Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

smeagolsfree

New 16 story tower across from Terrazzo

70 posts in this topic

I just spoke to the doorman and he just spoke to William and there is a new 16 story tower going on the property where Madam X was located on the corner of 12th and Division. The Crosland group(the same ones building the Terrazzo) are going to build this. They will need to get a height variance, but I dont think that will be a problem considering everything else has been approved there. A rendering will follow later. From what John said it is going to be a thin building. I expect you will see more towers announced as we get later into the year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


I'm glad I've got photos of this area from the time before anything happened. This should make a very interesting grouping, from the Gulch and the interstates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow that corner is firming up. I agree that the building will have to be designed to 'fit' on the plot as it is hemmed in by the Division/12th corner and I-40 in the rear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope they get a priest or shaman to go 'cleanse' that property before they start building. Shew! Seriously, I bet it will be nice. I find it interesting when tall buildings are built on the interstate like this. From I-40, there will be a little skyline at the curve near where Division crosses, with Terrazzo, Icon, and the mystery tower. How long til someone buys and builds on the one remaining NW corner there?

Is demand really already so high for Terrazzo that Crosland has another tower waiting in the wings? If so, I see that as a great sign of even more to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am looking forward to this rendering!

Same here. I wonder if Crosland will design this one to "compliment" the Terrazzo project, or try for a different style design. The Gulch will be nearly unrecognizable in afew years. Has anyone heard an approximate start date for the Terrazzo? Are there any rumors, ets for some of the other vacant properties in the area. With all this housing being annouced, I'm hoping for a blockbuster retail development announcement later this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the demand will remain high. One thing to consider is gas prices and car insurance rates, not to mention car maintenance. The average American I read somewhere spends almost $4000 a year on car insurance, gas and repair!

With the suburbs almost being built out and the suburban office parks bursting at the seams, the downtown core is in high demand. Some suburbs are so far out from downtown Nashville, upwards of 30 miles, it makes sence for those who can afford the downtown living expenses to move in town.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spoke to William earlier and he said this is going to be a very upscale development with only 25 or so units. The write up will be in the City Paper in the morning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


I think the demand will remain high. One thing to consider is gas prices and car insurance rates, not to mention car maintenance. The average American I read somewhere spends almost $4000 a year on car insurance, gas and repair!

With the suburbs almost being built out and the suburban office parks bursting at the seams, the downtown core is in high demand. Some suburbs are so far out from downtown Nashville, upwards of 30 miles, it makes sence for those who can afford the downtown living expenses to move in town.

Is there really a limit to how far out the suburbs can go? If you had asked me 20 years ago, I would have thought anyone was crazy if they built more than 15 miles out. Now they're building 30 miles out. There are 10,000 about to be built way, way out in Spring Hill, for Christ sake! Where will it end? Maybe these higher gas prices will finally bring the public to their senses. They are NOT saving any money moving out there. They're just trading a cheaper home for higher auto costs and less quality time. Sometimes I think they completely forget to value the time that they spend commuting these ridiculous distances. What if you valued your time at $20 per hour, and you were spending (wasting) an extra hour per day, every work day commuting. That time you lost would be worth $5,000, over $400 per month.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, I don't think there is really a natural "limit" to suburbs. Anyone who believes there is should look at Atlanta, Southern California, Houston, etc. etc.

However, I do think that there is a definite trend in favor of more centralized urban living, which is great for those of us here who have always believed in that.

Is there enough of a demand to fill all the proposals and future developments we read about here? No.

In my opinion, from a purely rational/economic point of view, I don't think it's possible for Nashville to sustain that many new urban housing units, unless the population begins to grow in a way that it hasn't been growing. I hope i'm wrong, but I just don't see that as being possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The City Paper said the Terrazzo will be 16 stories. I thought it would be taller than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Terrazzo is on one corner with 14 , The Icon is on another corner with 21 or 22 which ever report you want to believe, and this tower will be diagonal from the Icon with 16. There will only be one corner at this intersection without a tower which will be very cool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Terrazzo is on one corner with 14 , The Icon is on another corner with 21 or 22 which ever report you want to believe, and this tower will be diagonal from the Icon with 16. There will only be one corner at this intersection without a tower which will be very cool.

C'mon developers. Let's go for a tower on every corner. Wouldn't that be amazing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This reminds me a lot of Buckhead!. Nashville having all of these distinct neighborhoods is a great thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


An article from the NBJ on Crosland's plans for the 16 story in the Gulch. Just a little more info, not much.

http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville.../10/story2.html

$750,000 per unit. That's scary, and I'm not pleased with the trend we are seeing here. I wish the trend were towards more affordable downtown housing so that more people can have the opportunity to live there. If the next project Crosland puts in balances that a bit and is lower priced, then the future for the Gulch will be brighter , IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I share your concern Hank, but I think it will be a very affordable area in the long run. This is only 25 units and its a good thing to have a mix in that area. The Icon will be affordable and Laurel House I believe is as well. I look for some more projects of affordable housing to go in this area and more announcements coming down the pipeline. I dont know anything but again I am sooth saying. The one thing we have to remember is the fact that with higher demand the more expensive things get. We can only hope they dont get too carried away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just going to be honest here. For a single couple with a husband and a wife (the target demo for these towers), these prices are WAYYYYYYY out of our league. And we want to live down there. I agree, they have GOT TO COME DOWN to levels that are in check with the burbs. If not, there will continue to be a flight to the burbs like Murfreesboro, Smyrna and points inbetween. These are not "affordable" by the majorities standards I believe. Rather, it is geared for a more select "few" that have the priveldge. I hope this doesn't become a class thing in the future. But I have a feeling that it will be, and no one will do or say anything about it either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just going to be honest here. For a single couple with a husband and a wife (the target demo for these towers), these prices are WAYYYYYYY out of our league. And we want to live down there. I agree, they have GOT TO COME DOWN to levels that are in check with the burbs. If not, there will continue to be a flight to the burbs like Murfreesboro, Smyrna and points inbetween. These are not "affordable" by the majorities standards I believe. Rather, it is geared for a more select "few" that have the priveldge. I hope this doesn't become a class thing in the future. But I have a feeling that it will be, and no one will do or say anything about it either.

Well put, Lexy. The only way huge numbers of people will be interested in moving out of suburbia and back into the urban setting, is by offering plenty of affordable housing that is reasonably competitive with housing costs in the suburbs. Without that, the reverse move of people back to the city, a vision that I think we all on this forum hope to one day see, will probably never happen. We must have plenty of competively priced housing in the city to have any chance of ending suburban sprawl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$750,000 per unit. That's scary, and I'm not pleased with the trend we are seeing here. I wish the trend were towards more affordable downtown housing so that more people can have the opportunity to live there.

Am I starting to hear people agreeing with what I had been talking about before? Man, before you know it, you might not like skyscrapers for the same reasons Bzorch and I have been talking about. Just kidding, I know that's just crazy talk!!

Anyway, the affordability is a huge issue. Where do people who work in the retail/ service sector work? With all of these high priced units, are we going to end up with a kind of reverse sprawl, where the rich can now live downtown in their valet parking paradise, but their servers and parkers all have to live in Smyrna to be able to afford housing? For downtown to be this vibrant place we all hope it will become (and not just from tourists, a real community), there must diversity in housing. Unfortunately, every developer thus far is targeting a specific crowd. I simply can't believe there is this much demand in this sector. I also feel developers are skewing the numbers into saying all demand must be of the high rise variety because that's what we're getting. I hope all of this development doesn't become a weekend party playground for the rich as their second homes. I'd hate to see retail open with the assumption these units are selling to someone who'll frequent their establishment regularly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I guess I'll be a decenter on this point. While I totally understand the desire for affordable housing in the downtown area, this is and always will be a market driven thing. Unless we decide to FORCE developers to build to lower incomes, and I hope we're not suggesting that, they are going to continue to build to demand. If downtown becomes an even more popular place to live, well then, with limited area and increased demand, property values will go through the roof. Whip out the double edge sword. We want a successful city but it surely comes with a price. I get where you're coming from Hankster and I think we very much see eye to eye but after all, the burbs are many many times larger than the whole of the downtown area. Even if only 10% wanted to move to or back to town, it will either have to get very vertical, very expensive or have some awfully charitable developers willing to risk and lose a lot of money.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to live in an affordable place downtown but apparently so do many others. Sure there are going to be different products at different price points on the market but nothing is going to be cheap. I think the best you could hope for is more developers depending on TIF, like Tony, that will encourage median income opportunities.

Ultimately it's the nature of the beast. Popular and inexpensive don't usually go together. I've never believed in Utopia, not on this earth anyway, and I don't believe we are going to successfully socially engineer the perfect urban environment. Can we try to responsibly create a much better livable environment? Absolutely! Sorry if this sounds heavy handed because it's not meant to be at all. It's just that sometimes it sounds like expectations get a bit unrealistic? Maybe? :whistling: I think we are going to have an incredibly successful city as I am very optimistic like most on this forum.

OK, you may now kill the capitalist. :unsure::D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I starting to hear people agreeing with what I had been talking about before? Man, before you know it, you might not like skyscrapers for the same reasons Bzorch and I have been talking about. Just kidding, I know that's just crazy talk!!

Only you and Bzorch, huh? Dude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well put, Lexy. The only way huge numbers of people will be interested in moving out of suburbia and back into the urban setting, is by offering plenty of affordable housing that is reasonably competitive with housing costs in the suburbs. Without that, the reverse move of people back to the city, a vision that I think we all on this forum hope to one day see, will probably never happen. We must have plenty of competively priced housing in the city to have any chance of ending suburban sprawl.

I think we are seeing the future. The upper class and upper middle class are rediscovering urban neighborhoods. Those without kids, for the most part, are going to the CBDs and industrial areas, those with, for the most part, are going to the surrounding urban garden neighborhoods. Those who can't afford the rising prices in these areas are going further out. Those who can afford it are going to the newer burbs, those who can't are going to the older, closer-in burbs. I think this is why there has been so much growth in Antioch and the rest of SE Davidson. See the story in today's Tennesseean on how cities are attracting the more educated...even some of the cities that are losing population overall (sorry, I did not see the link on line). If Nashville wasn't a metro, we would be bleeding people to our suburbs in the SE of the county. The trend is masked here, since these burbs are part of metro. Without affordable housing, downtown could turn into just a playground for the well off and the tourists. At least that has some residential life and is better than being just a tourist destination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry NT, didn't mean to leave you or anyone else out.

The problems I see with only catering to an elite group are not addressing sprawl and the neighborhood is not sustainable.

The majority of us aren't wealthy enough to afford the $300K to $1 mil pad downtown. Does that mean those that can't afford to put that up must still live on the periphery in areas that are deemed affordable by property costs and not taking into account infrastructure and the effect on these individuals of their commuting costs? Why can't we provide housing opportunities for those who can't afford to drive and thus need to live in a walkable community? This applies to most of the workers that would be in the retail sector providing services for the elite.

Sustainability. Maybe this is a fad, the rich want a playground where they can walk to the Symphony and walk home on a weekend and then go back to their 'country estate' during the week. What happens to the neighborhood when this 'fad', if it is one, changes to something new? Maybe the eco-village takes off in a couple of years and all the rich want to live in trees, I don't know. What's left behind when they leave? Do I think it will be a mass migration out, no, but it has happened in the past and history can and usually does repeat itself. Without a diversity of housing types a neighborhood can not sustain out-migration. What would happen to Brentwood if all the well-to-do there caught the urban bug and left? Would there be anything left, I doubt it, but I guess we'd have our urban core.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.