Wal-Mart's Urban Push

[eltron]

The Projo quoted commercial taxes, not property taxes. Providence is leading the nation. Before you go off on a rant, please re-read my post. Thanks.

P.S. If you think Providence's COMMERCIAL taxes are so fair, can you explain why businesses avoid the city like the plague?

Uh, they were quoting commercial PROPERTY taxes.

[runawayjim]

i don't think there's anything walmart can bring to providence that would be good for the community other than jobs, but any retailer can bring that. saying they'll do all those things for the community is just to get people to welcome them in, nothing more. once here, they'll be sure to drive other stores out of the area so taht they're the only place to shop. it reminds me of that south park episode...

i don't think leaving an empty strip mall is a good idea, but finding something better than a walmart would be (this would also be a good location for a job lot and maybe something else).

in response to hartfordtycoon, this strip mall is actually quite small, so it will be a stand-alone walmart and nothing else will go in there. so it won't help in that sense. i think there's already too many walmarts in RI. there's 2 in warwick and 1 in cranston, nevermind attleboro and seekonk. i think that's plenty in the providence area.

i, too, get sick when i walk into one. they aren't kept neat, the employees generally don't give a crap about their jobs so they aren't very helpful, they pay someone to stand in the front of the store to say "hello" and "goodbye" to people when they could be paying someone to actually be helping customers, and the stuff they sell is generally crap. that's not even going into their shady business practices. i'd rather see a target move in there. their prices aren't really much higher, but their stores are a whole lot more pleasant to shop in. what would be nice is one of the big targets with the grocery store inside (i forget what they call those).

to contribute to the grocery store tangent... the stop and shop on mineral spring (by 146) is cheaper than the shaws on admiral st or smithfield rd (depending on how you look at it). they actually just remodeled that stop and shop, so it's quite nice to shop in now. and it's 24 hours. the shaws on admiral is always out of stock on things and they're a bit expensive. but it's so close to my house that it's not really worth shopping elsewhere for me... i also prefer stop and shop's deli to shaws. shaws lacks good brands for cold cuts.

[HartfordTycoon]

in response to hartfordtycoon, this strip mall is actually quite small, so it will be a stand-alone walmart and nothing else will go in there. so it won't help in that sense. i think there's already too many walmarts in RI. there's 2 in warwick and 1 in cranston, nevermind attleboro and seekonk. i think that's plenty in the providence area.

OK, that is a very valid point. The one in Hartford literally spurred a massive wave of development in the area. And the plaza itself is dominated by national chains, actually a welcomed sight in Hartford, but those are franchises with local owners so in my book those count as small businesses. Every situation is unique though, the Wal Mart in Hartford has really been nothing but a positive thing for the city though.

[runawayjim]

OK, that is a very valid point. The one in Hartford literally spurred a massive wave of development in the area. And the plaza itself is dominated by national chains, actually a welcomed sight in Hartford, but those are franchises with local owners so in my book those count as small businesses. Every situation is unique though, the Wal Mart in Hartford has really been nothing but a positive thing for the city though.

the location where our walmart is going in isn't surrounded by much... there's a home depot and a wendy's nearby, but that's it. no room for other places to open up or much more development to occur.

[KRC]

Uh, they were quoting commercial PROPERTY taxes.

Yes they were. Thank you.

[drc72]

Wal Mart came to Hartford a little over a year ago on a site that was once one of our most notorious housing projects, Charter Oak Terrace. As the anchor tenant in a brand new plaza they have attracted many national retailers and locally owned stores and every business in the plaza seems to be doing great. I'm not an advocate, but believe me, the Wal Mart is 1000% better than what was there before, and no one else would have ever invested in the area. Now people don't even know it's Hartford anymore. I have heard co-workers say Wal Mart in West Hartford, because they are not used to having a new plaza in the city. When it was the projects, believe me, no one confused it for West Hartford and there were zero jobs in that area for young people and unskilled people. So, I don't know love em or hate em, I don't think it's really a thing to dread. Just my 2 cents.

I been to the Hartford Walmart. That plaza is filled with a lot of other stores as well like Radio Shack, Cingular, Marshall's, Long john silver's, and a bunch of others. Walmart being an anchor store really helped the plaza out a lot.

[Dan]

I'm slightly amused that people seem to be expecting some kind of shopping experience when they visit Wal-Mart. It's like filling up a cart at Price Rite, complaining about the store's layout and some of its older fixtures... meanwhile your total rings up to $45 and you'll eat for a week and a half.

I believe you are right about the end cap vs. aisle theory, but this is true anywhere and is just intelligent merchandising. Wal-Mart also capitalizes on one-stop convenience in these instances. You're there for the shampoo and toilet paper so you might as well get the motor oil and the chips and salsa so you don't have to hit two more stores. But I think overall, they are priced lower than anywhere else. I just got a video card at Wal-Mart and I know i saved about 25% off the office stores and CompUSA's price. Nobody is calling for a boycott of Stop&Shop, the most expensive statewide grocery chain. Why not?

Also, I think I've mentioned before, different prices are set for different markets. The cereal in Valley Shaw's for $3.79 is likely $4.09 in East Greenwich and $4.29 in Narragansett or Newport. So urban locations usually do offer value to (neighborhood) consumers.

I honestly cannot say that i believe that a Walmart is better than an abandoned strip mall. Plus, i don't believe those are our only choices (walmart or empty nuthin') most of the time. like many deals in this city, it isn't "opportunity" that makes deals happen, but deals that make deals happen. I can think of a few instances where property was "held" for a specific purpose even though there were many other different interested buyers.

Jen, do you believe it is right to "hold" available real estate until the "right" suitor comes along? Should we stop a developer (who is motivated and ready with financing) from investing in the city if there is a philosophical disagreement with the tenant's business practices?

BTW - your Comet knockoff is something like 50 cents at Family Dollar. Prime example of why I don't buy any non-grocery items from el supermercado.

[runawayjim]

I'm slightly amused that people seem to be expecting some kind of shopping experience when they visit Wal-Mart. It's like filling up a cart at Price Rite, complaining about the store's layout and some of its older fixtures... meanwhile your total rings up to $45 and you'll eat for a week and a half.

I believe you are right about the end cap vs. aisle theory, but this is true anywhere and is just intelligent merchandising. Wal-Mart also capitalizes on one-stop convenience in these instances. You're there for the shampoo and toilet paper so you might as well get the motor oil and the chips and salsa so you don't have to hit two more stores. But I think overall, they are priced lower than anywhere else. I just got a video card at Wal-Mart and I know i saved about 25% off the office stores and CompUSA's price. Nobody is calling for a boycott of Stop&Shop, the most expensive statewide grocery chain. Why not?

Also, I think I've mentioned before, different prices are set for different markets. The cereal in Valley Shaw's for $3.79 is likely $4.09 in East Greenwich and $4.29 in Narragansett or Newport. So urban locations usually do offer value to (neighborhood) consumers.

Jen, do you believe it is right to "hold" available real estate until the "right" suitor comes along? Should we stop a developer (who is motivated and ready with financing) from investing in the city if there is a philosophical disagreement with the tenant's business practices?

BTW - your Comet knockoff is something like 50 cents at Family Dollar. Prime example of why I don't buy any non-grocery items from el supermercado.

it depends on the stop and shop you go to, but they're not always the most expensive. the shaws near me is more expensive than teh stop and shop i used to frequent (on mineral spring in north prov).

and walmart is not always cheaper than other places. for some items they are, and that's how they pull people in regularly. i will not shop there regardless of their prices for ethical reasons and the fact that they're always madhouses and dumps. i have never been to a walmart that looked all nice and clean and neat beyond the first month they were open. after that, the place looks like a twister came through. why can target, which gets as much business, keep their stores looking fabulous day in and day out, yet walmart, which has more money, keeps their stores looking like a bomb blew up in the middle of the place?

[damus]

why can target, which gets as much business, keep their stores looking fabulous day in and day out, yet walmart, which has more money, keeps their stores looking like a bomb blew up in the middle of the place?

Too much red, between the red everywhere and the food court by the checkout lines it constantly reminds me of Bradlees. But yeah, most Walmarts aren't kept very well. The one I worked at is one of the cleanest and well organized Wal-Marts around, but the godawful lines piss me off. You go in for a flashlight and wind up waiting 20 minutes in the express line. They never have enough people working the registers, and most of the ones that are working there seem to have no sense of urgency. I guess they like to put all their "top" talent in management or overnight stocking shelves or cleaning floors.

[runawayjim]

Too much red, between the red everywhere and the food court by the checkout lines it constantly reminds me of Bradlees. But yeah, most Walmarts aren't kept very well. The one I worked at is one of the cleanest and well organized Wal-Marts around, but the godawful lines piss me off. You go in for a flashlight and wind up waiting 20 minutes in the express line. They never have enough people working the registers, and most of the ones that are working there seem to have no sense of urgency. I guess they like to put all their "top" talent in management or overnight stocking shelves or cleaning floors.

let us not forget that walmart is a big reason bradlees, caldors, and ames all went out of business and why kmart is barely hanging on.

target is actually quite similar to caldors, only nicer. they even sell the brands caldors used to sell.

one if the big issues i have with walmart is what they did in my hometown of branford, CT. while they did put money into improving a really nasty pretzel intersection on rt 1, they put their building right next to a bunch of old dilapitated buildings and built a massive parking lot. guess what? those dilapidated buildings are still there for sale. why didn't walmart buy those and put their store there rather than buying land, tearing down trees and paving over grass? caldors, which was 1/10 of a mile up the road had to lower their prices because even though their products were better quality, walmart was undercutting them by a lot. drove them out of business. in nearby east haven, there was a bradless and a kmart, both closed (this was only a few miles from the branford walmart). currently the roads are all torn up there for I-95 construction, but i hope to see a target in the old bradlees location. i'm curious how much it'd hurt walmart's business. i'd like to see that walmart close. they do nothing for the town. so walmart didn't add jobs, they really just shifted them around. caldors wasn't anywhere near going out of business until walmart moved to the region. then bradlees and ames followed, along with many kmarts.

[damus]

let us not forget that walmart is a big reason bradlees, caldors, and ames all went out of business and why kmart is barely hanging on.

target is actually quite similar to caldors, only nicer. they even sell the brands caldors used to sell.

I've never been a big fan bradlees, caldor, or ames. I think Ames was mismanaged a little bit. In the 80s they bought out Zaire's, and instead of closing down the Norwich location, they reopened it as an Ames ONE MILE from their existing Norwich store. Both stores stayed open for a few years before the old Zaires was closed and remodeled into a Shoprite.

At least it has almost everything including, in the Supercenters, groceries. Target (pronounced tar-jay) is alright, but they seem to be trying to be the upscale walmart. It's a real hassle to get there from where I live in Preston as the nearest one is in Waterford. There are two walmarts within 10 miles of my house, one of which is a supercenter and for the most part pretty convenient. That sucks what happened in Branford, around here we lost the caldor and ames; the bradless (groton and new london) were a half hour away anyways. Walmart got to where they are by being good at cutting operating costs, and cutting prices. Now they have the bargaining power that they have, and prices are even lower. They followed the rules. I'm not sorry to see the crapty regional discount department stores close down and be replaced by 3 big, mostly not as crapty national chains, I miss some of the other (small, specialized) places that closed down in the late 80s/early 90s. One gripe about Walmart that came to mind is their lack of regional items. You cannot pick up Martin Rosel's kielbasa at any Walmart. There are probably dozens of little items like that which are so much better than national brands and cannot be found at Walmart.

[runawayjim]

I've never been a big fan bradlees, caldor, or ames. I think Ames was mismanaged a little bit. In the 80s they bought out Zaire's, and instead of closing down the Norwich location, they reopened it as an Ames ONE MILE from their existing Norwich store. Both stores stayed open for a few years before the old Zaires was closed and remodeled into a Shoprite.

At least it has almost everything including, in the Supercenters, groceries. Target (pronounced tar-jay) is alright, but they seem to be trying to be the upscale walmart. It's a real hassle to get there from where I live in Preston as the nearest one is in Waterford. There are two walmarts within 10 miles of my house, one of which is a supercenter and for the most part pretty convenient. That sucks what happened in Branford, around here we lost the caldor and ames; the bradless (groton and new london) were a half hour away anyways. Walmart got to where they are by being good at cutting operating costs, and cutting prices. Now they have the bargaining power that they have, and prices are even lower. They followed the rules. I'm not sorry to see the crapty regional discount department stores close down and be replaced by 3 big, mostly not as crapty national chains, I miss some of the other (small, specialized) places that closed down in the late 80s/early 90s. One gripe about Walmart that came to mind is their lack of regional items. You cannot pick up Martin Rosel's kielbasa at any Walmart. There are probably dozens of little items like that which are so much better than national brands and cannot be found at Walmart.

target is hardly an upscale walmart. their prices aren't even that much different for most items. the biggest difference is that target is clean and walmart is a war zone. target's employees seem to care more as well, while walmart employees could give a crap about the customers. target also handles the checkout lines better. i've never had to wait very long in target except during the christmas season (when you wait no matter where you go), while at walmart, going on almost any given day results in waiting at the checkout while the incompetent cashier tries to count out change. do they really think they're doing a service fo the community by hiring the undesirables? they're not if they're trying to actually have happy customers.

[Jenkins]

Drove by the Walmart on Charles Street today, and they appear to be using red brick for the outside.

[Dan]

I heard on MSNBC that Wal-Mart could be getting some competition.

Slate.com article

It's an interesting concept. Convenience and price!

[tiffhiker]

For a good look (well, I considered it a good look!) into the Wal-mart way of business, check out the film "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Prices." It came out a few months ago and did a pretty good job of speaking about the company's buying policies, merchandising, and employee matters. The guy who did the film used former Wal-Mart employees (which, of course, will bias the film somewhat) to attest to the claims made. I haven't been as angry and disgusted as I was watching this film in a long time!

I followed the film up with the Frontline episode "Is Wal-mart Good for America?" It discussed their merchandising approach, which was mentioned above - putting a few low-price items on an endcap and then selling out of them and basically forcing customers to buy different brands for more than they could get the product at some other store - as well as the demise of local businesses and the small-town feel of many communities Wal-marts are in.

Personally I avoid shopping there unless it's an emergency - I've found this "emergency" to exist in many midwestern towns that aren't big enough to support a Target but have had to close down local stores due to Wal-Mart's presence. (I'm from the Midwest and have this argument all of the time with my family. Even my dad, who is the king of low prices, refuses to shop there now, so at least I have one supporter!)

Anyway, just thought I'd give these movies out as suggestions for anyone who's interested - you can rent both from Netflix, and I'm sure at least the "High Cost" movie is as other video store chains.