Heart of the Triad

[krazeeboi]

I think something needs to happen between the Triad cities. otherwise we will see a sea of big box retailers and sprawl.

Strong regional cooperation would take care of that. It doesn't require something as complicated as the HOT plan. As I said elsewhere, just sensibly plan for the development that would naturally come to the proposed HOT area instead of forcing stuff that would detract from the Triad downtowns.

[cityboi]

Strong regional cooperation would take care of that. It doesn't require something as complicated as the HOT plan. As I said elsewhere, just sensibly plan for the development that would naturally come to the proposed HOT area instead of forcing stuff that would detract from the Triad downtowns.

We should probably move these posts to the HOT thread.

btw I dont like the way each post is shown as a link

[coastalmindset]

intcvlcphlga

I'm not on board with this whole "HOT" thing. While I agree with the notion of sensible planning for future developement of the geographic center of the Triad, the urban focus should be on the downtowns of W-S, HP and GSO rather than trying to create an urban feel in an area whose employment base is and will likely continue to be focused on logistics which are inherently non-urban, low density, single-use programs - ie. shipping (FedEx), storage (warehouses) and manufacturing (Dell). And, the proposed Triad Tower, regardless of its mixed-use program, will do nothing (as it is currently designed) to promote an urban feel because at the end of the day, it will be an out-of-place tall tower in a sea of parking. To echo many other posters on here, it should be built "downtown."

While I agree that the jobs being brought into the area are similar to what has caused us problems in the recent past, ie manufacturing, I don't see any of the cities doing anything to change the focus on new employers. Specifically in Greensboro we keep building office space when we have a 20% vacancy rate in existing office space. The city needs to slow down that growth and work harder to bring in employers to fill that space, much of which is downtown. There have been no major corporations or even mid size companies that have opened or move their operation into the downtown (I'm speaking of Greensboro) area recently but the area around Triad Tower continues to see the highest level of employment growth in the city. If downtown can shift its focus from over development to recruiting financially solid employers then I might shift my thinking but you have to look at the facts. There is a steady growth of jobs, retail and restaurant real estate continues to grow as does residential real estate in this proposed HOT area and until the downtowns can catch up putting all you eggs in one basket does nothing to enhance the triad as a community.

[krazeeboi]

btw I dont like the way each post is shown as a link

[cityboi]

I truly believe light rail could be the key to jump starting compact, well planned developments in the Heart of the Triad. Over the weekend a 9 mile light rail section opened to riders in Charlotte from I-485 to uptown. There are 15 rail stops and in a qaurter of a mile section, there are plans for developments in the billions of dollars. Its been proven time after time the passenger rail lines spur development because people want to live, work and play near the lines. As gas continues to increase, more and more people would take public transportation. I think H.O.T and P.A.R.T. need to really work together to put together a light rail system connecting Greensboro, High Point, Winston-Salem and eventually Burilington. I think light rail would attract the right kind of development in the Heart of the Triad. I also think there should be a focus on streetcars in Greensboro, Winston-Salem and even communities and neighborhoods in between as population increases in between the cities. Streetcar lines also spur devellopment.

Edited November 25, 2007 by cityboi

[krazeeboi]

Commuter rail works best for what you're proposing here in terms of linking the Triad cities through transit.

[luckofthedraw]

If anyone is interested, one of the co-chairs of "The Heart of the Triad" will be speaking about the project, it's latest developments, and growth trends for the Triad. The meeting is for the Triad Real Estate Investors Association, but the first meeting is free. It'll be held at the lower level of the Kernersville library on 2/21/08 at 7PM.

[JerseyBoy]

Thank you for the info and welcome to the forum luckofthedraw! I'll have to see what events I have coming up this week, but I'm going to try to attend.

[JerseyBoy]

HOT's new planning committee will meet at 8:30 a.m. March 19 at the PART office, 7800 Airport Center Drive, Suite 101, Greensboro.

The new committee is one of three new groups formed after the original steering committee fell through last fall. The group's members are: Bruce Davis, Guilford County commissioners; John Faircloth, High Point City Council; Joycelyn Johnson, Winston-Salem City Council; Richard Linville, Forsyth County commissioners; Robbie Perkins, Greensboro City Council; Ray Combs, Oak Ridge mayor; and Dana Caudill Jones, Kernersville aldermen.

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories...ml?surround=lfn

I find it interesting how most of the positions seem to be from Guilford County. Does Forsyth not care about HOT?

[yadkinv]

I think this has been mostly a Guilford/Greensboro project from the beginning - isn't 60 - 70 percent in Guilford County?

[krazeeboi]

I find it interesting how most of the positions seem to be from Guilford County. Does Forsyth not care about HOT?

Maybe they're aware that it's not the best of ideas.

[twincity]

youre right Yadvinv. HOT is in response to PTRP. at this point, Forsyth should only be focused on PTRP.

[JerseyBoy]

I think this has been mostly a Guilford/Greensboro project from the beginning - isn't 60 - 70 percent in Guilford County?

You could be right, but Forsyth has a significant portion of land involved with this project as well. I can't wait to see how these leaders will try to make this area the next Atlanta by implementing all the wrong policies.

[suburban george3]

I personally would support a complete 'pull-out' of support for this project by Forsyth Co. officials. This is a bad plan.

While I would support a plan to 'guide' development in this area over the next few decades, I don't think we should support 'sprawling' development that has been presented in many plans for this project.

Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem should each focus on developing denser downtown cores and inner ring neighborhoods as energy prices are going to dictate new realities in how we plan our urban areas.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Amen suburban George. This is not 1965. Wise people should know better. The area needs to concentrate on fostering vibrant exising center cities, not creating suburban competition for it.

[krazeeboi]

Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem should each focus on developing denser downtown cores and inner ring neighborhoods as energy prices are going to dictate new realities in how we plan our urban areas.

Absolutely.

[yadkinv]

Don't waste any more hard to find funds; put the money where it's really needed.

[CapeFearRiver10]

So when is construction?

[JerseyBoy]

So when is construction?

I believe HOT is still in the planning stages. The goal of this is to create a master plan for the area so that the area doesn't turn into a mess of sprawl (which is technically what they'll end up encouraging anyway). Construction will not be carried out by the leaders of HOT, but by developers who propose projects that fit in with the guidelines HOT has set.

[ChiefJoJo]

Taking a quick look at the preferred master plan for HOT, I'm going to have to agree with transitman that this is not a very smart plan with respect to sustainability or strategic planning. Of all the pages in the plan, very little is dedicated to transit... seemingly an afterthought. They even contemplated a new freeway in this area--as if the Triad doesn't have enough freeways on the drawing board already. I'm afraid this is business as usual planning when you develop several thousand acres with up tens of thousands of jobs and homes served by a single rail stop and a few bus routes thrown in for good measure. This is not a smart plan at all. I wish local planners would learn what not to do from RTP and instead focus on developing each of the downtowns, and connect them with transit service. Building HOT will create unecessary competition for PTRP and the downtowns. This massive greenfield development model does not makes sense in an era of $4+ gas and dwindling fiscal resources.

My recommendation would be to:

(1)limit development in this HOT area preserve some open space and greenfields that we'll be wishing we had in 30 years. Why not a large preserve nature park or allow some wineries or farming to take place? I know the Yadkin Valley is an emerging wine region... why not here?

(2)Develop TOD nodes near potential regional rail stations in between Greensboro and Winton-Salem. This could actually help focus new development in areas that can handle it over the long term and potentially help fund the rail system through TIFs or MSDs (portion of tax revenue helps fund project). The regional rail will also tie Winston, PTRP, & Kernersville into the SE high speed rail project at Galyon Depot, connecting the region to the virtually the entire east coast via rail.

(3)Focus more energy and efforts on marketing and developing the downtowns, which have a ton more character and potential anyway.

[twincity]

The new Winston-Salem area VA clinic will most likely be built in Kernersville instead of PTRP. Two downtown sites were on the short list for the 280,000 sf facility, but were later ruled out for lack of land for future expansion if needed. The Triad would gain 1,000 new jobs form the new clinic. If the HOT initiactive still exsists, I guess this would be a major boost.

http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2011/10/31/kernersville-hospital-site-likely-spot.html

[cityboi]

The new Winston-Salem area VA clinic will most likely be built in Kernersville instead of PTRP. Two downtown sites were on the short list for the 280,000 sf facility, but were later ruled out for lack of land for future expansion if needed. The Triad would gain 1,000 new jobs form the new clinic. If the HOT initiactive still exsists, I guess this would be a major boost.

http://www.bizjourna...ikely-spot.html

The problems I have with Triad leaders is that they have great ideas and concepts for the region but they sit on those concepts for like 30 years before they even begin to do something. Triad leaders are slow in implementing plans when compared to Charlotte leaders who find a way to make it happen. What worries me is that we may not see nothing happen with HOT until 2030 or 2040. By then it will be too late because urban sprawl will have taken over the center of the Triad. I know some people don't like the idea of HOT and would prefer downtown be the focus. But development is going to happen between Greensboro and Winston-Salem whether we like it or not and I would rather see a smart growth concept plan over urban sprawl.

Edited November 1, 2011 by cityboi

[winston's finest]

It would have been great if the new clinic would have been in Downtown W-S because it would have pushed for much new development. The good thing, however, about the Kernersville location is that it will help develop that area quickly because like CityBoi said "development out there is going to happen whether we like it or not". As an avid shopper and Winston resident I am always looking for potential places for retail development. With 1000+ new jobs in K-Vegas I could definitely see a new lifestyle center popping up in the suburbs. Maybe the "Union Cross Towne Center" that was proposed years ago and just disappeared. Speaking of...A new hotel and restaurant is being sited for Union Cross according to the Triad Business Journal

http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2011/11/04/union-cross-project-likely-to-have.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/print-edition/2011/11/04/rezoning-could-bring-hotel-restaurant.html

[twincity]

^ Yeah, this is within the W-S limits. Fox8 aired a story on this saying SE Forsyth is still one of the fastest growing areas of the Triad.

Its unfortunate that the VA prefers a more sprawling medical center instead of an urban one. I really wanted this for PTRP.

[cityboi]

^ Yeah, this is within the W-S limits. Fox8 aired a story on this saying SE Forsyth is still one of the fastest growing areas of the Triad.

Its unfortunate that the VA prefers a more sprawling medical center instead of an urban one. I really wanted this for PTRP.

hotel, restaurants.....the uncontrollable sprawl begins and no one is doing anything with the HOT plan.

Edited November 8, 2011 by cityboi