Germantown

[memphian]

Germantown will quickly run out of available land. What will happen then? Right now there are ordinances that limit buildings to only 3-4 floors (maybe 5). As Germantown runs out of land (and it will because it is still very desirable to live there) will high-end midrise condos become a reality?

We've talked about East Memphis becomingthe Buckhead of Memphis but what about Gtown?

[sleepy]

Germantown will quickly run out of available land. What will happen then? Right now there are ordinances that limit buildings to only 3-4 floors (maybe 5). As Germantown runs out of land (and it will because it is still very desirable to live there) will high-end midrise condos become a reality?

We've talked about East Memphis becomingthe Buckhead of Memphis but what about Gtown?

I bet they won't allow midrises. I know that it's already eaten up its annexation area. I suspect a slowly declining population due to aging, but it will stay a well-to-do inner-ring suburb.

In some sense, in terms of condos, I think its main competition might be downtown. That may be true of East Memphis as well.

[ricky_the_great]

I bet they won't allow midrises. I know that it's already eaten up its annexation area. I suspect a slowly declining population due to aging, but it will stay a well-to-do inner-ring suburb.

In some sense, in terms of condos, I think its main competition might be downtown. That may be true of East Memphis as well.

its building limit is 3 stories above ground. this is really prevelant by the Wolf river, when every single hotel, office and street line house is 2-3 stories. no more.

[memphian]

when you run out of land.... the only way to go is UP.

[soverbey]

G'town will never have high or mid rise buildings.

[ricky_the_great]

G'town will never have high or mid rise buildings.

i think it will. next 20 years. you might see a few 5-10 story buildings go up if laws permit. maybe on Germantown parkway by the river, or Popular ave.

Germantown has some pretty good density in portions of it. and i think its going to increase as time goes on.

[northernbizzkit1]

Golden Tulip Hotel in G'town

This should be interesting...five stories, luxe hotel based in Europe, would be the second US location. Opinions? Considering it is located between Johnson Road and Forest Hill Irene along Poplar, it stands to do well...plus, it looks like it would be of the 4-star variety. Should it pass and follow through, it would be nice to have a signature hotel to match the unique/upscale quality that is Germantown. I gotta say, tho...this will probably be as tall as it gets for Germantown...IMO, I could imagine seeing older neighbor hoods ('hood by Germantown Middle and then those along Poplar from around the '60s or so) going through transformations like those in E. Memphis (like what is going on around Tuckahoe)...before we moved out of Oakleigh, some people were beginning to buy houses and completely gut them and redo them...getting rid of the "Germantown of the 80s" vibe...Expensive as it would be, I could easily see people paying for two $200,000 homes, tearing them down, and building a larger house on the larger lot. All of this would bolster Germantown to even higher real estate rates...

[hgupta]

As Germantown fills in, the home prices will go up in the residential areas because of limited supply and high demand. Lack of supply isn't really a reason for the city to change their ordinances. Their property tax base is high enough that they don't need to attract more people by raising height restrictions. The citys main goal is to make sure that property values don't fall near Germantown Parkway.

Right near Germantown road, housing prices are going to fall, because no one wants to live so close to such a busy street. The only residential that will survive near Germantown road will be apartment complexes. Unfortunately, Germantown road is following the patterns of Lamar, Winchester and Summer. Developers clear cut the land, so the sound barrier created by trees is gone. Car dealerships, strip malls, and giant parking lots for bix box retailers kill property values, and when they abandon the area for newer, hipper parts of town, the area looks run down, and property values free fall.

[soverbey]

I just cannot imagine G'town ever allowing tall buildings in their serene suburban atmosphere, but i guess it's possible. just remember that they just recently fought against a water tower in their backyards.

[Bears]

I just cannot imagine G'town ever allowing tall buildings in their serene suburban atmosphere, but i guess it's possible. just remember that they just recently fought against a water tower in their backyards.

Yea I heard about that watertower debate. The two watertowers near Germantown High are currently the tallest things in Germantown. It makes quite the backdrop when crossing over G'town Parkway on Walnut Grove. I don't think its neccessarily a bad thing that Germantown doesn't want tall buildings. Everything from the buildings to the signs are small. I guess they are trying to keep their German architecture intact, especially on the southern end of the Pkwy. The only tall buildings I could see being developed would be a part of Germantown or Houston High or a steeple on a church.

[memphian]

I remember a newspaper article about how Gtown was in fact running out of room for development. The article specifically pointed out the height limits imposed by the city. The article went on to say that the city was very interested in broadening their tax base but was implying that it wanted more business.

I really do not see anything wrong with a 8-10 story condo building being built (luxe, not standard) to accomodate more people who do not want the upkeep of a yard. The biggest problem I have with Gtown (and I live here so I can say this) is that the people are so stuck in the belief that what worked 15-20 years ago that they can't see how to evolve the city into anything more than a bedroom community to Memphis.

[Clobber]

Golden Tulip Hotel in G'town

This should be interesting...five stories, luxe hotel based in Europe, would be the second US location. Opinions? Considering it is located between Johnson Road and Forest Hill Irene along Poplar, it stands to do well...plus, it looks like it would be of the 4-star variety. Should it pass and follow through, it would be nice to have a signature hotel to match the unique/upscale quality that is Germantown. I gotta say, tho...this will probably be as tall as it gets for Germantown...IMO, I could imagine seeing older neighbor hoods ('hood by Germantown Middle and then those along Poplar from around the '60s or so) going through transformations like those in E. Memphis (like what is going on around Tuckahoe)...before we moved out of Oakleigh, some people were beginning to buy houses and completely gut them and redo them...getting rid of the "Germantown of the 80s" vibe...Expensive as it would be, I could easily see people paying for two $200,000 homes, tearing them down, and building a larger house on the larger lot. All of this would bolster Germantown to even higher real estate rates...

I'm most surprised at the support the Tulip is getting from residents. Hopefully they continue to support these kinds of projects.

[cdarr]

If Germantown maintains its exclusive atmosphere, it will continue to grow tax revenues through appreciation. Since you will no longer be able to build new subdivisions in Germantown, the only way to live there will be to "outbid" somebody else for an existing home there. Thus, prices will escalate higher and higher. But this all hinges on Germantown's ability to remain exclusive.

Adding mid-rise or even high-rise developments don't necessarily detract from that environment, so long as they are built in the right place. Putting them along Germantown Road in place of potentially-deteriorating retail establishments makes more sense that sticking one at Poplar and Dogwood.

[northernbizzkit1]

I'll post a link later, but if you go to the City of Germantown's official website and look at the pdf file for the Germantown 2020 Vision Plan, there is a line about how the city will expand via business/medical/etc. through mid-rise buildings. Thought that was interesting.

[memphian]

The Golden Tulip Hotel sounds like a cool development. If Gtown wants to continue to diiferentiate itself - developments like this will do it. I don't expect hotel buffs to come running to Gtown when its built but the best thing I see is that this is NOT another Hampton Inn or Courtyard by Marriott.

As for placement of any future midrise buildings.... I completely agree that it can't be just anywhere. I

[sleepy]

This being Memphis, let's bring up race.

Germantown High School is I believe something on the order of 40% African-American. I understand that most likely the majority of those students come from outside Germantown.

Now, given Memphis' expanding black middle class, does anyone think that if African-Americans begin to move into Germantown in large numbers, there will be white flight?

Hopefully, G-towners are too savvy to pack up and sell. If it was done en masse, all that would do of course would be to deflate their property values.

[memphian]

This being Memphis, let's bring up race.

Germantown High School is I believe something on the order of 40% African-American. I understand that most likely the majority of those students come from outside Germantown.

Now, given Memphis' expanding black middle class, does anyone think that if African-Americans begin to move into Germantown in large numbers, there will be white flight?

Hopefully, G-towners are too savvy to pack up and sell. If it was done en masse, all that would do of course would be to deflate their property values.

Just remember that you opened this door.

I don't believe you'll see much of any white flight out of Germantown. The economic factor alone makes the city desireable for all people. Germantown is a place where people seem to coexist reasonably well. Its an educated town and that usually leads to a bit more tolerance and compassion towards your fellow man. Now of course it is still very republican so that may be the biggest hurdle for many new/prospective residents.

Germantown is still very much a "Stepford" type city. I don't see that changing. Anyone who moves into Gtown is most likely looking for a quality of life they cannot find inside the city of Memphis. JMO

[Bears]

^I agree. IMO, "white flight" is gonna be almost nonexistant in the up coming generation. Most of the minorities are white collar and I can see that racial diversity grow and I don't think the next group of homebuyers will really care who their neighbor is, as long as its not another Prince Mongo The neighborhood has to be safe, reasonably quiet, and convienient for them to stick around. Here's a link to smart city about how many Memphians are actually satisfied with their neighborhoods. I don't know if its shelby county or only Memphis city.

http://smartcitymemphis.blogspot.com/2006/...-in-census.html

It'll probably end up like East Memphis w/o towers. Is there anything at the old Walmart? I think that would be the perfect place for a 20-30 story building unless the Wolf River bars any development that big. Its barely in Germantown and I don't think there are any single family residential in the area so no complaints. Whats going on with the huge lot on Hacks Cross and Poplar Pike infront of that church/Union University?

[northernbizzkit1]

This being Memphis, let's bring up race.

Germantown High School is I believe something on the order of 40% African-American. I understand that most likely the majority of those students come from outside Germantown.

Now, given Memphis' expanding black middle class, does anyone think that if African-Americans begin to move into Germantown in large numbers, there will be white flight?

Hopefully, G-towners are too savvy to pack up and sell. If it was done en masse, all that would do of course would be to deflate their property values.

Germantown High is actually 60-65% African American based on stats released by the State Dept. to the Commercial Appeal...as a student there, it is pretty easy to detect that There is a distinct African American majority at the school. I believe it's something along the lines of 60-65% African American, 30% Caucasian, and the rest goes to remaining minority groups. This is all due primarily to zoning shifts, but the current freshmen class has one of the lowest percentage of African American students (causing many to complain). I believe the senior class and my junior class are the main contributors to the black majority due to the fact that we are the last two grades let in before the major zoning/Houston brou ha ha took place.

I really doubt you will see a huge movement of black people into Germantown...perhaps you will see some but not enough to cause white flight due to the fact that Germantowners are most likely to pack their bags if their neighbor isn't keeping his grass below three inches in height than they are if they are black. One of the Fords bought a house in the Gardens of Oakleigh, and the neighbors say they didn't mind him because he had his garbage cans in by sundown on garbage day...

Furthermore, the rising black middle class in the Memphis MSA is primarily residing south of Bill Morris Parkway along Hacks Cross in those neighborhoods. Also, Collierville tends to be the suburb that is gathering the black middle class of Memphis. I'm sorry, but Germantown really isn't going to have a load of growth anymore, and it isn't due to race. It's due to the fact that unless you buy a tiny house that was built before 1980, you're going to have to spend $300,000 at least on a home in Germantown for a decent-sized, older home and over $400,000 on any new home that is built since most builders are going for huge homes on in-fill properties. I think I stated this before, but if you go down Hacks Cross north of Poplar Pike, you will see a prime example of what I believe is the future of Germantown. Take a look at the massive 6000+ sq. foot home...it used to be a tiny shack...now it is a Spanish mansion with a guest house rivaling the size of start-up homes in Cordova...cool, but expensive

[soverbey]

^ that 6000+ sq. foot home was built by Pau Gasol and fam of the Memphis Grizzlies

[mandrws1]

^ that 6000+ sq. foot home was built by Pau Gasol and fam of the Memphis Grizzlies

Really??

[soverbey]

Really??

yep they built that when his family first moved here

[Bears]

Furthermore, the rising black middle class in the Memphis MSA is primarily residing south of Bill Morris Parkway along Hacks Cross in those neighborhoods. Also, Collierville tends to be the suburb that is gathering the black middle class of Memphis. I'm sorry, but Germantown really isn't going to have a load of growth anymore, and it isn't due to race. It's due to the fact that unless you buy a tiny house that was built before 1980, you're going to have to spend $300,000 at least on a home in Germantown for a decent-sized, older home and over $400,000 on any new home that is built since most builders are going for huge homes on in-fill properties. I think I stated this before, but if you go down Hacks Cross north of Poplar Pike, you will see a prime example of what I believe is the future of Germantown. Take a look at the massive 6000+ sq. foot home...it used to be a tiny shack...now it is a Spanish mansion with a guest house rivaling the size of start-up homes in Cordova...cool, but expensive

Here's an article from todays CA about the Riverdale/Winchester areas Best Buy moving a few miles down the road. Article

I remember the city was trying to keep the line of commercial decay west of Riverdale. How's the Malco Majestic fairing? I wonder if the offices in Germantown/Southwind will be able to keep this area thriving. Germantown itself might be fine. Sort of a Midtown for East Memphis however, I worry about the commercial areas along Winchester.

[hgupta]

Here's an article from todays CA about the Riverdale/Winchester areas Best Buy moving a few miles down the road. Article

I remember the city was trying to keep the line of commercial decay west of Riverdale. How's the Malco Majestic fairing? I wonder if the offices in Germantown/Southwind will be able to keep this area thriving. Germantown itself might be fine. Sort of a Midtown for East Memphis however, I worry about the commercial areas along Winchester.

Its a shame that companies like BestBuy, Target, and Walmart build these awful giant stores and abandon them at the first chance of poor sales. These big box shells are almost always useless for other uses, and clearly indicate that the stores do not care about neighborhoods. The arguments that BestBuy provided are ridiculous. Do they really think that people avoid the store because the parking lot? Who drives out there for a stereo, decides that the parking lot is inconvenient, and leaves?

Luckily some of the big box retailers, like Circuit City actually stuck around as long as possible. That one shopping center on Riverdale (with Compusa and Homedepot) is always packed, and I can't picture it closing for a long time. I do like how Hickory Hill somehow managed to get the best Thai, Indian, Korean, and Mexican restaurants in town.

[Bears]

^I think Hickory Hill has kept nice foriegn resturants because of the immigrants who live there. I think Hickory Hill could become similar to southwest Detroit. I just got back from Detroit and I think Memphis and Detroit are quite similar. Large black population, some run down areas but some places were suprisingly nice, Downtown is nowhere near the center of the metro so they have thier own version of East Memphis called Troy, the suburbs mirror Cordova and SE Shelby County, and interstates don't seem to have cut apart neighborhoods much. However, traffic in Detroit is horrible (Memphians have no right to complain about traffic and roads being confusing ) and the homes are really close together.