Will Charlotte ever become a World Class City?

[monsoon]

One thing that I have not seen mentioned here is the building of the Whitewater Rapids center on the Catawba river. It is certainly a world class facility, and many of the cities mentioned above would love to have the resources to build such an item. They don't of course because they are too mired down in the politics of a dying city with huge population losses. Yet here in Charlotte, such a facility can be conceived, regionally agreed to, financed, and constructed with almost no issues at all. How many cities in the USA can get the surrounding counties to agree to participate in the building, financing, and construction of a facility that isn't associated with a major sport?

To me the building of such a facility in such a manner, strikes me as being very progressive and forward thinking. Something that stikes me as being very lacking in places having stuffy "elite" universities. Many many places are looking at Charlotte and wishing they had what we have here.

[krazeeboi]

One thing that I have not seen mentioned here is the building of the Whitewater Rapids center on the Catawba river. It is certainly a world class facility, and many of the cities mentioned above would love to have the resources to build such an item. They don't of course because they are too mired down in the politics of a dying city with huge population losses.

Not sure about the other cities, but Richmond actually has natural rapids on the James River running through downtown as the result of the city being located on a fall line. Very few cities can claim to have urban rapids.

[monsoon]

http://www.charlottewhitewater.com/

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Charlotte really needs to work on improving its social climate in order to become a real 1st calibre city. The city still is extremely socially conservative and regressive. Even Raleigh-Durham has a more progressive social climate than Charlotte. Any city where homosexuality is still not protected by law and still considered controversial is not yet ready for prime time. Charlotte needs an infusion of progressive culture.

[monsoon]

Any city where homosexuality is still not protected by law and still considered controversial is not yet ready for prime time. Charlotte needs an infusion of progressive culture.

Well that would be..... The entire United States. Under the US Constitution is is perfectly legal to discriminate based on Sexual Orientation. Please tell me where in the United States a Gay person can go and enjoy the same rights as a Straight person?

If anyone else here is going to make comments such as "Charlotte is regressive or opressive", then please give some examples of why you think so. Else this just comes down to city bashing and while it is an opinion, we do have a rule against this. We can discuss Charlotte's faults all day long, but please be specific when doing so instead of making broad sweeping statements about the area. That is actually very unprogressive.

[cinco]

Not sure about the other cities, but Richmond actually has natural rapids on the James River running through downtown as the result of the city being located on a fall line. Very few cities can claim to have urban rapids.

with the coming of the whitewater park and the fact that recently my sister in-law married an avid kayaker... i have been learning alot on the matter. he is from boone, and is a well known member of the "paddling" community. he and my sister in-law moved down to charlotte about 4 months ago, and a big reason is the upcoming whitewater park. he is very excited and often says that in 10 years or so the charlotte area will be producing the worlds best paddlers. the thing that he often reminds me of is that this park will be functional at all times. the same cannot be said for natural rivers like the james river, which flucuate in volume and go through extreme temps. he is going to one river this weekend that is dam controlled, but they only release a paddle able amount for a 15 day window, once a year. the whitewater park already has many enthusiasts moving here... not to mention that north carolina boasts some of the best natural whitewater as well. in short there is nothing like what this park will be - in the WORLD. when charlotte starts adding things like that to it's resume, it's building stock to becoming "world class".

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Well that would be..... The entire United States. Under the US Constitution is is perfectly legal to discriminate based on Sexual Orientation. Please tell me where in the United States a Gay person can go and enjoy the same rights as a Straight person?

If anyone else here is going to make comments such as "Charlotte is regressive or opressive", then please give some examples of why you think so. Else this just comes down to city bashing and while it is an opinion, we do have a rule against this. We can discuss Charlotte's faults all day long, but please be specific when doing so instead of making broad sweeping statements about the area. That is actually very unprogressive.

Massachusetts. ANd to some extent any of the 17 states that protect gays from discrimination in housing, employment, or credit. Moreover, many cities and counties have gay rights laws on the books that protect people within their boundaries, including Orange County, NC, Miami-Dade County, Arlington County, VA, Lexington, KY, and ATL. Gay rights are pretty much accepted and adopted in the major metropolitan areas today. Even in places in the Deep South like NEw Orleans, domestic partnership laws were passed long ago. Moreover, other states like Connecticut, Maine, California, and New Jersey have passed civil union or domestic partnership laws that grant same-sex couple many of the same rights as heterosexual couples. The point is that Charlotte is far behind these other places, even places like Durham, Chapel Hill, and Asheville.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

And just from observation, I can tell you that I have seen many, many same-sex couples holding hands in Raleigh, Chapel Hill, Durham, and Asheville on the public streets and at malls, including football and hockey games. I didn't even see anyone react with surprise to this fact in these areas. In contrast, I have yet to see a same-sex couple holding hands in Charlotte in a public venue that is not "gay specific." THat is just my experience, but I think it signifies the social climate in CLT.

[atlrvr]

Well two gay men walked out of the condo for sale next to my house yesterday holding hands after touring it.....

EDIT** (Though I suppose the fact I even noticed it probably means its not as regular occurance as heterosexual couple holding hands....or maybe I'm just overly curious of who may next door nieghbhors may be, because a majority in that building should be committed).

Not to be argumentative, because it's not overly common, but I just wanted to mention a recent example that I think may indicate Charlotte is turning a corner.

On a different note, I find there to be TONS of lesbian couples here that act like couples in public, much more so than male couples.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Oh, and the good news is that indeed CLT may be turning the corner, but putting some legislation on the books will be a concrete sign that it has. After all, Cincinnati had a voter-approved anti-gay law on the books until the people overturned it in 2004. Now, the city has a new gay rights law on the book. Cities have to be strategic and deliberate about fostering tolerance and acceptance.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

Massachusetts. ANd to some extent any of the 17 states that protect gays from discrimination in housing, employment, or credit. Moreover, many cities and counties have gay rights laws on the books that protect people within their boundaries, including Orange County, NC, Miami-Dade County, Arlington County, VA, Lexington, KY, and ATL. Gay rights are pretty much accepted and adopted in the major metropolitan areas today. Even in places in the Deep South like NEw Orleans, domestic partnership laws were passed long ago. Moreover, other states like Connecticut, Maine, California, and New Jersey have passed civil union or domestic partnership laws that grant same-sex couple many of the same rights as heterosexual couples. The point is that Charlotte is far behind these other places, even places like Durham, Chapel Hill, and Asheville.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but people are fantasizing if they think they can walk around anywhere in Massachusetts holding hands or sharing a kiss. There are definite exceptions - Provincetown, Amherst, Northampton, and a (very) few neighborhoods in Boston but a gay couple holding hands in (most) of Boston, Somerville, Worcester, Springfield, Fall River, New Bedford or any small Massachusetts town is just as unlikely as any other place in the North or the South.

Additionally, North Carolina may be the only state where legislation to ban gay marriage in the constitution has NOT occurred. In fact, it's been rejected by the legislature for several years now. It doesn't mean the legislature is open to allowing gay marriage but at least they haven't acted to prohibit it either.

Charlotte really needs to work on improving its social climate in order to become a real 1st calibre city. The city still is extremely socially conservative and regressive. Even Raleigh-Durham has a more progressive social climate than Charlotte. Any city where homosexuality is still not protected by law and still considered controversial is not yet ready for prime time. Charlotte needs an infusion of progressive culture.

Raleigh: progressive? I just left Raleigh after living there for 16 years. The western Triangle is progressive no doubt but Raleigh? Raleigh can't even get a $.05 sales tax passed for mass transit.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

I was not being defeatist. I was being realistic. I moved to Charlotte a year ago and greatly enjoy it. I think the city's future is very bright but we have several factors that will limit us from achieving greatness soon in my opinion. Unenlightened attitudes towards anyone who is not white or heterosexual and christian, lack of great natural beauty, a strong anti-intellectualist bent towards unconservative art,ideas and an obsession with Nascar which may be popular around here but hardly make us a cultural capital. Finally the lack of elite universities and biotech, the Triangle will always outrank us there. World class cities have at least one of these attributes and we have none. This is the present and forseeable future. With all the transplants moving in and great projects in Uptown on the drawing board we will make great progress in becoming a great regional power but I can't see beyond that ,I don't think its a defeastist viewpoint at all.

If "realists" were the driving force in Germany or Japan after World War 2, neither country would have been able to rebuild many of their utterly flattened cities. "Realists" would never have undertaken the reconstruction of the Frauenkirche in Dresden for example.

Atlanta's "realists" would have taken the consensus of Northern elistist 40 years ago who thought that city would never be more than a large regional power.

"Realists" wouldn't have rebuilt San Francisco after the 1906 earthquake.

"Realists" wouldn't support light rail for a city the size of Charlotte - or Salt Lake, or Portland...

"Realists" would have taken one look at the marshes and wetlands and said Chicago should never have been...

In my mind, there's a fine line between "realists" and "defeatists". "Realists" are tied to the current reality and lack an ability to "imagine" what can be.

As Daniel Burnham said after the Great Chicago Fire:

"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will not die, but long after we are gone be a living thing, asserting itself with ever-growing insistence."

Charlotte is better off if it aims high and misses the mark than to aim low and achieve mediocrity.

[Neo]

And just from observation, I can tell you that I have seen many, many same-sex couples holding hands in Raleigh, Chapel Hill, Durham, and Asheville on the public streets and at malls, including football and hockey games. I didn't even see anyone react with surprise to this fact in these areas. In contrast, I have yet to see a same-sex couple holding hands in Charlotte in a public venue that is not "gay specific." THat is just my experience, but I think it signifies the social climate in CLT.

During my almost one year stay in downtown Chicago a few years back I never once saw a same-sex couple holding hands. Does this also signify a social climate in a respectable world-class city like Chicago? It does occur in both Chicago and Charlotte even though you may not personally see it happening.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

I know parts of MA are not progressive. I cited MA in response to a comment about the law. The law in MA is decisively gay friendly, as it is in all of New England to varying degrees. Even the relatively conservative NH legislature defeated an anti-gay marriage amendment. Several states do not have anti-gay marriage amendments, including all New England states, Illiinois, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, New York, West Virginia, and Washington state. THe issue is being debated in Minnesota right now, but Democrats have vowed to keep it off the ballot.

That being said, I applaud North Carolina for not falling for the anti-gay amendment tactics. But that is not specific to Charlotte, but bespeaks well of the entire state.

As for same-sex hand holding, every conservative city or state has its liberal parts and every liberal city or state has its conservative parts, so I am not claiming that any state is totally gay-friendly or totally homophobic. But speaking generally, I have not seen as much same-sex hand holding in Charlotte as in most big cities. Whether or not you have seen a same-sex couple holding hands in downtown Chicago, Minneapolis, Durham, DC, or Providence, I don't think the average person would think that such a couple would feel more or as comfortable doing so in Charlotte as in the aforementioned locales. It is not the only barometer of being a progressive city, but can be an indicator.

Finally, my comment about the Triangle included Raleigh, but I actually meant Durham and Chapel Hill. I recently did see a same-sex couple holding hands in Raleigh, but the bulk of such couples I have seen have been in Durham and Orange counties. I also noticed that in every city I have seen same-sex couples holding hands, the vast majority have been young adults or teenagers, which tells you how much more comfortable younger people are with same-sex relationships.

[nyxmike]

Lets just put it this way: Is Charlotte a "world class city?" No. Does that mean it's terrible? Nope. It is progressing (it gets better every year), but I think we can all agree that it still has a long way to go. I can agree, to an extent, about Charlotte's social climate. It is all about conformity. A big problem is that the people who are different are actually intimidated by other people - they need to just not care and do whatever they want - it's a free country. I have no doubts that as Charlotte grows, the social climate will change. Everyone wants this place to be a certain way now, but they need to just accept it for what it is right now and understand that it's going to be completely different in 5-10 years. It's fustrating sometimes, but patience is a virtue.

Charlotte really needs a mayor who embraces diversity AND supports transit - the only good thing about McCrory is that he supports the transit plan. Other than that, he's a doofus.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

Charlotte really needs a mayor who embraces diversity AND supports transit - the only good thing about McCrory is that he supports the transit plan. Other than that, he's a doofus.

I agree, but I give him high, high marks on the transit thing though...

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Well, BOA is now 12th on the Fortune 500 chart and other Charlotte area companies have moved up several places. We need to strengthen our already strong financial scene by branching outside of commercial and consumer banking to investments, insurance, and what not. I know the big banks are expanding their services, but we need to encourage them to have those operations in Charlotte.

We should also encourage growth of the airport since we have no natural port.

How is being 'progressive' a major part of becoming a "world class" city?

[monsoon]

Massachusetts. ANd to some extent any of the 17 states that protect gays from discrimination in housing, employment, or credit. Moreover, many cities and counties have gay rights laws on the books that protect people within their boundaries, including Orange County, NC, Miami-Dade County, Arlington County, VA, Lexington, KY, and ATL. Gay rights are pretty much accepted and adopted in the major metropolitan areas today. Even in places in the Deep South like NEw Orleans, domestic partnership laws were passed long ago. Moreover, other states like Connecticut, Maine, California, and New Jersey have passed civil union or domestic partnership laws that grant same-sex couple many of the same rights as heterosexual couples. The point is that Charlotte is far behind these other places, even places like Durham, Chapel Hill, and Asheville.

In your zeal to cast this area as a backwards stone age place you missed the fact that Mecklenburg County, one of the very few counties in the State, South, and for that matter the USA, which did vote last year to add Sexual Orientation to its non-discrimination policy. That puts it on equal footing with any of the places you mentioned. Please make sure you do your homework in the future.

In any case, this has nothing to do with the fact that Charlotte is a global or world city IMO.

[voyager12]

I have seen gay couples holding hands in Charlotte and showing affection in several different neighborhoods and no one chased them down with tar and feather. But really I don't think judging "hand holding" is an accurate barometer on measuring gay friendliness. I don't like holding my boyfriend's hand in public but thats because I am not into PDA not because I am afraid of being gay bashed. We have a majority Democratic City Council that is relatively gay friendly a very supportive Democratic majority on County Council ( we need to keep Bill Jame and minions toothless next time around too so VOTE)The mayor is a phobe and actually relatively powerless but mayor's do serve as a city's emblems so that will be a thorn in our side until he finally leaves office. The Chamber of Commerce is gay friendly. The banks are. The president of the Dilworth association is gay.I would say the all the neighborhoods that comprise the core are gay accepting at the very least. Charlotte is a very white collar town and professionally even phobes here are mostly polite to your face. The business culture here is just as committed to advancing equal rights. The movement is not as activist and public as the Triangle because we are not impacted by large universities. Oh and Charlotte is not a world class city yet but we are moving forward! ( had to tie it in :-)

[Rickydavisfan21]

As for same-sex hand holding, every conservative city or state has its liberal parts and every liberal city or state has its conservative parts, so I am not claiming that any state is totally gay-friendly or totally homophobic. But speaking generally, I have not seen as much same-sex hand holding in Charlotte as in most big cities. Whether or not you have seen a same-sex couple holding hands in downtown Chicago, Minneapolis, Durham, DC, or Providence, I don't think the average person would think that such a couple would feel more or as comfortable doing so in Charlotte as in the aforementioned locales. It is not the only barometer of being a progressive city, but can be an indicator.

I assume you live in raleigh am I right, how do you have any ability to make a judgement on charlotte when you don't live here, how can you observe the social climate without spending a couple years in the same place, and since when is same sex hand holding evidence against a cities social atmosphere?????? Isn't it the preference of the person and that person's preference of public displays of affection the main thing represented by the persons actions. Maybe people in Orange County NC are just more comfortable with themselves, this is nothing about the surroundings.

A fair judgement on this situation is to look at how many protestors there were at Pride, which is done every year at Marshall Park I believe, but even then, that represents the beliefs of some small group of right wing extremists, in a city of 594k people.

I myself am very gay friendly, 60% of my male friends are gay. When I am in mostly homosexual atmospheres, like wednesday nights at caribou on east blvd, which is known as gay night, I don't see many gay men holding hands with eachother. Its a matter of personal preference, not of a city as a whole, I don't think gay men in this city are afraid of getting shot down, or beaten to death, or tarred and feathered for simply holding hands in public.

[Lady Celeste]

The 12 characteristics of a World City are....

1. International, first-name familiarity

2. Active influence and participation in international events and world affairs

3. A fairly large population

4. A major international airport

5. An advanced transportation system that includes several motorways and/or a large mass transit network offering multiple modes of transportation

6. In the West, several international cultures and communities

7. International financial institutions, law firms, corporate headquarters (especially conglomerates), and stock exchanges that have influence over the world economy

8. Advanced communications infrastructure that modern trans-national corporations rely on, such as fiberoptics, Wi-Fi networks, cellular phone services, and other high-speed lines of communications.

9. World-renowned cultural institutions, such as museums and universities.

10. A lively cultural scene, including film festivals, premieres, a thriving music or theatre scene; an orchestra, an opera company, art galleries, and street performers.

11. Several powerful and influential media outlets with an international reach

12. A strong sporting community, including major sports facilities, home teams in major league sports, and the ability and historical experience to host international sporting events such as the Olympic Games, Football World Cup or Grand Slam tennis events.

As long as we stick to these tangibles, we are able to have a serious discussion. Believe it or not but not every city that is listed as a world city is very open to some types of diverse populations. Try being a same-sex couple holding hands in say Jakarta, Singapore, Caracas, Santiago, Warsaw, Istanbul or Kuala Lumpur and see what reactions you get. We all hope to one day live in a world that is free of hangups...but for right now, Charlotte has just as much chance of becoming a world city as any other city....as long as it matches most of the tangibles listed above.

[Rickydavisfan21]

Also: I remember being at McDonough's an irish pub in savannah, and watching CNN or something and seeing a story about a man going into a gay bar with a weapon of some kind and killing a few people and severly injuring another couple of people. And where did this happen???

Not Charlotte, Not North Carolina, Not even in the south, but in Massachutes. I have friends from Mass, and they describe Boston and especially the Cape as extremely phobic of homosexuality

[Richhamleigh, DC]

Also: I remember being at McDonough's an irish pub in savannah, and watching CNN or something and seeing a story about a man going into a gay bar with a weapon of some kind and killing a few people and severly injuring another couple of people. And where did this happen???

Not Charlotte, Not North Carolina, Not even in the south, but in Massachutes. I have friends from Mass, and they describe Boston and especially the Cape as extremely phobic of homosexuality

I grew up in southern New England. As a gay man, I'd rather live in Charlotte than - with 3 or 4 exceptions - New England. They may have laws protecting gay people...they may even allow gay marriage but when it comes down to accepting gay neighbors that's a completely different story. New England was the hisotric center of abolition but try being a person of color and living in a suburb of one of New England's cities... In my suburban Hartford high school, I graduated with 534 and only 4 others were black. Getting back to the subject at hand, the point is New England - or any other place that places itself on a moral pedestial - has a very high likelihood of being shot down.

[voyager12]

I think another important aspect of a world class city is education. I think we can all agree that portions of CMS are mired in failure due to racial and economic inequities. In this regard we are very similar too many "world class" cities. I am relatively new to Charlotte. What can be done to fix CMS?

[Rickydavisfan21]

thank you for changing the subject v12, this is the most important arguement, at least in my opinion, about charlotte ever becoming a world class city. CMS IS TERRRRIBLE, well not terrible there are worse places in the country far worse places, for instance Savannah-Chatham County Schools are among the worst in the nation, and have lost their acreditation in past years. This issue is one that may haunt us for time to come unless we figure out some way to fix our schools if not improve them.

I personally went to Charlotte Latin School for 13 years, but dated and ran with many of the kids who went to Myers Park High, Providence High, and East Meck, 3 of the best High Schools in Charlotte, and I personally felt that each of these schools were lacking; in class size, academics and many other things that are essential to the success of a school