granted Purdue and IU and within an hour or so drive I think). I was thoroughly impressed and if there is one city Charlotte should model, it would be Indianapolis because they're one of the few cities in the midwest that seems to have strong growth.

The true measure of liveability and growth is not some random ranking but is your city growing and can the infrastructure sustain the growth. People say negative things about Atlanta, New York, Chicago, etc., so Charlotteans shoud not let it ruffle their feathers (RDU was voted #1 in these polls in 1994 and is still trashed by a lot of folk...sprawl....sprawl...sprawl....it's bad, but there is a lot more to this area than that!).

The South in general, ATL, RDU, Columbia, etc. is not for everybody and each area has it's quirks (hard pressed to beat the weather if you enjoy a little flavor of the 4 seasons).

I was recently in Columbia and Charlotte and enjoyed both of them. If I had to chose between the two it would be Charlotte, as I enjoy professional sports, not to slam Columbia because the city has a lot to offer.

Someone mentioned in another thread that Charlotte did not have a medical school. It's just another challenge for the city and when the build one, it'll probably be near uptown and impressive......maybe that'll move from #98 to #78.

Seriously, many of the cities ranked above Charlotte are very envious of their growth but not the headaches associated with improving the infrastructure to maintain decent livability standards....comes with the territory I guess.

[otherstream]

Johnson & Wales IS a downtown University, with a campus and domitories.

I think the key to krazeeboi's post was a "large" and "significant" university downtown. Johnson & Wales, a two-year-old campus with only 2100 students, all of whom are studying more or less the same subject, doesn't really qualify at this point. To get the kind of "buzz" some posters refer to, the university needs (a) to be pretty big and diversified, and (b) to have been in place for quite some time, so that the supporting sevices -- and surrounding landscape -- have time to develop and evolve. This is clearly not the case in Charlotte.

That said, I'm not suggesting that it necessarily needs to be the case, either. An older, established downtown university might have made downtown a little less sterile and "bankerish", but that's a non-issue at this point. It's not something that can be built from scratch. As much as I love Charlotte, we have a rather annoying tendency here to fantasize that "vibrancy" and "diversity" can be built from scratch by replacing the old and "unsightly" with shiny new construction as long as it's all "properly planned".

This not an effort to jump into the whole "Charlotte vs. wherever" bandwagon; I obviously found Charlotte pleasant enough to return to from San Francisco last year, so I'm not complaining, nor would I complain about living in Columbia, which is someplace I've always rather liked. I think our very productive city works pretty well, even absent a bunch of record stores, college hangouts, and (blecch) the "creative class", although at least one decent used bookstore would be nice.

[The_sandlapper]

Actually Austin does have LRT on the burner at least proposed for the near future, Columbia has as well (addressed) the issue of LRT but then again so have several other mid-sized cities/ metros in the USA and the south.

Also in regard to DT college population right there is USC in DT Cola, but there is also Benedict, and Allen Universities both historically black schools. USC's student pop. is around 26K not sure how many kids attend CPCC, Johnson & Wales, and JC Smith but hey if it adds up to more than at least 26K then more power to them!

[dubone]

A #98 ranking doesn't completely surprise me. I think the city is in transition. It is more urban than people-who-don't-like-urban, leading people to flock to surburban locations for which there is no where near enough infrastructure. So we end up with overcrowded schools and roads.

But then, it is also not urban enough for the people-who-don't-like-suburban. So we don't have much of the interesting and unique urban quirkiness that develops from having an urban population for a longer period of time. College students would count toward that, but aren't necessary in my view to develop much of that. It has only been in the last five-ten years that people are coming to live downtown, but it is still to early for that to have grown.

But the city continues to grow because it is in the warm and beautiful Carolinas, it has a lot of good paying jobs, and the quality of life detractions are less overall than where people are moving from.

I'll bet in five years, the city will have more of the urban vibe and uniques that urbanites like, as we'll have light rail, a critical mass of people living in urban neighborhoods, downtown retail, and a lot more visitors to urban locations. The vibe is already turning a corner, but in five years, it will be solid. The suburban issues will probably come to head in the next five years, too. I suspect at some point then, we will have a major spree of building schools and road capacity through some new revenue source.

[monsoon]

Actually Austin does have LRT on the burner at least proposed for the near future, Columbia has as well (addressed) the issue of LRT but then again so have several other mid-sized cities/ metros in the USA and the south.

Also in regard to DT college population right there is USC in DT Cola, but there is also Benedict, and Allen Universities both historically black schools. USC's student pop. is around 26K not sure how many kids attend CPCC, Johnson & Wales, and JC Smith but hey if it adds up to more than at least 26K then more power to them!

CPCC has 50,000 students.

A lot of cities have proposals for LRT. But not so many make the tough choices to actually make it a reality. Neither Austin or Columbia have done this. In Charlotte/Mecklenburg, the residents actually voted in a tax specifically for mass transit. That is pretty progressive.

[eastsider]

Austin does currently have a commuter rail line under construction and scheduled to open in 2008. A second line could be running by 2010/2011. There is a push from some city leaders down there to have a referendum on light rail and downtown trolley system this fall.

[monsoon]

I was under the impression the CR in Austin was still just a proposal.

[The_sandlapper]

Eastsider I love that avatar! That's how it seems what people think of me when I say I'm from SC!

[teshadoh]

CPCC does not have 50,000 students downtown though & is still a commuter college from my understanding. Similiarly, Georgia State University, a college of 25k + in downtown has finally migrated in the past 10 years from strictly commuter college to a college campus. This has been one of the greatest positive transformations for Atlanta's downtown. Hopefully CPCC could have a similar impact on Charlotte's downtown in the future.

Regarding the Indianapolis comparison, that is a good one - I would in fact consider Indianapolis & Columbus OH as midwest sunbelt cities. But both have positives that would be difficult to replicate, Columbus has 2 major colleges in the near downtown area (OSU is a bit north) & Indianapolis has something that only being a larger city in 1900 could have - a sizable urban core. Indianapolis has obviously torn down a large amount of it, judging from the number of parking lots surrounding it's downtown. But an older urban downtown is something hard to compete with - which are Charlotte, Columbia & Atlanta's greatest challenge.

[monsoon]

This is an interesting ranking.

Says that Charlotte is one of the 30 most livable cities in the USA.

It also says this:

"In addition, the Charlotte area has an outstanding system of higher education. It is fortunate to have 35 colleges and universities that serve over 150,000 students. Charlotte is home to the state's largest community college, Central Piedmont Community College. In addition, the University of North Carolina (UNC) at Charlotte is known to be one of the best education values available."

I realize there is a bit of a tendency by some to simply dismiss CPCC as not really being a Univeristy so it doesn't count, but I think that is being a little unfair to Charlotte. CPCC is a great school and hundreds of thousands of successful careers have been launched from there.

[dubone]

CPCC is one of the best community colleges in the nation, so anyone who dismisses it should stop. But because it doesn't have dorms, it doesn't really have that 24hour/day college feel. It is just like any of the other work places, where people come do their business and leave.

At night, I think Gateway is starting to seem more like a college town as a result of J&W than Liz Ave does from CPCC. I think that is purely from the dorms.

It'd be cool if CPCC could figure out a way to build dorms as part of the Elizabeth Ave corridor. That'd really make that area much more lively. Any concentration of teenagers and early-20-somethings adds quite a bit to the culture and liveliness of an area. It also adds to funny smells.

[monsoon]

This is afterall a ranking of the city, not downtown. There are plenty of schools here with dormitories and the "college feel" and UNCC with its 20,000+ students is the largest.

[krazeeboi]

This is afterall a ranking of the city, not downtown. There are plenty of schools here with dormitories and the "college feel" and UNCC with its 20,000+ students is the largest.

This is true, but UNCC is so far removed from the rest of the city that it really doesn't have as much of an impact that it could have had had it been located in an inner-ring suburb or downtown; the area in which it's located isn't called "University City" for nothing, as the area is essentially a city unto itself. There's no denying that there's a college presence in Charlotte, but the city overall doesn't really have a "college feel." I think Nashville is probably a good example of a Southern city without a sizeable downtown university (its largest, Vanderbilt, is about two miles from downtown), yet has somewhat of a college feel to it.

[monsoon]

Actually I think the lack of a "college feel" is a good thing. I would rather live in a place not focused on just a University.

[The_sandlapper]

This is an interesting ranking.

Says that Charlotte is one of the 30 most livable cities in the USA.

It also says this:

"In addition, the Charlotte area has an outstanding system of higher education. It is fortunate to have 35 colleges and universities that serve over 150,000 students. Charlotte is home to the state's largest community college, Central Piedmont Community College. In addition, the University of North Carolina (UNC) at Charlotte is known to be one of the best education values available."

I realize there is a bit of a tendency by some to simply dismiss CPCC as not really being a Univeristy so it doesn't count, but I think that is being a little unfair to Charlotte. CPCC is a great school and hundreds of thousands of successful careers have been launched from there.

Columbia is listed on that site too in the mid-sized category, yet still no love

Most livable cities

[monsoon]

Columbia is listed on that site too in the mid-sized category yet still no love

Haha, this is the Charlotte forum. If I were going to move back to SC, Columbia would be my first choice.

[krazeeboi]

Actually I think the lack of a "college feel" is a good thing. I would rather live in a place not focused on just a University.

This is true for many people; however, I'd hardly say that Nashville is just focused on its universities as that city has a few components to its identity, the most prominent being the music industry (particularly country music). The college feel in Nashville is integrated with other vibes in the city, probably sometimes overshadowed by them.

Metro.m, you mean to tell me you wouldn't move back to your beloved, booming hometown?

[The_sandlapper]

I know, but I couldn't let the initial "shocked to see Columbia" comment slide, by the first poster. I mean I couldn't believe what I was reading?

[monsoon]

Metro.m, you mean to tell me you wouldn't move back to your beloved, booming hometown?

1970s Myrtle Beach does not exist anymore.

[otherstream]

1970s Myrtle Beach does not exist anymore.

Heck, 1990s Myrtle Beach doesn't even exist anymore.

[Spartan]

This is an interesting ranking.

Says that Charlotte is one of the 30 most livable cities in the USA.

It also says this:

"In addition, the Charlotte area has an outstanding system of higher education. It is fortunate to have 35 colleges and universities that serve over 150,000 students. Charlotte is home to the state's largest community college, Central Piedmont Community College. In addition, the University of North Carolina (UNC) at Charlotte is known to be one of the best education values available."

I realize there is a bit of a tendency by some to simply dismiss CPCC as not really being a Univeristy so it doesn't count, but I think that is being a little unfair to Charlotte. CPCC is a great school and hundreds of thousands of successful careers have been launched from there.

To be fair, Columbia has 12 colleges- there is much more than USC. I don't have any numbers though. I don't think that anyone is discrediting CPCC, but its not one of the big state supported schools (like UNC, NC State, etc) so it gets less notoriety. CPCC has an enrollment of around 15,000- not 50,000. You don't hear anything about Midlands Tech (Columbia's community college) but it serves around 11,000, and I have no doubt that it is equally as good as CPCC.

I am interested to know what these 35 colleges are. I didn't know that Charlotte had so many. It seems that the city would advertize it a little more since its such an impressive number.