Heart of the Triad

[Hotlanta]

With peak oil coming, many airports will close in the US. PTI is the major in NC most likely to die first, and is already doing so.

On 1/16/2006, the Triad Business Journal reported that flights are down 4% at PTI.

Wouldn't Wilmington's be the first to go?

[sax184]

Wouldn't Wilmington's be the first to go?

Sure, but I was considering MAJOR airports. NC only has 3.

[Jerseyman4]

Id like to see a Research Triad Park built. It would bring so many high paying jobs to the area which outweighs the bad (growing traffic volumes). This should bring closer relations to Winston and Greensboro because according to the maps, it will be in Guilford and Forsyth Counties.

The Triad will then be in REAL competetion to the Triangle (there RTP) and the nation.

[Tre 4]

Id like to see a Research Triad Park built. It would bring so many high paying jobs to the area which outweighs the bad (growing traffic volumes). This should bring closer relations to Winston and Greensboro because according to the maps, it will be in Guilford and Forsyth Counties.

The Triad will then be in REAL competetion to the Triangle (there RTP) and the nation.

Not really because Greensboro will get it's name Stamped on it

.

Edited February 8, 2006 by Tre 4

[Hotlanta]

Not really because Greensboro will get it's name Stamped on it

.

I don't get it?

[cityboi]

I personally dont think plans for Heart of the Triad are bold enough. It looks like ordinary sprawl to me. The plan outlines retail and a regional shopping center. That doesnt sound like something that will give the Triad a brand image like RTP did for the Triangle. The last thing we need is to have Greensboro and Winston-Salem sprawled together with big box retailers and shopping centers. I also dont think we should build a research park there. The market is becoming saturated with research parks and the Triad wouldnt see the same success the Triangle has seen. Besides Winston-Salem already has a research park downtown and would likely not support a regional research park that would compete with their downtown research park. As for entertainment, a proposed auditorium doesnt sound all that entertaining to me and it would compete with facilities already in Greensboro and Winson-Salem. If they are going to have entertainment as a component, than it needs to be large scale like some sort of entertainment complex that could even include an amusement park and a MAJOR outdoor amphitheater to attract big name music artists.

[DigitalSky]

Do you have a link to the proposals?

[DCB]

I dunno. I'm cautiously optimistic after looking at the early proposals.

http://www.partnc.org/images/HOT-forum-PPT.pdf

http://www.partnc.org/images/HOT-general-PPT.pdf

[Creasy336]

The heart of Triad does seem like the perfect opportunity to have a designed city center for "Greenston-Point" . These opportunities do not occur often. I believe they should strive something new as far as research is involved Winston-Salem already has the PTRP and RTP would be about 80 miles away. As long as the HOT project leaves room for some sort of mass transit corridors and has the potential for some highrise development then i'm all for it. I agree that the auditorium does not sound exciting at all. Instead their should be some sort of park with amusmant park rides similar to a small carnival (Ferris Wheel, Carousel, Miniature Train, etc.. ) adjacent to an entertainment venue. London and Chicago have amusement areas in their downtowns with great sucess.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Creasy336

[blburton]

Even if a large scale entertainment complex is built, it would probably shut down the Greensboro Coliseum or LJVM in WS. An amusement park would work as long as there was visibility from an interstate highway, but Carowinds is only 90 minutes away. My problem with the HOT is that nothing out there is close. FedEx at one end and Dell is at the other end of the area. Nothing is really in the middle as far as major businesses to truly tie the 2 areas together. The HOT is a convenient area in that you're a short drive from interstate highways, the airport, and the Triad cities. RTP is successful, but the buttefly effect (overcrowded 2 lane roads, suburbia, Cary going from a pop of 10K then to over 107K now) of it was completely unforeseen in 1959 which is its disadvantage.

My opinion as far as planning goes is that road infrastructure should be taken care of first... widening, addding, or even removing current roads to leave large tracts of land available for businesses, etc making for easy and convenient to major highways. This would never happen of course!!! It would be nice, though.

My hope was something like Atlantic Station in Atlanta.

http://www.atlanticstation.com/home.php

It is a development that provides shopping, restaurants, entertainment, work, living, gyms, etc, etc, etc all within walking distance. But in the HOT, the selling point for the development could be its central location and relative seclusion (not in the middle of downtown or suburbia, less fighting traffic, crowds for shopping etc).

But......... who will move to this place if it were built in the HOT???????

I personally dont think plans for Heart of the Triad are bold enough. It looks like ordinary sprawl to me. The plan outlines retail and a regional shopping center. That doesnt sound like something that will give the Triad a brand image like RTP did for the Triangle. The last thing we need is to have Greensboro and Winston-Salem sprawled together with big box retailers and shopping centers. I also dont think we should build a research park there. The market is becoming saturated with research parks and the Triad wouldnt see the same success the Triangle has seen. Besides Winston-Salem already has a research park downtown and would likely not support a regional research park that would compete with their downtown research park. As for entertainment, a proposed auditorium doesnt sound all that entertaining to me and it would compete with facilities already in Greensboro and Winson-Salem. If they are going to have entertainment as a component, than it needs to be large scale like some sort of entertainment complex that could even include an amusement park and a MAJOR outdoor amphitheater to attract big name music artists.

Edited April 5, 2006 by blburton

[blburton]

Oh, and this little bit about "the Unknown Triad" in one of those links. My assumption was that the presenter discussed how the Triad is in close ranks with metro area populations of more well recognized national cities such as Austin, New Orleans, Nashville, and Salt Lake City (i think the source may be a couple of years old as it has the Triangle behind the Triad in population), but people from other states have never heard of Greensboro or Winston-Salem... and know High-Point because of Fantasia. Yes, these individual cities are larger and may have a larger metropolitan area, but as mentioned in some other posts, the 3 cities need to work together and encourage smart growth within the HOT to make the "Triad" and its cities known nationally as a major metropolitan area.

I dunno. I'm cautiously optimistic after looking at the early proposals.

http://www.partnc.org/images/HOT-forum-PPT.pdf

http://www.partnc.org/images/HOT-general-PPT.pdf

[cityboi]

Even if a large scale entertainment complex is built, it would probably shut down the Greensboro Coliseum or LJVM in WS. An amusement park would work as long as there was visibility from an interstate highway, but Carowinds is only 90 minutes away. My problem with the HOT is that nothing out there is close. FedEx at one end and Dell is at the other end of the area. Nothing is really in the middle as far as major businesses to truly tie the 2 areas together. The HOT is a convenient area in that you're a short drive from interstate highways, the airport, and the Triad cities. RTP is successful, but the buttefly effect (overcrowded 2 lane roads, suburbia, Cary going from a pop of 10K then to over 107K now) of it was completely unforeseen in 1959 which is its disadvantage.

My opinion as far as planning goes is that road infrastructure should be taken care of first... widening, addding, or even removing current roads to leave large tracts of land available for businesses, etc making for easy and convenient to major highways. This would never happen of course!!! It would be nice, though.

My hope was something like Atlantic Station in Atlanta.

http://www.atlanticstation.com/home.php

It is a development that provides shopping, restaurants, entertainment, work, living, gyms, etc, etc, etc all within walking distance. But in the HOT, the selling point for the development could be its central location and relative seclusion (not in the middle of downtown or suburbia, less fighting traffic, crowds for shopping etc).

But......... who will move to this place if it were built in the HOT???????

I think an amusement park could work in the Triad despite th area's proximity to Carowinds. Paramount King's Dominion and Busch Gardens in Virginia are barely 100 miles apart too.

[sax184]

This plan is not looking good. Everybody's drawing lines on the map for roads and committing funding. Where's the commitment to transit? Look for lip service to rule the day unless some people step up and demand something other than business as usual.

[cityboi]

In addition to a Major league Soccer stadium being built between Greensboro and Winston-Salem, there is an idea floating around that a golf course for the PGA Tournament should be built there as well. That would mean that the tournament would no longer belong soley to Greensboro but the whole Triad and we could see Dell sponsor the tounrey.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...C0101/604080306

[jjasonham]

That would be absolutely fabulous. Finally, the Dynamo (women's soccer) would have somewhere professional to play. Professional soccer would be great. It is absolutely perfect for the area. I went to NW Guilford, and they had a great soccer team...they also have a Lacrosse team. One of only a few in Guilford and Forsyth. The proximity to the field is perfect.

As a side note, they just announced some National Amateur Golf Tournament will be played at Bryan Park.

I wish they could have some kind of rail service linking the area with WS, GSO, HP downtowns. Isnt there already some kind of rail service proposed from A & T to Hanes Mall?

Edited April 8, 2006 by jjasonham

[cityboi]

That would be absolutely fabulous. Finally, the Dynamo (women's soccer) would have somewhere professional to play. Professional soccer would be great. It is absolutely perfect for the area. I went to NW Guilford, and they had a great soccer team...they also have a Lacrosse team. One of only a few in Guilford and Forsyth. The proximity to the field is perfect.

As a side note, they just announced some National Amateur Golf Tournament will be played at Bryan Park.

I wish they could have some kind of rail service linking the area with WS, GSO, HP downtowns. Isnt there already some kind of rail service proposed from A & T to Hanes Mall?

yes there is a commuter rail plan in place and it would definatetly link the heart of the Triad with all the downtowns. The A&T to hanes Mall connection will be the first line.

Maybe the Triad can't support the NBA, NHL or major League Baseball but the region can support major league soccer. The sport is insanely popular in the Triad and the region happens to be a fast growing area for hispanics. Soccer or fut'bol is very popular among hispanics. I magine the stadium would be built on the Guilford/Forsyth County Line. Its also great to have a PGA golf course as part of the sports complex. I say make it more than a golf course. Make it a resort like Grandover. Then build an amusement park next to the property.

Edited April 8, 2006 by cityboi

[DCMetroRaleigh]

I'm sorry, but the notion of building a professional sports arena or stadium outside of downtown is insane. It is not 1985 anymore.

[cityboi]

Heart of the Triad plan could have $313 million net impact

http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2...tml?jst=b_ln_hl

Its interesting. The proposal includes a heritage museum for (Textiles, Furniture and Tobbaco). Greensboro's PGA event was also mention in the proposal.

The event would be relocated to a new course at the heart of the Triad and would be part of a sports venue district anchored by a major league soccer stadium. The stadium would also be used for state, college (ACC, NCAA) and national soccer tournaments.

The Charette mentions that a resort town center could be a part of the Heart of The Triad and could include time sharing residential housing a conference center, hotels, retail/food/entertainment.

Streetcars were also mentioned as being a possibilty in some of the urban developments proposed for heart of the Triad.

The heart of The Triad would be divided into district (retail/entertainment district, mixed-use district, Sports Venue district, employment district for companies, research and large scale hitech (biotech/nanotech) manufacturing facilities, ect....

The retail district would include a regional mall that would likely be larger than Four Season or Hanes Mall. Also retail villages and recreational retail such as Bass Pro Shop. The planned commuter rail would tie the Heart of The Triad development with the cities of Greensboro and Winston-Salem. A major commuter rail station would be built near the sports venue district.

The heart of the Triad would include an International Technology Center, Combined University Center and specialized State/Federal Facilties.

here is a link to the Charette

http://www.partnc.org/images/HOTCharretteSummaryFinal.pdff]http://www.partnc.org/images/HOTCharretteSummaryFinal.pdf

Edited December 6, 2006 by cityboi

[DanRNC]

This will never fly. Who is going to fund all this? The plan seems to focus on generalities and has a "little bit of this and a little bit of that" going on.

[cityboi]

This will never fly. Who is going to fund all this? The plan seems to focus on generalities and has a "little bit of this and a little bit of that" going on.

I think mainly private developers would fund these projects. The only thing I question is the Major League Soccer stadium.

I think its a good plan if done right. I dont think the planners of this project are going to use the suburban sprawl model. Keep in mind, this isn't something thats going to happen over night.

Edited December 6, 2006 by cityboi

[nowensone]

I agree with that, it does look compact and structured well from the site docs, but the projections of over 100K residents and nearly 150K jobs seem unrealistic, basically building a city from scratch. Then again, they are doing just this in Arizona and Nevada right now, so not so far fetched I guess, though is not a mentality you really see in NC.

[DanRNC]

The problem is that most of this development requires public money-for federal and state facilities like EPA, MCNC, NCBC, etc. Ok, so you have to beg the feds and state for money for facilities they don't even need but would boost the economy of the Triad-not much of an argument. Next you need money for all the museums, fields, arenas which would most likely come from local taxpayers-more begging there. I don't even understand the point of this proposal-its just a gamish of stuff like I said. Hey nanotech is hot, lets build a nanotech center. Hey biotech is hot, lets build a biotech center. Hey, hot dogs are hot lets build a hot dog factory. There is no strategic plan or viability studies for any of this. Its like, the Triangle opened a China Center, that means we can open a Indian Center. The Triangle has EPA, MCNC, etc. we can open ABC and XYZ-thats the flawed rationale that plagues the simplistic and naive thinking behind this stuff.

[cityboi]

The problem is that most of this development requires public money-for federal and state facilities like EPA, MCNC, NCBC, etc. Ok, so you have to beg the feds and state for money for facilities they don't even need but would boost the economy of the Triad-not much of an argument. Next you need money for all the museums, fields, arenas which would most likely come from local taxpayers-more begging there. I don't even understand the point of this proposal-its just a gamish of stuff like I said. Hey nanotech is hot, lets build a nanotech center. Hey biotech is hot, lets build a biotech center. Hey, hot dogs are hot lets build a hot dog factory. There is no strategic plan or viability studies for any of this. Its like, the Triangle opened a China Center, that means we can open a Indian Center. The Triangle has EPA, MCNC, etc. we can open ABC and XYZ-thats the flawed rationale that plagues the simplistic and naive thinking behind this stuff.

I think the vast majority of this is doable. A few of the proposals seem like pie in the sky like the soccer stadium. But lets keep this in perspective. Much of it is compact mixed-use residential, retail, recreation, entertainment land set aside for companies and industries. That doesnt seem hard for the Triad to swallow, as as long as these things are funded privately. But I agree with the funding for stadiums and things like that. Im not sure where funding would come from for a big league soccer stadium but maybe they'll figure out a way to do it like Greensboro did with its ballpark, I dont know.

here is Toyota Park in Chicago. This is the kind of stadium we would expect to see in the Triad.

Edited December 6, 2006 by cityboi

[nowensone]

The problem is that most of this development requires public money-for federal and state facilities like EPA, MCNC, NCBC, etc. Ok, so you have to beg the feds and state for money for facilities they don't even need but would boost the economy of the Triad-not much of an argument. Next you need money for all the museums, fields, arenas which would most likely come from local taxpayers-more begging there. I don't even understand the point of this proposal-its just a gamish of stuff like I said. Hey nanotech is hot, lets build a nanotech center. Hey biotech is hot, lets build a biotech center. Hey, hot dogs are hot lets build a hot dog factory. There is no strategic plan or viability studies for any of this. Its like, the Triangle opened a China Center, that means we can open a Indian Center. The Triangle has EPA, MCNC, etc. we can open ABC and XYZ-thats the flawed rationale that plagues the simplistic and naive thinking behind this stuff.

This project may be unrealistic, I don't really know, though I doubt it has anything to do with "Triangle envy", which many of your posts imply in one form or another. People in the Triad as best as I can tell don't really care about the Triangle in that way, and don't feel that they are competing, likely because up until recently the affluence, numbers, etc. was in the Triad. Thats not bait, by the way, for an argument or a bunch of comparisons, you guys have had the honors recently, true enough, and did so in NC's early history as well. Just say that these planners are morons.

Edited December 6, 2006 by nowensone

[DanRNC]

First off, allusions were made to the Triangle in the charette itself so I won't even go down that road. Second of all, yes, the planners are morons-end of point.