Heart of the Triad

[Hotlanta]

I thought it was interesting to start a forum about this because of all the media this area has been getting. If you are not familiar with this project this is an area that is above High Point, to the east of Winston-Salem, and to the west of Greensboro that is aimed to have planned residential and commercial area along with biotech and research areas. The goal of this is to be a rivalry of Research Triangle Park in the Triangle Area, but have it planned better with walkable sidewalks, mass-transit, and everything within walking distance so that you don't need a car. Plans are calling for a new north/south highway and a new east/west road. Over the next few months, I hope this will be an established place where we can share updates and news stories and most of all our opinions. So what do you think needs to be done to get this started? Will this succeed if planned accordingly? Would you buy a house here? What kind of shopping do you think this area will have? Will it ever happen?

Some related stories:

Citizens discuss Heart of the Triad's potential

Heart of Triad uses could be at odds

'Heart of Triad' to study its development options

'Landmines' may lurk in Heart of Triad

[SouthJersey7]

Sounds nice and all but I can't see it happening. I'll bet the farm that it will end up a tangle of sprawl just like RTP. Much better would be to direct this development into PTRP or downtown Greensboro. $0.02

[SouthJersey7]

From the 'Landmines' article:

# Some who live in the Colfax- Kernersville area asked that the steering committee include a resident to sit among the representatives from local government, chambers of commerce and corporations. The request was denied.

# Three regional businesses -- BB&T, Time-Warner and Duke Power -- were given seats on the steering committee because they contributed $50,000 each to underwriting the $400,000 consultant's fee for the land-use study. Thus, some critics say, residents couldn't get a seat at the table, but corporations were allowed to buy theirs.

Sounds kind of shady to me.

[Hotlanta]

I believe citizens should have a voice for the project but to have one on the committee will delay the project and cause too much fussiness. It does sound a bit shady and I think it should be superheaded by our governments and not big time companies.

Edited February 5, 2006 by Hotlanta

[cityboi]

I dont know if this will be just another research park project. I think the goal is to do something unique that will give the Triad a brand image much like what RTP has done for the Triangle. I dont see Winston-Salem supporting a research park in the middle of the Triad because their focus is on Piedmont Triad Research Park Downtown. If some of the land will be used for research related projects, it will likely be biomanufacturing or hitech manufacturing facilities such as Dell. I do think the Triad has a golden opportunity here and this proposed development could help push regional rail. Regional rail should be incorporated in the project. and should be a very important piece of the puzzle. There are more than 50,000 thousands acres to work with so there is enough land to use a lot of imagination. What ever happens here, it cant just be office parks, homes and shopping centers. Also RTP has already been done. I do believe there should be a major entertainment component that would draw people from around the state. Im not sure what that would be/ It would also help increase ridership on regional rail. They use to do that with trolleys when they first came out about a hundred years ago. Alot of people didnt use trolleys so communties built amusement parks and leisure parks at the end of trolley line to increase ridership. A similar concept could be done with regional rail and the Heart of the Triad project. maybe it wont be an amusement park but some other major entertainment attraction.

There should also be a major educational component. Students from universities and colleges from Greesnboro, Winston-Salem and High Point could use the commuter rail to commute to a centralized educational campus (Inter-University) of some sort. Maybe even combine businesses and companies within the educational campus so students can have "real world" learning experiences and not just class room / text book learning. stundents would then be able to make a little money to help pay for the education they are getting through "real world" experiences in their field. That would be a very unique company/university partnership concept that I think should be considered. The educational campus could include business/law firms, theater and filmaking companies, engineering/architectural enginering firms, research firms and hitech manufacturing companies. Basically the kind of comanies centered around the Triad's economy. When students graduate from their college wether its UNCG, NC A&T, Wake Forest or the NC School of the Arts, they will have a working experience in their field and will have a better resume than students who attended college in other areas outside the Triad. Imagine a student just getting out of college having produced an independent film that made it on national tv stations such as Bravo or a graduate from NC A&T having aready worked an an architectural engineering firm. Speaking of engineering, NC A&T has a partnership with NASA, and A&T is actually working on innovations that will be used by NASA. What is NASA had an office in this educational campus. Basically this would be an internship educational campus or an educational business park. A partnership of the Triad's universities of this type would raise the stature of those colleges and they would see an increase in enrollment. These are very big ideas, but so was the idea of a major research park in the middle of the Triangle more than 40 years ago.

major retail/residential villages (not sprawl type development) could be centered around rail stops. That would help ridership with regional rail as well.

heart of the triad map

Edited February 5, 2006 by cityboi

[twincity]

im sorry but im dont like this idea. i would rather see this attention be focused on the cores of greensboro, high point and winston-salem. the last thing the triad needs is a huge area devoted to sprawl.

Edited February 5, 2006 by twincity

[cityboi]

I think we can do both. We can build strong downtowns and create a development that will finally have the Triad cities working together. more trust nedds to be built amongst the Triad cities. Im tired of seeing the cities fighting and competing against each other. If we want to be recognized on a national level the cities will have to work together and the I think the Heart of the Triad proposal can do that if done right.

Edited February 5, 2006 by cityboi

[Hotlanta]

I think we can do both. We can build strong downtowns and create a development that will finally have the Triad cities working together. more trust nedds to be built amongst the Triad cities. Im tired of seeing the cities fighting and competing against each other. If we want to be recognized on a national level the cities will have to work together and the I think the Heart of the Triad proposal can do that if done right.

I agree with you! I like your idea twincity but if we don't develop this area accordingly, it will just end up looking like one big mess. This is a big step! As cityboi said," We can do both."

[yadkinv]

It's a nice idea that would be great if it worked. However, that map looks like mostly Greensboro or more specifically the Greensboro Airport Development Area. Also, whatever is done regionally basically only promotes the city with the most population because it's always first on the list, and gets the notoriety nationwide. Solving this problem in similar places natiowide is probably what Census had in mind when Greensboro and Winston-Salem were separated into two CSAs (I think that's what they are called?). What a conundrum; I hope they work it out.

[intcvlcphlga]

I'm with Twin City on this one. The area is largely Greensboro and Kernersville already rather than W-S and High Point. It seems very disjointed and ill-planned at this point and would probably have the result of turning Kernersville into a sprawling mess like Cary. It is With the arrival of Dell and FedEx, you're already going to get large warehouse and manufacturing facilities and I think it's important to ensure that any development in the area is well-planned, but that area shouldn't be the focus of the three cities. Winston-Salem should focus on continuing to develop PTRP and energizing downtown as a walkable mixed-use core, High Point should focus on retaining as much of the furniture industry and market business as possible, etc.

As far as building a central campus for all of the universities, I'm not sure that there is the need for it. Who is going to fund the construction of it? Are the businesses that would locate there supposed to move to the campus thus abandoning another part of the Triad? There is already a significant investment on the part of the city of W-S, Wake Forest, WSSU and NCSA on PTRP and their own campuses with the same thing happening in Greensboro. Of the three corporations that have a seat at the table, only one, BB&T, is a Triad based company. Besides, the two leaders of the project are both in commercial real estate which presents a conflict of interest.

[Hotlanta]

I think the main goal of this should be to not develop it all in one stage and year. When we start seeing more growth in this area I think it should be planned according to what maps they draw up. I would like this area to focus on organized living and shopping instead of manufactuing and biotech. We already have enough areas in this region that already fufill that purpose and I don't think we need another one. The areas are competing against each other and there needs to be something that brings them together. G'boro already wants to develop their own research park off of Lee St in the east and Winston already has PTRP. We saw the bidding war between the two when Dell came to the area. If we try to create another biotech area then that will slow progress on PTRP. I think this area's main focus should be recreation and smart growth because even I wonder what there is to do in this area.

[krazeeboi]

Solving this problem in similar places natiowide is probably what Census had in mind when Greensboro and Winston-Salem were separated into two CSAs .

They are two MSAs (Greensoboro-High Point and Winston-Salem). Greensoboro--Winston-Salem--High Point is one CSA.

[cityboi]

If they do decide to do research in the Heart of the Triad, it may be some what successful because the park would be very close to related biotech and hitech manufacturing facilities and FedEx. A location like this is actually better for a research park than a Lee Street location in Greensboro and even better than the PTRP location But I strongly urge that the Triad does not try and copy RTP. There are enough research parks being built around the country. Its a saturated market now. Its not a new idea any more. For one thing a centralized research park would be in heavy competition with PTRP and the parks planned in Greensboro.

Edited February 6, 2006 by cityboi

[twincity]

I'm with Twin City on this one. The area is largely Greensboro and Kernersville already rather than W-S and High Point. It seems very disjointed and ill-planned at this point and would probably have the result of turning Kernersville into a sprawling mess like Cary. It is With the arrival of Dell and FedEx, you're already going to get large warehouse and manufacturing facilities and I think it's important to ensure that any development in the area is well-planned, but that area shouldn't be the focus of the three cities. Winston-Salem should focus on continuing to develop PTRP and energizing downtown as a walkable mixed-use core, High Point should focus on retaining as much of the furniture industry and market business as possible, etc.

As far as building a central campus for all of the universities, I'm not sure that there is the need for it. Who is going to fund the construction of it? Are the businesses that would locate there supposed to move to the campus thus abandoning another part of the Triad? There is already a significant investment on the part of the city of W-S, Wake Forest, WSSU and NCSA on PTRP and their own campuses with the same thing happening in Greensboro. Of the three corporations that have a seat at the table, only one, BB&T, is a Triad based company. Besides, the two leaders of the project are both in commercial real estate which presents a conflict of interest.

thank you. I remember when this was first proposed. ironically, it was right after PTRP started its expansion with the groundbreaking of Research Facility One. if im not mistaken, it was leaders from Guilford County that came up with the idea of having a research/business campus between the Forsyth/Guilford lines. the map that cityboi posted says it all. look at where most of the development would be! i would much rather forsyth pull out of the proposal and let guilford develop this area in the western part of the county. they could even give it the title as "largest research campus in the triad". W-S should ONLY be focusing on PTRP...since we now know that a strong effort needs to occur to keep the 30,000 job promise.

this area will not benefit W-S at all, but mostly Kernersville/Guilford County. this is the same scenario with "Piedmont Triad International"...yea right. if ever possible, i will fly out of smith reynolds from now on. we have one low cost carrier so far. if 3 or 4 come on board then we're good. i know it may be hard for non W-S residents to understand, but its odd flying out of an airport that serves your city, and you are not well represented in ads or even the airport code.

I cant speak for Greensboro but, in and around downtown Winston-Salem is seeing a healthy amount of development and i think a huge park with cheaper land prices could slow down growth in our core. perfect example: theoretically, look at what RTP did to the downtowns of Durham and Raleigh. why not let these towns develop naturally, Kernersville is off to a good start with forming its own identity. Union Cross is about to be annexed by W-S. Colfax is positioned to grow just by its location. all unincorporated areas could just stay green.

[Tre 4]

You are right twin city.

How much does it cost to fly out of smith reynolds

[cityboi]

if you look at the map closely you can see that it benefits Winston-Salem. Just directly east and southeast of the city limits. That large chunk in Guilford wont only benefit Greensboro but northern High Point as well. As a matter of fact, much of the land south of I-40 on this map is High Point territory. But we shouldnt cast judgement until we know exactly what the plan is. Right now its just an idea to create something that will give the Triad a brand image. It might be entertainment/leisure oriented, it could be anything. But the concept is getting support from leaders in all 3 Triad cities not just Greensboro.

Edited February 6, 2006 by cityboi

[sax184]

From one of the articles:

Initial possibilities for the region, which would have "activity centers" located around the Dell facility in Winston-Salem and the Sandy Ridge Road corridor where I-40 and Business 40 intersect, include a new north/south highway and an east/west roadway to help with any traffic issues. McKinney said the goal is not to create the traffic problems associated with Research Triangle Park.

You can't build your way out of congestion. You just can't. All four of the articles at the beginning of this thread, as far as I could tell, do not mention commuter rail at all.

Betting on Fedex is a real problem when you consider this graph:

World Oil Production and Discovery

[cityboi]

Im sure the commuter rail will work itself in the plan. Several of the P.A.R.T. (Piedmont Authority for Regional Transportation) members are involved or serve on the Heart of the Triad committee. Commuter rail, in my opinion would be extremely important to anything thats planned for Heart of the Triad.

Edited February 6, 2006 by cityboi

[Hotlanta]

You are right twin city.

How much does it cost to fly out of smith reynolds

Actually, Smith Reynolds was planned at one time to be the Triad's sole international airport. It was at one time but when others wanted to build in Greensboro the people who ran Smith Reynolds didn't invest enough in the airport and that is why PTI took over.

[yadkinv]

Thanks TwinCity; that's what I was implying, but you did much better.

[cityboi]

Actually, Smith Reynolds was planned at one time to be the Triad's sole international airport. It was at one time but when others wanted to build in Greensboro the people who ran Smith Reynolds didn't invest enough in the airport and that is why PTI took over.

Thats just like I-73. origionally I-73 was suppose to go through W-S and not Greensboro. But a Guilford County leader lobbied to have the I-73 route move to Greensboro instead of W-S and he was successful. For a brief period of time that made city leaders in W-S mad but then I-74 was added and W-S got I-74 instead of I-73

Edited February 7, 2006 by cityboi

[twincity]

actually, the triad had 2 airports...friendly in greensboro and smith reynolds in winston-salem. the triad wanted to build one central airport to serve all three cities and at that time, guilford county was the central location. thats they only reason why the won the battle. location was the deciding factor.

Edited February 7, 2006 by twincity

[Hotlanta]

Plus the investment in PTI but you pretty much covered it.

[Tre 4]

I personally think Greensboro gets what it wants and thats not really that fair I think.

A lot of times Winston-Salem/Forsyth County is left out of a lot of things like the PTI International airport thats never says that much about W-S and the triad as a whole. I would have like to see PTI built on the line of Forsyth/Guilford County even through its pretty darn close already. I wish Smith Reynolds will grow as a large Airport to support the Northwest triad and piedmont.

Edited February 7, 2006 by Tre 4

[sax184]

With peak oil coming, many airports will close in the US. PTI is the major in NC most likely to die first, and is already doing so.

On 1/16/2006, the Triad Business Journal reported that flights are down 4% at PTI.