Chandeliers Art Project

[bdp]

from what i understood at the meeting, the columns are actually designed by a studio in seagrove, north carolina, and are made out of clay taken directly from the fayetteville street site. which i thought was really cool. i could be wrong though... i misunderstand things pretty often.

[Subway Scoundrel]

There are two bits of irony in that that mess with my head. 1) The Independant is a Durham newspaper, 2) Bob Geary is almost startlingly progressive. http://indyweek.com/durham/authors/bobgeary.html

And here's the lamppost article of his, which has some good points, even if it is negative.

http://indyweek.com/durham/2006-01-18/citizen.html

Now, this is just my opinion

[bdp]

http://www.newsobserver.com/580/story/392557.html

hmm...

[Raleighsfinest]

In response to that article bdp. People here are so small minded. Why do people want to keep a characterless downtown. I have no idea why people during this era in Raleigh, are so scared to set our own legacy for this city. The past is our stepping stone for our future, but we must still create a path for ourselves the way we see fit.

[MR-2]

Now, this is just my opinion

[reed]

I think I'm as progressive as they come, but these things look corny to me. Very disney-esque. When I think of cool modern design, I think of clean lines and a mix of function & beauty. These don't fall into that category at all. I envision something much more sleek and sophisticated being a better fit.

[MR-2]

I think I'm as progressive as they come, but these things look corny to me. Very disney-esque. When I think of cool modern design, I think of clean lines and a mix of function & beauty. These don't fall into that category at all. I envision something much more sleek and sophisticated being a better fit.

I think the Soleil Tower was a bad idea, and a bad choice for the council to approve. I think it'll dramatically lower land-values in the residential areas around it (which are, sadly, some of the most beautiful parts of Raleigh's outskirts), and suck business from downtown. But hey, progress at all costs I guess.

I think the Convention Center Hotel is another ripoff, even if it's part of revitalization efforts. I wouldn't support building it at all the way it is. I'd rather drop the Mariott and have no hotel, if they aren't willing to make a decent building.

Shoot, I think the RBC headquarters could've been much better designed, but I support building it anyway, because we need it that much.

The lights are just another picky thing. I think the contrast in styles make them trashy. They're not a very big issue, so I don't see how thinking one way or another on them affects the more important issues above.

Think of it like this: someone could be totally against any revitalization. He might think that suburbanity is the ideal economic model for society. He might hate the lights because there's no point wasting any money on downtown. It should be used for those roads, so people can enjoy their freedom of choice about where to drive next.

On the other hand, you get the biggest pinko commie urbanist in the world (like me, or others), who is very concerned that every little thing be done properly with revitalization. Any unsuccessful projects should be cut, because they might make the whole effort look bad. If he finds the lights completely aesthetically detrimental, he'll vote against them, because he thinks the money could be better spent on... I don't know... good lights maybe, or education.

[Raleighsfinest]

I think the Soleil Tower was a bad idea, and a bad choice for the council to approve. I think it'll dramatically lower land-values in the residential areas around it (which are, sadly, some of the most beautiful parts of Raleigh's outskirts), and suck business from downtown. But hey, progress at all costs I guess.

I think the Convention Center Hotel is another ripoff, even if it's part of revitalization efforts. I wouldn't support building it at all the way it is. I'd rather drop the Mariott and have no hotel, if they aren't willing to make a decent building.

Shoot, I think the RBC headquarters could've been much better designed, but I support building it anyway, because we need it that much.

The lights are just another picky thing. I think the contrast in styles make them trashy. They're not a very big issue, so I don't see how thinking one way or another on them affects the more important issues above.

Think of it like this: someone could be totally against any revitalization. He might think that suburbanity is the ideal economic model for society. He might hate the lights because there's no point wasting any money on downtown. It should be used for those roads, so people can enjoy their freedom of choice about where to drive next.

On the other hand, you get the biggest pinko commie urbanist in the world (like me, or others), who is very concerned that every little thing be done properly with revitalization. Any unsuccessful projects should be cut, because they might make the whole effort look bad. If he finds the lights completely aesthetically detrimental, he'll vote against them, because he thinks the money could be better spent on... I don't know... good lights maybe, or education.

You know what you're right. We need to scrap all of the garbage our city leaders have approved and put together. We need to systematically eliminate these bozos because their competence level is that of an Alaskin

brino fish. You know what. I feel as though the whole Glenwood south idea is one of the biggest disasters in the history of Raleigh friggin North Carolina. We need a more traditonal and functional approach towards the plans that are implemented in our city's oldest infrastructure. Matter of fact, there ought not to be anymore plans approved, in the near, or distant future, for preservation reasons. I'm running for mayor next year and the first on my agenda is to put a hault on all downtown construction. My victory will oust liberal revitalization pansys such as Meeker and his band of ganja smoking hippies. Where is Mike Reagon when you need him!!!!!

[dmccall]

I think the Soleil Tower was a bad idea, and a bad choice for the council to approve. I think it'll dramatically lower land-values in the residential areas around it (which are, sadly, some of the most beautiful parts of Raleigh's outskirts), and suck business from downtown. But hey, progress at all costs I guess.

The Soleil Center contains a smaller, replacement hotel and some condos. How will this suck business from downtown?

How will property values go down??? The replacement of a failed, vacant, outdated collection of afterthoughts with an iconic, new building and the accompanying reorganization of one of the most sought after malls in the world will make houses in the immediate area more enticing. Make that WAY more enticing.

A good example of this very thing is the rebuilding of the Cameron Brown building by BTI. While they did a really boring, crappy job with it, the building no longer looked outdated. Kane obviously reorganized N. Hills, and property values within the few blocks behind the CB/BTI/FC building soared as much as any in Raleigh.

The funny thing about the Soleil critics is they would have most certainly approved of a new 15-ish story Westin to replace the deteriorating 12-story Sheraton. They universally approve of new condos dotting Kidds Hill where the strip mall was. Stack the two, though, and Raleigh has a travesty that will kill downtown and the surrounding housing market???????

If anyone here owns a soon-to-be-dramatically-devaluing-house near this bad idea, I'd love to get our realtors and lawyers together today. Any place. Any time.

[ericurbanite]

You know what you're right. We need to scrap all of the garbage our city leaders have approved and put together. We need to systematically eliminate these bozos because their competence level is that of an Alaskin

brino fish. You know what. I feel as though the whole Glenwood south idea is one of the biggest disasters in the history of Raleigh friggin North Carolina. We need a more traditonal and functional approach towards the plans that are implemented in our city's oldest infrastructure. Matter of fact, there ought not to be anymore plans approved, in the near, or distant future, for preservation reasons. I'm running for mayor next year and the first on my agenda is to put a hault on all downtown construction. My victory will oust liberal revitalization pansys such as Meeker and his band of ganja smoking hippies. Where is Mike Reagon when you need him!!!!!

Quite simply just disagree with you. Glenwood South gave Raleigh the momentum we currently have to realize DT Raleigh can be revitalized. Anyhow not really going to comment on anything else you said I just strongly disagree, hopefully you are just being sarcastic.

[reed]

I think the Soleil Tower was a bad idea, and a bad choice for the council to approve. I think it'll dramatically lower land-values in the residential areas around it (which are, sadly, some of the most beautiful parts of Raleigh's outskirts), and suck business from downtown. But hey, progress at all costs I guess.

I think the Convention Center Hotel is another ripoff, even if it's part of revitalization efforts. I wouldn't support building it at all the way it is. I'd rather drop the Mariott and have no hotel, if they aren't willing to make a decent building.

Shoot, I think the RBC headquarters could've been much better designed, but I support building it anyway, because we need it that much.

The lights are just another picky thing. I think the contrast in styles make them trashy. They're not a very big issue, so I don't see how thinking one way or another on them affects the more important issues above.

Think of it like this: someone could be totally against any revitalization. He might think that suburbanity is the ideal economic model for society. He might hate the lights because there's no point wasting any money on downtown. It should be used for those roads, so people can enjoy their freedom of choice about where to drive next.

On the other hand, you get the biggest pinko commie urbanist in the world (like me, or others), who is very concerned that every little thing be done properly with revitalization. Any unsuccessful projects should be cut, because they might make the whole effort look bad. If he finds the lights completely aesthetically detrimental, he'll vote against them, because he thinks the money could be better spent on... I don't know... good lights maybe, or education.

Were you addressing this to me? I said I thought the street lights looked corny. That's all. I live a few blocks from where they're going up and I'd just like to see something a little "classier," for lack of a better word. Not really that big of a deal.

[Raleighsfinest]

I'm actually very serious. Raleigh may be a city of 350,000, but it is entirely not large enough to support any else inside it's core besides the BB&T and Wachovia towers downtown. We seriously lack the infrastructure and means for becoming a more urban center. The money these carpetbagger city leaders of ours have wasted on building these silly projects, could easily be used to tear down that old fashioned, dilapitated, eyesore, of a city market we have on Blount st. A shopping center such as a typical Walmart would be much better suited for that area, considering that's where most people shop.

It's also pretty difficult having a speed bump such as downtown in the way, when you're trying to drive from the southern suburbs of Raleigh back up to the northern areas. I voted to make Fayettville st a functional freeway connecting both sides of the beltline, but nooooo waaay! The city council wouldn't have it.

Also if the city's police department would like to make car chases go much more smoothly. I'm totally for, turning a majority of city streets into cul de sacs. Try to get away now evil doer!

[Transplant]

I'm actually very serious. Raleigh may be a city of 350,000, but it is entirely not large enough to support any else inside it's core besides the BB&T and Wachovia towers downtown. We seriously lack the infrastructure and means for becoming a more urban center. The money these carpetbagger city leaders of ours have wasted on building these silly projects, could easily be used to tear down that old fashioned, dilapitated, eyesore, of a city market we have on Blount st. A shopping center such as a typical Walmart would be much better suited for that area, considering that's where most people shop.

It's also pretty difficult having a speed bump such as downtown in the way, when you're trying to drive from the southern suburbs of Raleigh back up to the northern areas. I voted to make Fayettville st a functional freeway connecting both sides of the beltline, but nooooo waaay! The city council wouldn't have it.

Also if the city's police department would like to make car chases go much more smoothly. I'm totally for, turning a majority of city streets into cul de sacs. Try to get away now evil doer!

I agree that infrastucture around DT needs to be improved. If South Saunders could be connected to Glenwood; if Capital could get an exit going to the east side of DT, a route down Wake Forrest Rd to Blount/Person (maybe this is already exists, I don't come down Capital much); if Western Blvd/MLK could get upgraded to limited access, DT would be much easier to get to. But these changes will take millions of $$ and will only start when development mandates them.

As for the rest rant I'm assuming sarcasm.... City market should not be torn down, but expanded. we need areas with different character.

[MR-2]

You know what you're right. We need to scrap all of the garbage our city leaders have approved and put together. We need to systematically eliminate these bozos because their competence level is that of an Alaskin

brino fish. You know what. I feel as though the whole Glenwood south idea is one of the biggest disasters in the history of Raleigh friggin North Carolina. We need a more traditonal and functional approach towards the plans that are implemented in our city's oldest infrastructure. Matter of fact, there ought not to be anymore plans approved, in the near, or distant future, for preservation reasons. I'm running for mayor next year and the first on my agenda is to put a hault on all downtown construction. My victory will oust liberal revitalization pansys such as Meeker and his band of ganja smoking hippies. Where is Mike Reagon when you need him!!!!!

That was very unnecessary. Glenwood south is one of the big successes of Revitalization efforts. The Quorum, the Convention Center, the American Tobacco District, Brightleaf Square, the RBC headquarters, the numerous condo developments going up, mixed-use zoning. I don't understand how any of those could be compared to suburban projects disguised as urban ones.

This is going to become a huge debate thread, and it's just about a few damn lights.

[MR-2]

The Soleil Center contains a smaller, replacement hotel and some condos. How will this suck business from downtown?

How will property values go down??? The replacement of a failed, vacant, outdated collection of afterthoughts with an iconic, new building and the accompanying reorganization of one of the most sought after malls in the world will make houses in the immediate area more enticing. Make that WAY more enticing.

Unfortunately not. People aren't going to look at it and say, "oh wow the business our area is generating." It will make selling homes in the area more difficult. If you were moving to a suburban house, and you had to choose between one on the farthest outskirts, with 540 access, clear skies, and a bigger yard, or a house that has a perpetual view of a single tower completely out of context, what would it be? Maybe if it were $150,000, it would seem like a good deal, but $300,000? $500,000? That's depreciation.

The luxury hotel will simply compete with others downtown. The luxury condos will do nothing. They're astronomically priced, and will also compete with the other condos in downtown that have similar alpine prices.

We're not going to get anywhere with this. We didn't in the other thread. Don't expect us to here.

[avery]

[quote name='MR-2' date='Jan 27 2006, 11:05 AM' post='314702'

We're not going to get anywhere with this. We didn't in the other thread. Don't expect us to here.

[ncwebguy]

I agree that infrastucture around DT needs to be improved. If South Saunders could be connected to Glenwood; if Capital could get an exit going to the east side of DT, a route down Wake Forrest Rd to Blount/Person (maybe this is already exists, I don't come down Capital much); if Western Blvd/MLK could get upgraded to limited access, DT would be much easier to get to. But these changes will take millions of $$ and will only start when development mandates them.

The problem is there isn't enough education about how the existing street grid is *already* connected.

To connect from South Saunders to Glenwood, take it all the way through downtown as McDowell, continue along Capital Blvd, take the Wade Avenue exit, merge into the right lane, take the ramp up, and voila! Glenwood Ave.

The Capital Blvd. exit you speak of already exists. Coming from the north, it is the exit right after the bowling alley and ABC store. Take a left, it is Wake Forest road south/east of Capitol, and Atlantic Ave north/west of there. It curves into Blount, passing north bound Person in the process.

MLK will never be limited access. There are older neighborhoods in that area that would be even harder to naivgate without access to that road. When it stops and Poole takes over, there are houses that front it, which would be a nightmare to realign. Western's access is pretty limited from Wilmington to Avent Ferry, with traffic signals only at the Saunders exit and Central Prison. They improved Western from Gorman to 440 a few years ago, and added a walkway south of the road between Avent Ferry and Gorman, which made it somewhat better but not great.

The New Bern/Edenton corridor is starting to pick up on the east edge of downtown, and is an ok balance of 4 lane throughway with traffic calming eleveation changes and stop lights.

The only traffic snarls occur on Capital/Dawson and McDowell, when the traffic lights are out of synch, or if streets are blocked off for parades, road races, festivals, etc. Even then downtown is easy to get into and out of to me, but I have taken the time to learn the street grid.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I won't defend him. He is truly crazy. Perhaps my definition of 'progressive' is off.

What should it constitute, specifically?

Not sure, I am nothing but a "Ex-Punk with an MBA" and I should see eye to eye with Progressive reform, but when I hear people who consider themselves "progressive" only to be just as close minded as the close minded people, it makes me walk away. Mike Regan and Bob Geary agree on many things, it just how they got to the point they differ on.

[Subway Scoundrel]

If you were moving to a suburban house, and you had to choose between one on the farthest outskirts, with 540 access, clear skies, and a bigger yard, or a house that has a perpetual view of a single tower completely out of context, what would it be? Maybe if it were $150,000, it would seem like a good deal, but $300,000? $500,000? That's depreciation.

The luxury hotel will simply compete with others downtown. The luxury condos will do nothing. They're astronomically priced, and will also compete with the other condos in downtown that have similar alpine prices.

We're not going to get anywhere with this. We didn't in the other thread. Don't expect us to here.

As far as being able to see the tower, the same thing could be said about Highwoods. Look over the trees and you can see the Highwood

[dmccall]

We're not going to get anywhere with this. We didn't in the other thread. Don't expect us to here.

YOU brought it up!!!

[dmccall]

Just in case you didn't watch, the City Council doesn't have enough info to vote on this project and will hold discussion until after Jaume Plensa presents his ideas for his much anticipated sculpture.

<rant>

Wouldn't it be great if someone on the Council or the Mayor would adopt a "Great City" attitude and get stuff like this DONE? I have an EXTREMELY hard time imagining all of this hand wringing occuring in Atlanta, Charlotte, or Nashville. THIS is how things in Raleigh have always gone. THIS is why developers have always been cool on doing neat things here. It all makes the easy passage of the GlenTree/Soleil center that much more suspicious.

Some Council members have obviously NOT done their homework on this project, much less read Raleighing, as some of their questions have already been answered in our previous articles. Had they read Raleighing they would know that the glass designer's website includes photos of his previous works.

http://www.corkmarcheschi.com/

Other council members want to see more artist renderings which show the structures on Fayetteville St. in a more "completed" state (including streetscape and the ultimate dream, occupied storefronts) than shown on previous renderings.

Personally this request looks more like an attempt to squeak out a new rendering that can be used to demonstrate Fayetteville Street's potential to potential tenants. It does not take an incredible imagination to envision 25-foot light fixtures at the street's main intersections.

More discussion on the fixtures will ensue after Jaume Plensa reports his ideas for his sculture for Fayetteville St. (This will likely be a redundant presentation by the sculpturers - didn't we already HAVE that presentation - In advance, I apologize to the artists. Raleigh has always found ways to make getting easy things done as difficult as possible). However his structure will not and should not have anything to do with the chandelier project. (just in case people - read CITY COUNCIL - want to do some homework on Jaume Plensa, HMMPH HMMPH, I'll get you started with an easy Google search:

http://tinyurl.com/c3s2q

It is time for the City Council to get on the ball and approve these structures and move on to the next stage of making a great move downtown Raleigh.</rant>

[Raleighsfinest]

Just in case you didn't watch, the City Council doesn't have enough info to vote on this project and will hold discussion until after Jaume Plensa presents his ideas for his much anticipated sculpture.

<rant>

Wouldn't it be great if someone on the Council or the Mayor would adopt a "Great City" attitude and get stuff like this DONE? I have an EXTREMELY hard time imagining all of this hand wringing occuring in Atlanta, Charlotte, or Nashville.

Some Council members have obviously NOT done their homework on this project, much less read Raleighing, as some of their questions have already been answered in our previous articles. Had they read Raleighing they would know that the glass designer's website includes photos of his previous works.

http://www.corkmarcheschi.com/

Other council members want to see more artist renderings which show the structures on Fayetteville St. in a more "completed" state (including streetscape and the ultimate dream, occupied storefronts) than shown on previous renderings.

Personally this request looks more like an attempt to squeak out a new rendering that can be used to demonstrate Fayetteville Street's potential to potential tenants. It does not take an in

incredible imagination to envision 25-foot light fixtures at the street's main intersections.

More discussion on the fixtures will ensue after Jaume Plensa reports his ideas for his sculture for Fayetteville St. (This will likely be a redundant presentation by the sculpturers - didn't we already HAVE that presentation - In advance, I apologize to the artists. Raleigh has always found ways to make getting easy things done as difficult as possible). However his structure will not and should not have anything to do with the chandelier project. (just in case people - read CITY COUNCIL - want to do some homework on Jaume Plensa, HMMPH HMMPH, I'll get you started with an easy Google search:

http://tinyurl.com/c3s2q

It is time for the City Council to get on the ball and approve these structures and move on to the next stage of making a great move downtown Raleigh.</rant>

You see this is the type of crap that sickens me. Why is this city like this. The chandelier idea, is a move towards taking part of DT Raleigh into the 21st century. This city is becoming the largest Mayberry in the US. I totally agree with your statements. I know the people I won't be voting for in the next election!

[Justin6882]

You've got to be kidding me -- there is NO NEED for something like this to drag on for months and months. This really makes me angry, and is precisely why I want to be on the city council one day. Businesses don't take this long to decide on things that faarrr more important than a few sculptures along a street. Give me a break.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Just in case you didn't watch, the City Council doesn't have enough info to vote on this project and will hold discussion until after Jaume Plensa presents his ideas for his much anticipated sculpture.

Ok, I am going to play devil's advocate here and ask what's wrong with waiting until we see the finished product? Or at least a real good rough draft. I believe that you can't go with what he "HAS" done in the past and assume that he isn't going to do something that the council will get called on the carpet for. Remember Raleigh is really JUST starting out,(downtown anyway). Take it slow, do it right, don't rock the boat. Those kind of things can and will come later, after we have some projects behind us. My two cents.. and thanks for not throwing tomatoes at me..

[DanRNC]

As I always have stated, the Raleigh town council is a bunch of backwater hick morons. The kicker is they aren't even paying for them. I'm sure if the lights were shaped like a Nascar vehicle they would have been approved.

"All dirt roads lead to Raleigh".