Greater Greenville Economic Developments

[gs3]

Carbon Motors is not as high profile as BMW, simply because of BMW's worldwide reputation, but in terms of impact I think Carbon Motors might be bigger than BMW. They will build advanced police cars, and are forecasting 10,000 jobs for the area they decide upon. I know that estimates can be wrong, but it goes both ways (e.g., BMW underestimated the number of jobs it would create in Greenville). BMW employs around 4,000 or 5,000 in Greer, yes?

With any of these huge companies, the jobs created in the supply network are often quite significant too (I think this would surely be the case with Carbon Motors).

Landing Carbon Motors would be great, but I'm not getting my hopes up. While Greenville does have some positives (automotive research, Cytec carbon fibers and the new titanium mill), apparently the Indiana site has a 1.7 million auto factory that closed several years ago. Carbon is looking at retrofitting this factory. My question, would it cost more to retrofit an existing factory to their need, or build a factory from the ground up? IMO, they'll choose the site that cost the least as this is an upstart company.

[Greenville]

Landing Carbon Motors would be great, but I'm not getting my hopes up. While Greenville does have some positives (automotive research, Cytec carbon fibers and the new titanium mill), apparently the Indiana site has a 1.7 million auto factory that closed several years ago. Carbon is looking at retrofitting this factory. My question, would it cost more to retrofit an existing factory to their need, or build a factory from the ground up? IMO, they'll choose the site that cost the least as this is an upstart company.

Good points. I guess we'll see how long-term their vision is. They might save some cash up front by retrofitting an existing building, and could even justify it with the tired "tough economy" line. However, if they are thinking beyond 5 or even 10 years, I don't see how they can ignore the importance of being in a metro like GSP with the unique advantages already mentioned.

Besides, if an existing facility is a requirement for Carbon Motors, then I would like to think that they would have included that in their initial site selection criteria. Hmm...

Edited July 13, 2009 by Greenville

[krazeeboi]

Now I don't know the first thing about automotive manufacturing, but some folks on the Charlotte board were questioning CM's business model as NC is listed as a state of interest as well.

[btoy]

Landing Carbon Motors would be great, but I'm not getting my hopes up. While Greenville does have some positives (automotive research, Cytec carbon fibers and the new titanium mill), apparently the Indiana site has a 1.7 million auto factory that closed several years ago. Carbon is looking at retrofitting this factory. My question, would it cost more to retrofit an existing factory to their need, or build a factory from the ground up? IMO, they'll choose the site that cost the least as this is an upstart company.

Saw Bobby Hitt from BMW speak the other day and he made a great point that we need to keep in mind when car companies are doing site selection.

The BMW factory is the only automotive manufactoring facility east of the mountains. All of the others are west of the mountains and that is becuase that is where the suppliers are.

BMW exports more cars that are produced in Greer than they sell domestically, the other car factories west of the mountains exclusively or almost exclusively manufactored for sale domestically.

[Greenville]

Saw Bobby Hitt from BMW speak the other day and he made a great point that we need to keep in mind when car companies are doing site selection.

The BMW factory is the only automotive manufactoring facility east of the mountains. All of the others are west of the mountains and that is becuase that is where the suppliers are.

BMW exports more cars that are produced in Greer than they sell domestically, the other car factories west of the mountains exclusively or almost exclusively manufactored for sale domestically.

But more manufacturers here likely means more suppliers here (BMW has helped create a nice supply network in the Upstate, too). Carbon Motors locating here would cause more suppliers to follow suit.

[gs3]

Saw Bobby Hitt from BMW speak the other day and he made a great point that we need to keep in mind when car companies are doing site selection.

The BMW factory is the only automotive manufactoring facility east of the mountains. All of the others are west of the mountains and that is becuase that is where the suppliers are.

BMW exports more cars that are produced in Greer than they sell domestically, the other car factories west of the mountains exclusively or almost exclusively manufactored for sale domestically.

Good point.

I would assume this also keeps BMW a bit more stable during this national economic downturn (since cars are shipped worldwide). Factories like Honda in Alabama pretty much produce 100% of their product geared toward the US market, like the Honda minivan.....minivan's are uniquely American, suburban, soccer mom.

[gman430]

Carbon Motors has announced three states as finalists for their new manufacturing plant and South Carolina is one of them: http://www.carbonmotors.com/news-releases/...nal-3-US-States

[vicupstate]

Carbon Motors selection down to four cities

Apparently Aiken is in the running too. At least SC has a 50/50 chance. I wonder if Governor Sh*thead being on vacation will negatively impact our chances.

[DowntownCityGirl]

Carbon Motors selection down to four cities

Apparently Aiken is in the running too. At least SC has a 50/50 chance. I wonder if Governor Sh*thead being on vacation will negatively impact our chances.

...or, perhaps, positively impact our chances...

[krazeeboi]

Seems like the Indiana site might be the front-runner to land the Carbon Motors facility. Greenville County Council chairman Butch Kirven said he never thought the company would locate in the Upstate. From the information in the article, it doesn't really sound like this company is all it's cracked up to be, so this could turn out to be a good thing for the Upstate.

[gman430]

Seems like the Indiana site might be the front-runner to land the Carbon Motors facility. Greenville County Council chairman Butch Kirven said he never thought the company would locate in the Upstate. From the information in the article, it doesn't really sound like this company is all it's cracked up to be, so this could turn out to be a good thing for the Upstate.

This will be third time the chairman/CEO of Carbon Motors has tried to build a start-up automotive company. The first two times failed. Will the third time be a charm?

[kristib726]

Seems like the Indiana site might be the front-runner to land the Carbon Motors facility. Greenville County Council chairman Butch Kirven said he never thought the company would locate in the Upstate. From the information in the article, it doesn't really sound like this company is all it's cracked up to be, so this could turn out to be a good thing for the Upstate.

It's official.....Carbon Motors is heading to Indiana. They announced it at today's rally. On to other opportunities.

http://www.gsabusiness.com/news/28767-carb...-south-carolina

[Greenville]

It's official.....Carbon Motors is heading to Indiana. They announced it at today's rally. On to other opportunities.

http://www.gsabusiness.com/news/28767-carb...-south-carolina

Oh well. Based on the recent comments of some Upstate leaders, Carbon Motors wasn't seriously considering Greenville to begin with. They were just using us as leverage (which should say something about our standing in the automotive world).

[GSP Tiger]

It's official.....Carbon Motors is heading to Indiana. They announced it at today's rally. On to other opportunities.

http://www.gsabusiness.com/news/28767-carb...-south-carolina

Definitely not good, and slops to the parties involved. We must be more aggressive to lure automotive cluster opportunities to this area.

[krazeeboi]

Definitely not good, and slops to the parties involved. We must be more aggressive to lure automotive cluster opportunities to this area.

If you read the article I posted, 1) it doesn't appear as though Carbon Motors was serious about locating in the Upstate to begin with and 2) the company's business model appears to be a bit shaky. The only way the Upstate could have really been competitive was to throw tons of incentives the company's way, and I don't think it would have been worth it--especially since no site in the Upstate could really provide what the Indiana site does. So I wouldn't be so quick to attribute this loss (and it's really not a loss IMO) to regional leaders.

[Greenville]

If you read the article I posted, 1) it doesn't appear as though Carbon Motors was serious about locating in the Upstate to begin with and 2) the company's business model appears to be a bit shaky. The only way the Upstate could have really been competitive was to throw tons of incentives the company's way, and I don't think it would have been worth it--especially since no site in the Upstate could really provide what the Indiana site does. So I wouldn't be so quick to attribute this loss (and it's really not a loss IMO) to regional leaders.

Good points. Plus, we were seemingly burned by The South Financial Group (parent company of Carolina First). We gave them a nice incentive package to build their headquarters, and now they don't even have the money to finish the job (or hire those thousands of people they promised). I realize that the economy has hindered a lot of companies' plans, but I have to wonder if that incentive money we gave TSFG will be repaid if they fail to keep up their end of the deal.

The least they can do is build a nice iconic skyscraper downtown.

[distortedlogic]

If you read the article I posted, 1) it doesn't appear as though Carbon Motors was serious about locating in the Upstate to begin with and 2) the company's business model appears to be a bit shaky. The only way the Upstate could have really been competitive was to throw tons of incentives the company's way, and I don't think it would have been worth it--especially since no site in the Upstate could really provide what the Indiana site does. So I wouldn't be so quick to attribute this loss (and it's really not a loss IMO) to regional leaders.

This may be but I think it is important for us to be able to land some of these big deals. Throwing an obscene amount of money to get it it not the way to go, but we will need to be able to attract some of these type developments if the upstate is to stay competitive and continue to offer enough jobs, thus encouraging continued strong growth. Perhaps we should evalaute what we have learned from some of theones that "got away" over the past couple of years. We know about Audi, Rolls Royce, and Carbon Motors (at least). They all seemed to go where there was a site that was more project ready. Is there something the upstate should be doing to make our area more "project ready"?

[krazeeboi]

I realize that the economy has hindered a lot of companies' plans, but I have to wonder if that incentive money we gave TSFG will be repaid if they fail to keep up their end of the deal.

There's usually some sort of clause in the incentives agreement that says as much.

[Greenville]

There's usually some sort of clause in the incentives agreement that says as much.

Good to hear.

Hopefully TSFG will rebound and exceed their initial goals.

[krazeeboi]

They all seemed to go where there was a site that was more project ready. Is there something the upstate should be doing to make our area more "project ready"?

Although the Upstate covers a large area of land, one area can only sustain so many mega-projects. As long as ICAR remains strong, the region has nothing to worry about as far as the automotive industry is concerned IMO. That place is going to prove to be a gold mine in the long run.

[krazeeboi]

Good to hear.

Hopefully TSFG will rebound and exceed their initial goals.

And expand downtown and build a 700-footer.

[distortedlogic]

Although the Upstate covers a large area of land, one area can only sustain so many mega-projects. As long as ICAR remains strong, the region has nothing to worry about as far as the automotive industry is concerned IMO. That place is going to prove to be a gold mine in the long run.

Agreed. But, will ICAR provide enough jobs for the area as it grows (or even assist with the growth)? It seems we will need to continue to attract new companies that are independant of ICAR in order to continue to diversify. We don't want to put all of our eggs in the ICAR basket, like was done in the past with textiles. I guess I am talking about other projects too (not necessarily the three mentioned earlier), any project that is massive in scale and that can provide a lot of jobs and hugley impact the development of the area. Two other recent examples were the McChesney Point project and Project Skyline. Both fell through, yet promised thousands of jobs with an ability to singlehandedly help change Gville in a big way. It is nice that we are considered for such projects, but we need for some of them to come to fruition (ie. it is nice to be considered for that big promotion, but little changes unless you actually get it).

And expand downtown and build a 700-footer.

HMMm. Perhaps if they consider a DT expansion in the future they will take a look at Univeristy Ridge...

[GvilleSC]

HMMm. Perhaps if they consider a DT expansion in the future they will take a look at Univeristy Ridge...

or perhaps their ATM, drive thru, and parking lot at the corner of Main and McBee...

I think University Ridge is a great place for midrises like we see at Riverplace. Highrises should be confined to the City Center and North End, IMO.

[distortedlogic]

or perhaps their ATM, drive thru, and parking lot at the corner of Main and McBee...

I think University Ridge is a great place for midrises like we see at Riverplace. Highrises should be confined to the City Center and North End, IMO.

How about a signiture highrise with a few midrises surrounding it. That could look fantastic there as that site is on a hill. There would also be great views to the rest of DT.

[Greenville]

How about a signiture highrise with a few midrises surrounding it. That could look fantastic there as that site is on a hill. There would also be great views to the rest of DT.

I would rather add to our Center City skyline instead of seeing tall buildings on the County Square site. Regardless, some condos where County Square currently sits would be THE place to live. Wow, what a view!