Riverchase Galleria

[tedo420]

Yes I think the Ikea store in Birmingham would be a stretch. But if they were going to build one where do you think it would be? As much as I would love to see some redevelopment in an urban area of Birmingham like Atlantic station did in ATL, we really don't have space like that with the right surrounding demographics. But I thought of this, what about a complete redevelopment of Wildwood, In my opinion this is prime underused property, I don't care that its close to Oxmore valley its still like gold, that

[bhamsly]

Yes I think the Ikea store in Birmingham would be a stretch. But if they were going to build one where do you think it would be? As much as I would love to see some redevelopment in an urban area of Birmingham like Atlantic station did in ATL, we really don't have space like that with the right surrounding demographics. But I thought of this, what about a complete redevelopment of Wildwood, In my opinion this is prime underused property, I don't care that its close to Oxmore valley its still like gold, that's why Amsouth located there. The left side of Wildwood needs to be torn down in my opinion, the site never was graded right, needs to be more level with Lakeshore, there is so much land, there's to much parking lot but still a hell of a location off 65. Convince Wal-Mart to move to the other side put Ikea where Wal-Mart is now, better visibility. In my opinion any property off Lakeshore is prime property. So you would have Ikea bordered by 65, Lakeshore and Green springs/Columbiana. You would pull people out of Homewood, Mountain Brook, Vestavia, a short drive from Hoover north on 65, and a lot easier for people north/Gardendale and east/ Trussville/Leeds parts of bham to get to rather than putting Ikea way south in Hoover. Imagine the possibilities of a new Wildwood with Ikea; more, better retail maybe some mixed use unique affordable housing, especially office, there is a major shortage of office space on Lakeshore. Any way it's just a great great location Close to hotels and near the new Ross Bridge, and throw in a connector trail to the proposed red mountain park, its right there isn't it? Birmingham could advertise a shopping, triangle tourist weekend thing. Wildwood/Ikea<> Galleria<>the summit or RossBridgestay/golf<>nature day at red mountain park<>ikea. Sorry I went off on a tangent, but I get these crazy ideas some time, I feel like Larry Langford, no but seriously I would love to be a developer some day.

I agree with all of that, but I seriously doubt that Wal Mart will move since they are combined with Sam's Club. Also, AIG Baker developers have torn down the old Regal theater area of Wildwood South, in an effort to bring more retailers...just go to there website. IKEA would do wonderful in that location though or, where Brunos was Brookwood Mall(even though no direct interstate access). It would also be a great location(Lakeshore Wal Mart) because it is in the center of all the major universities.

I always viewed an Atlantic Station type development over at the Trinity steel site, but the demographics aren't there. Something really nice needs to be done there.

I can't wait to see some growth in Oxmoor Valley.

[TRoberts]

I agree with all of that, but I seriously doubt that Wal Mart will move since they are combined with Sam's Club. Also, AIG Baker developers have torn down the old Regal theater area of Wildwood South, in an effort to bring more retailers...just go to there website. IKEA would do wonderful in that location though or, where Brunos was Brookwood Mall(even though no direct interstate access). It would also be a great location(Lakeshore Wal Mart) because it is in the center of all the major universities.

I always viewed an Atlantic Station type development over at the Trinity steel site, but the demographics aren't there. Something really nice needs to be done there.

I can't wait to see some growth in Oxmoor Valley.

There's no way Ikea would even fit at the Brookwood location. If I'm not mistaken, the Atlanta store is something in the neighborhood of 360,000+ sq. ft. with two levels of parking under the store. The total size of Brookwood Mall is just over 680,000 sq. ft. So you'd be talking about building a single store over half as large as the mall itself. Keep in mind, IKEA Atlanta is actually a 4 store megastructure for the most part. The showroom is two floors approximately 180,000 sq. ft. each with two levels of parking below this whch basically take up the entire footprint of the store - in other words, each parking level is around another 180,000 sq. ft. The other logistical nightmare at Brookwood would be traffic. Lakeshore Parkway absolutely could not handle the increased traffic loads at the 280 and 31 intersections that Ikea would creat. You think 280 is bad now...

Wildwood wouldn't be a horrible location traffic wise as it is located directly on 65 and Lakeshore (which eventually will meet 459 in the Bessemer area). The problem here is again the shear size of the store. Wal-Mart (and Sams) would not vacate and sell their land for anything less than a small fortune; and when I say a small fortune, I mean enough to pay in full for the construction of probably two more Wal-Marts and a Sams Club. Wal-Mart probably has in the neighborhood of 100 to 300 million invested in that location and would not go easily. As for the rest of the center, AIG Baker's redevelopment exist of approximately 180,000 sq. ft. of new space on the far west end (old theater location). Parking would be the ulitmate nightmare here unless you built an above ground parking garage of two or three levels AND then built the store on top of this structure. Doing this might solve the problem of the grade level being so much lower than Lakeshore as there would have to be store level access for their delivery trucks.

In my opinion, the most logical location would be from the ground up on a large, undeveloped piece of land that can be molded accordingly to Ikea's needs. Look at a map of Birmingham and only a few places would be within their demographics (if Birmingham period was in their demographics to start with) and also consist of large undeveloped land adjacent to interstates corridors. Ideal locations in my opinion would be 459 and Grants Mill, 20 and 78 (Grand River area), 459 and Derby Parkway, 459 and 150 (maybe but unlikely), further out Lakeshore from Wildwood, 65 and Valleydale, etc. You get the idea. Less than developed exit locations still located within the major Birmingham area.

[VistaLakes01]

There's no way Ikea would even fit at the Brookwood location. If I'm not mistaken, the Atlanta store is something in the neighborhood of 360,000+ sq. ft. with two levels of parking under the store. The total size of Brookwood Mall is just over 680,000 sq. ft. So you'd be talking about building a single store over half as large as the mall itself. Keep in mind, IKEA Atlanta is actually a 4 store megastructure for the most part. The showroom is two floors approximately 180,000 sq. ft. each with two levels of parking below this whch basically take up the entire footprint of the store - in other words, each parking level is around another 180,000 sq. ft. The other logistical nightmare at Brookwood would be traffic. Lakeshore Parkway absolutely could not handle the increased traffic loads at the 280 and 31 intersections that Ikea would creat. You think 280 is bad now...

Wildwood wouldn't be a horrible location traffic wise as it is located directly on 65 and Lakeshore (which eventually will meet 459 in the Bessemer area). The problem here is again the shear size of the store. Wal-Mart (and Sams) would not vacate and sell their land for anything less than a small fortune; and when I say a small fortune, I mean enough to pay in full for the construction of probably two more Wal-Marts and a Sams Club. Wal-Mart probably has in the neighborhood of 100 to 300 million invested in that location and would not go easily. As for the rest of the center, AIG Baker's redevelopment exist of approximately 180,000 sq. ft. of new space on the far west end (old theater location). Parking would be the ulitmate nightmare here unless you built an above ground parking garage of two or three levels AND then built the store on top of this structure. Doing this might solve the problem of the grade level being so much lower than Lakeshore as there would have to be store level access for their delivery trucks.

In my opinion, the most logical location would be from the ground up on a large, undeveloped piece of land that can be molded accordingly to Ikea's needs. Look at a map of Birmingham and only a few places would be within their demographics (if Birmingham period was in their demographics to start with) and also consist of large undeveloped land adjacent to interstates corridors. Ideal locations in my opinion would be 459 and Grants Mill, 20 and 78 (Grand River area), 459 and Derby Parkway, 459 and 150 (maybe but unlikely), further out Lakeshore from Wildwood, 65 and Valleydale, etc. You get the idea. Less than developed exit locations still located within the major Birmingham area.

No matter where IKEA locates, it will attract customers from all parts of town, plus folks from the rest of Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi and the Florida panhandle. There was an article in the newspaper here today (Orlando Sentinel) that the Orlando IKEA is the busiest in the chain. They are looking for ways to attract the Puerto Rican community, which differs from the Cuban community in South Florida and college students. I believe the Charlotte IKEA is being built in a non retail area of the city, I'm not sure where the Tampa location is being built. I think that I heard that IKEA looks for cities with a metro population of at least 2,000,000. but I also heard that they are thinking of a bigger expansion in the US due to the economic conditions and will be considering smaller metro areas based on location and how centralized the city is, which I think meets Birmingham's qualifications. Plus Birmingham has that larger than average per capita income going for it. Does Bham offer any incentives for busnisses to locate there? It would be well worth the cities effort to try and bring IKEA to town because it is like a tourist attraction and would generate business for other retailers such as Nordstrom. If people make the drive to town, they will probably want to get out and explore and bring more business to Riverchase and The Summit. Does Bham have a West Elm store yet?

[TRoberts]

No matter where IKEA locates, it will attract customers from all parts of town, plus folks from the rest of Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi and the Florida panhandle. There was an article in the newspaper here today (Orlando Sentinel) that the Orlando IKEA is the busiest in the chain. They are looking for ways to attract the Puerto Rican community, which differs from the Cuban community in South Florida and college students. I believe the Charlotte IKEA is being built in a non retail area of the city, I'm not sure where the Tampa location is being built. I think that I heard that IKEA looks for cities with a metro population of at least 2,000,000. but I also heard that they are thinking of a bigger expansion in the US due to the economic conditions and will be considering smaller metro areas based on location and how centralized the city is, which I think meets Birmingham's qualifications. Plus Birmingham has that larger than average per capita income going for it. Does Bham offer any incentives for busnisses to locate there? It would be well worth the cities effort to try and bring IKEA to town because it is like a tourist attraction and would generate business for other retailers such as Nordstrom. If people make the drive to town, they will probably want to get out and explore and bring more business to Riverchase and The Summit. Does Bham have a West Elm store yet?

Does Birmingham offer any incentives... Sure, Larry Langford will offer whatever someone wants... The Olympics, YES! A Dome Stadium, YES! An equestrian center (in a not so desirable area), YES! An aquatics center (again, in the same not do desirable area), YES! Free bus rides, CERTAINLY YES! Trolleys downtown to nowhere, DEFINITELY YES!

The list could go on. Birmingham would never get it's act together to attempt to land a store like Ikea. That's why I concentrated on areas outside Birmingham that could actually pull the store in with some incentives.

[kayman]

Well RTKenmore, that is not in entirely true. The long-term patterns of what is seen with the City of Birmingham, and this is due to the way gas prices, that a major demographic shift is occurring. However, the true efforts won't be seen until the city figures out a way to overcome its "huge" crime reputation which is making some inroads with Roper as Police Chief. So it is possible for the IKEA to locate within the city limits (like the Summit), but not really probable. However, the only other city in the region that has given Birmingham a run for its money on major retailer recruitment incentives and not put themselves in the hole would be Hoover, but who knows.

It is most likely a "when" not "if" with IKEA locating a store with the Birmingham trade market, and the likely location will probably be somewhere Southeastern Jefferson with still a bit of open land and very close to their target demo. The first area to pop in my head would be the Grants Mill Road corridor at I-459.

However, one can't even rule out Trussville area since it has a lot of potential.

[TRoberts]

Well RTKenmore, that is not in entirely true. The long-term patterns of what is seen with the City of Birmingham, and this is due to the way gas prices, that a major demographic shift is occurring. However, the true efforts won't be seen until the city figures out a way to overcome its "huge" crime reputation which is making some inroads with Roper as Police Chief. So it is possible for the IKEA to locate within the city limits (like the Summit), but not really probable. However, the only other city in the region that has given Birmingham a run for its money on major retailer recruitment incentives and not put themselves in the hole would be Hoover, but who knows.

It is most likely a "when" not "if" with IKEA locating a store with the Birmingham trade market, and the likely location will probably be somewhere Southeastern Jefferson with still a bit of open land and very close to their target demo. The first area to pop in my head would be the Grants Mill Road corridor at I-459.

However, one can't even rule out Trussville area since it has a lot of potential.

I don't think it's impossible by any means... It's just the city of Birmingham would have some major hurdles to clear that other area cities wouldn't necessarily. As for the Summit, there's absolutely no land what-so-ever at the Summit that would fit a store and parking area the size of Ikea... Unless Bayer Properties plans on bulldozing Cameron. And 280 definitely doesn't need the increased traffic that an Ikea would bring.

There are several other cities that are getting much more competitive to land retail projects and other business besides Hoover. Leeds/Moody landed Bass Pro Shops and the development surrounding it through a fairly significant incentive package. The city of Moody successfully got Red Diamond to abandon Birmingham and move their headquarters there as well. Irondale landed the autoplex at Grants Mill and 459 pulling all of Tom Williams dealers out of Birmingham. Speaking of Grants Mill and 459, that's one exit I've mentioned as a potential for Ikea but the majority of the land at and around that exit is Irondale, not Birmingham. I believe the land Trinity is buying for their new hospital is the city of Irondale as well at that exit.

I've said before (in this thread I think) that I thought the most likely locations would be 459/Grants Mill, 459/Derby Parkway, 459/John Hawkins and even possibly 20/78 around Bass Pro. I know a large tract of land capable of suiting the size of property Ikea would need also exist at 59/Deerfoot at the rumored location of Bayers other "Summit-like" project which they recently cancelled.

[kayman]

I don't think it's impossible by any means... It's just the city of Birmingham would have some major hurdles to clear that other area cities wouldn't necessarily. As for the Summit, there's absolutely no land what-so-ever at the Summit that would fit a store and parking area the size of Ikea... Unless Bayer Properties plans on bulldozing Cameron. And 280 definitely doesn't need the increased traffic that an Ikea would bring.

There are several other cities that are getting much more competitive to land retail projects and other business besides Hoover. Leeds/Moody landed Bass Pro Shops and the development surrounding it through a fairly significant incentive package. The city of Moody successfully got Red Diamond to abandon Birmingham and move their headquarters there as well. Irondale landed the autoplex at Grants Mill and 459 pulling all of Tom Williams dealers out of Birmingham. Speaking of Grants Mill and 459, that's one exit I've mentioned as a potential for Ikea but the majority of the land at and around that exit is Irondale, not Birmingham. I believe the land Trinity is buying for their new hospital is the city of Irondale as well at that exit.

I've said before (in this thread I think) that I thought the most likely locations would be 459/Grants Mill, 459/Derby Parkway, 459/John Hawkins and even possibly 20/78 around Bass Pro. I know a large tract of land capable of suiting the size of property Ikea would need also exist at 59/Deerfoot at the rumored location of Bayers other "Summit-like" project which they recently cancelled.

Oh, I didn't mean locating at the Summit or along the US 280 corridor. I was referencing to how the City of Birmingham has annexed land in far-flung areas in the region to later develop like the sloth of land that later was home to the Summit. Yeah, I do know of that some cities can drop some incentives packages, but after examining what Charlotte was doing to get IKEA, I doubt that anybody aside from Birmingham, Hoover, or Jefferson County themselves (but that this is very doubtful) would be able to do it alone. It would probably have to take a partnership of 2 or more municipalities like the Bass Pro Shops incentive package between Leeds and Moody for one of the other cities with more direct freeway frontage to land the location. I know that Homewood and Vestavia Hills might be able to pull it off by themselves, but they are seriously lacking the large tracts of land with direct freeway access to hand over.

Another thing more related to the topic of thread, does anyone know anymore recent details on the Riverchase renovation and addition project being associated with the opening of Nordstrom? I've just heard some names being thrown out there (like Crate & Barrel) along with talk that some high-end retailers that will be exclusive to the market, but the details have be extremely hush-hush.

[TRoberts]

Oh, I didn't mean locating at the Summit or along the US 280 corridor. I was referencing to how the City of Birmingham has annexed land in far-flung areas in the region to later develop like the sloth of land that later was home to the Summit. Yeah, I do know of that some cities can drop some incentives packages, but after examining what Charlotte was doing to get IKEA, I doubt that anybody aside from Birmingham, Hoover, or Jefferson County themselves (but that this is very doubtful) would be able to do it alone. It would probably have to take a partnership of 2 or more municipalities like the Bass Pro Shops incentive package between Leeds and Moody for one of the other cities with more direct freeway frontage to land the location. I know that Homewood and Vestavia Hills might be able to pull it off by themselves, but they are seriously lacking the large tracts of land with direct freeway access to hand over.

Another thing more related to the topic of thread, does anyone know anymore recent details on the Riverchase renovation and addition project being associated with the opening of Nordstrom? I've just heard some names being thrown out there (like Crate & Barrel) along with talk that some high-end retailers that will be exclusive to the market, but the details have be extremely hush-hush.

I haven't even been to the Galleria lately. Have they even started demolition on the old Belk/Proffits/Macy's building? I know the plan was to demo the building and build from the ground up for Nordstrom.

I saw many suggestions on some websites saying that Jim Wilson and General Growth should take advantage of that and integrate a mall expansion that is an ourdoor lifestyle like additon similar to the Summit or Patton Creek. Depending on how much of the original footprint of the Belk building Nordstrom maintains, they could essentially build a lifestyle component on the back of Nordstrom facing Galleria Boulevard and the entrance from there.

I've also heard over and over several times that Crate and Barrel is taking the old Just For Feet location on the Perimeter. I would love to see that come to fruition as that's a great store and I think would add a quality mix to the Galleria. I saw one post that mentioned the Comp USA location for Crate and Barrel as well.

There are a lot of retailers I'd love to see in the Birmingham market that don't have a presence right now. I"m sure some will be included in the final phase at the Summit with the addition of 50,000 sq. ft. but I'm sure others will still not be represented in the market.

[VistaLakes01]

I haven't even been to the Galleria lately. Have they even started demolition on the old Belk/Proffits/Macy's building? I know the plan was to demo the building and build from the ground up for Nordstrom.

I saw many suggestions on some websites saying that Jim Wilson and General Growth should take advantage of that and integrate a mall expansion that is an ourdoor lifestyle like additon similar to the Summit or Patton Creek. Depending on how much of the original footprint of the Belk building Nordstrom maintains, they could essentially build a lifestyle component on the back of Nordstrom facing Galleria Boulevard and the entrance from there.

I've also heard over and over several times that Crate and Barrel is taking the old Just For Feet location on the Perimeter. I would love to see that come to fruition as that's a great store and I think would add a quality mix to the Galleria. I saw one post that mentioned the Comp USA location for Crate and Barrel as well.

There are a lot of retailers I'd love to see in the Birmingham market that don't have a presence right now. I"m sure some will be included in the final phase at the Summit with the addition of 50,000 sq. ft. but I'm sure others will still not be represented in the market.

Birmingham needs a "true" upscale mall, I believe in the 80's The Galleria was headed in that direction, it beat anything we had here in Orlando. When I visited Riverchase back then I was like "wow, this is awesome!" Maybe if Hoover would build something like Uptown Altamonte here in Orlando, Altamonte Springs was our older suburb back in the 80's and is revitalizing itself. Another excellent example is Downtown Dadeland in Miami. Both are more than lifestyle components added to the mall, they are actual cities being built from scratch. You could have a Downtown Hoover incorporated in with Riverchase with upscale apartments, lofts, and condos. Check out the websites for Uptown Altamonte and Downtown Dadeland and tell me what you think. I think the upscale center in a city does better with an indoor mall and lifestyle center combined. I looked at the site plan for the Summit and it doesn't even look like what we call a lifestyle center here. We have upscale lifestyle centers that are mainly restaurants/residential/24 hour gyms/and Stadium movie theaters. Then we have the larger over a million square feet centers that always have a village concept main street with restaurant and typical mall stores, then connected to a large strip of big box stores and department stores, usually SuperTarget, Kohl's, JC Penney, Bealls, and Belks. But most of our upscale is in the indoor quality constructed Mall at Millenia, Park Avenue and Florida Mall. Altamonte Mall remains popular due to the addition of Uptown Altamonte and Orlando Fashion Square which is in the center city area is between the brand new city neighborhood of Baldwin Park which has a downtown, like many older Orlando neighborhoods like College Park, Thornton Park, Colonialtown, and now SoDo. You should check out the SoDo website, it's got some good aerial pictures and is anchored by an urban SuperTarget and is totally transforming that neighborhood. The thing is, these are the kind of projects the city works with developers on, as well as the suburban cities. The city governments focus on bringing life to their cities. I won't provide links but you should search for the websites for the following projects:

Baldwin Park Orlando

Winter Springs Town Center

Veranda Park Orlando

SoDo Orlando

Uptown Altamonte

Downtown Dadeland Miami

Waterford Lakes Town Center (Simon Property)

The Loop Orlando

Winter Garden Village at Fowler Groves

Colonial Town Park Heathrow

Avalon Park Orlando

Downtown Orlando.com (watch the video)

I love Birmingham and I would love to see it prosper and become the big city it deserves to be. Plus we are building a new Performing Arts Center downtown and a New Events center for the Orlando Magic. Please give me some feedback and let me know if there is anything happening like the above developments in Bham or is anything like that possible? Good luck, Nordstrom is a step in the right direction, Riverchase needs to capitalize on it!

[DruidCity]

I've said before (in this thread I think) that I thought the most likely locations would be 459/Grants Mill, 459/Derby Parkway, 459/John Hawkins and even possibly 20/78 around Bass Pro.

What about the west end of 459 in Bessemer, near where it meets I-20/59 ? Colonial is already building a pretty

sizable shopping center at Exit 1. The interstate access there is great, you have attractions like Tannehill

and Alabama Adventure nearby, and you have good long-term drivers of growth in the general area such

as Mercedes and Ross Bridge.

Anyway, I've been to the IKEA store north of Austin,TX a few times. It really is an amazing store.

For those unfamiliar with it, the real surprise is how inexpensive a lot of their stuff is.

There's nothing remotely similar in AL-MS.

Similarly, Fry's Electronics rules. If Birmingham got one of those, engineers from Huntsville would

drive down to visit every week. Again, there's nothing remotely comparable in Alabama now.

I'm a bit surprised Alabama hasn't landed a Cabela's yet, either. There's one about 20 miles from

my brother's home in Texas that I always visit when I see him. Considering that Alabama is going

to have four Bass Pro locations, it seems only natural to have at least one Cabela's. Honestly,

Cabela's and Bass Pro are very similar, but the lack of other Cabela's locations in the state would

make a Birmingham one a draw.

Since Dillard's closed its store in Tuscaloosa, I've been half-expecting to see an announcement

that Dillard's would pop up in Birmingham somewhere. It's odd that a chain that large wouldn't want

some sort of presence in the sizable central Alabama market.

So, in a nutshell, picture a shopping center anchored by IKEA, Cabela's, Fry's, Dillard's, some form of entertainment

venue like a Dave & Buster's, and maybe a second Whole Foods location.

[tedo420]

I agree an Ikea anywhere would do well. It comes down to the available land and roadways large enough to handle the traffic. But speaking of the Summit, I heard the lease is up on the Carmike, Bruno

[TRoberts]

I agree an Ikea anywhere would do well. It comes down to the available land and roadways large enough to handle the traffic. But speaking of the Summit, I heard the lease is up on the Carmike, Bruno

[HSVTiger]

The Monaco Theaters in Huntsville as an example

http://www.monacopicturesusa.com/

[kayman]

The expansion at the Summit is just that, an expansion. It's not a conversion of anythng existing right now. The area being expanded is next to the most recent expansion behind the Cheesecake Factory. They're adding approximately 50,000 sq. ft. of retail; probably something like 6 to 12 stores maybe ranging in size from a couple 1000 sq. ft. to up to six or seven thousand.

I've heard the rumors on the Carmike as well but most of the rumors I've heard about that is Bayers desire for a more upscale style theater, not to simply do away with the theater. I think Bayer would actually be interested in getting a Rave in the Summit or a Muvico (I think that's the name) that tends to be a bit nicer and more upscale.

As for Bruno's, I've heard the same rumors there as well but again, I think Bayers intention would be to draw a more upscale grocer. There's a large population in that immediate area that shops Brunos and with the closing of the Western behind the Summit, there's a good demand for a grocery store. I could see the redelopment of the BBB and Old Navy areas upon the end of their leases as the Summit moves away from junior anchors and toward more upscale tenants however.

As for the Galleria, just to make sure you realize, I'm not referring to the Just for Feet in the food court, I'm talking about the free standing building on the outside loop road. And I think it would do just fine there. The Galleria isn't Lenox I agree but it's also not just some plain regional mall either. There are several upper-end in-line stores at the Galleria and they continue to pursue others. With the Summit fast approaching it's building limits, the Galleria will be in a position to start picking up other new comers to the market and start moving the mall further up-market. I think this has been something the management has been working on for years actually although it's a very slow process.

Given the right length of time, I think the Galleria could come to closely rival Lenox. If, for some reason, JC Penny and Sears ever decide to leave the mall for stand-alone locations near by, count on mall management to go after another semi-upscale anchor along the lines of Nordstrom. It would be a stretch, but Macy's might even push for a Bloomingdales if given the opportunity at the Galleria.

I have curiously wondered that myself about Riverchase being able to pull a Bloomingdale's. Although Charlotte has being viaing for one for a minute, I don't know if Macy's Inc. would open one here before there. As for the Summit, Bayer is aggressively pushing for a more upscale center there. Within 5 years, I see Brookwood, the Summit, and Riverchase all viaing to be this region's upscale destination. However, Riverchase will probably fulfill both the upscale and regional destination requirements.

[TRoberts]

I have curiously wondered that myself about Riverchase being able to pull a Bloomingdale's. Although Charlotte has being viaing for one for a minute, I don't know if Macy's Inc. would open one here before there. As for the Summit, Bayer is aggressively pushing for a more upscale center there. Within 5 years, I see Brookwood, the Summit, and Riverchase all viaing to be this region's upscale destination. However, Riverchase will probably fulfill both the upscale and regional destination requirements.

Unfortunately the problem with both Brookwood and the Summit is the lack of space. Both centers are basically built out completely and it would be hard to add more retail square footage without going up in some way. Brookwood could possibly do an exterior garage of some sort and reclaim some of the garage space under the current mall for additional inline space but there's virtually no where for an additional anchor to go. They are also going to limit their expansion possibilities with the addition of the rumored Westin on the 280 end of the mall.

Don't get me wrong, the Galleria doesn't exactly have a lot of space to expand into either but they already have the multi-story parking garage going in their favor. I think residents would fight any large-scale parking expansions at the Summit or Brookwood. The Galleria on the other hand could expand the northern garage into the area next to JC Penny's and then reclaim parking areas on other portions of the property for an outdoor Lifestyle expansion possible in the space between Macys entrance/mall entrance/upper level McRaes entrance. They could have a single loop road come in from the Galleria Circle and loop through that area and then back out to Galleria Circle. You could have some parrallel parking like Brookwood and a Valet Drop Off area as well. This would allow for a fairly large addition of a streetscape lifestyle area and be a potential location for several new restaurants and shops.

Another location that could be a possibility but would probably be fought would be around Penny's and Belk so that it's visible from 459.

I know all very visionary ideas but will probably take years to come to fruition if ever...

At least I'm not proposing the Olympics at Regions Park for 2020.

[VistaLakes01]

I have curiously wondered that myself about Riverchase being able to pull a Bloomingdale's. Although Charlotte has being viaing for one for a minute, I don't know if Macy's Inc. would open one here before there. As for the Summit, Bayer is aggressively pushing for a more upscale center there. Within 5 years, I see Brookwood, the Summit, and Riverchase all viaing to be this region's upscale destination. However, Riverchase will probably fulfill both the upscale and regional destination requirements.

I agree that Riverchase will be Birmingham's Signature shopping destination, like South Park in Charlotte, Millenia, Florida, and Altamonte Malls in Orlando, Aventura and Dadeland in Miami, Westshore and International Plaza in Tampa, Lenox/Phipps in Atlanta, The Galleria in Houston, etc. How many square feet in the Saks in the Summit? Saks has a reputation of opening smaller stores in some markets such as Sarasota and Naples, much like Jacobson's did in the past and is now doing again in Florida under new ownership. Jacobson's has returned to Winter Park's Park Avenue, and another location in Naples. The difference between a lifestyle center and Park Ave. and First St. in Naples or Miracle Mile in Coral Gables is they are the main streets of affluent cities and people and offices are clustered in those areas. Most lifestyle centers here in Orlando are being built as downtowns for suburban cities that really never had a downtown. Nordstrom chose Riverchase because it knows that's the place to be. Enclosed malls are not going out of style, they are re-inventing themselves. They are weather-resistant and eco friendly in comparison to a strip mall disguising itself as a "lifestyle center." The only major metro in Florida that I know of that is using a lifestyle center as a true shopping destination is Jacksonville with St. John's Town Center, probably because there is no true signature mall in that city. Lifestyle centers can put enclosed malls out of business, but they are not the true destination malls in those cities. A good example is Northland Mall in Columbus, Ohio. Easton Town Center contributed to it's downfall, but a few years later Columbus got a new shopping destination called Polaris Fashion Center. Riverchase will be a new mall again in the near future, because it isn't a dash-in, dash-out center, it is an experience. Nordstrom knows that. If the Summit actually had a large amount of residential incorporated in to it, that would be a different story. is a good example of lifestyle done right, they fail to mention that it is connected to a rejuvenated regional mall, Altamonte Mall, and that's where the major retail players are located.

[bhamsly]

I can see the triangle of south Birmingham malls(The Summit, Brookwood, & the Galleria) becoming destination centers. I really wish that the other Birmingham city mall(other than The Summit), Century Plaza, could be a successful mall once again. I would love to see Century Plaza remain a 2-level enclosed mall, with stores similar to that of The Pinnacle. The demographics(in terms of income) are very similar...correct me if I am wrong. The new Century Plaza could pick up the lower scale stores that are currently at Brookwood Mall, and replace them in the new CP, such as Body Shop, Charlotte Russe, Wet Seal, Know Style, and Aeropostale, in addition to new stores(Dillards, The Limited, Forever 21, GAP, Build a Bear,etc). With that idea, Brookwood would have a couple of spaces to lure upscale tenants who are wanting to be in the area, but lack a location.

The new CP could just be a family mall that is less expensive, and larger than Brookwood. It could also be a mall for everyone...ranging from low to higher incomes...urban to preppy styles, etc. I wish the malls owners would do something to help this mall out. I believe with Irondale, Mountain Brook, and the growth of Crestwood and Avondale, the mall should be reinvented.

[VistaLakes01]

I can see the triangle of south Birmingham malls(The Summit, Brookwood, & the Galleria) becoming destination centers. I really wish that the other Birmingham city mall(other than The Summit), Century Plaza, could be a successful mall once again. I would love to see Century Plaza remain a 2-level enclosed mall, with stores similar to that of The Pinnacle. The demographics(in terms of income) are very similar...correct me if I am wrong. The new Century Plaza could pick up the lower scale stores that are currently at Brookwood Mall, and replace them in the new CP, such as Body Shop, Charlotte Russe, Wet Seal, Know Style, and Aeropostale, in addition to new stores(Dillards, The Limited, Forever 21, GAP, Build a Bear,etc). With that idea, Brookwood would have a couple of spaces to lure upscale tenants who are wanting to be in the area, but lack a location.

The new CP could just be a family mall that is less expensive, and larger than Brookwood. It could also be a mall for everyone...ranging from low to higher incomes...urban to preppy styles, etc. I wish the malls owners would do something to help this mall out. I believe with Irondale, Mountain Brook, and the growth of Crestwood and Avondale, the mall should be reinvented.

They could to the CP what developers did to the Winter Park Mall here along time ago. Tear down most of it, they used the old Dillards for industrial loft apartments, the JCPenney became a grocery store. They built a main street connecting to the main hyw in front, lined it with shops with offices and apts above, put in those stores you mentioned plus lots of dining with lots of patio dining. They could put something semi-major, like a West Elm Store. Cost-Plus World Bazarre, a Season's 52 would be a great anchor restaurant, it's a Darden Prototype started here in Orlando in Dardenworld. Bahama Breeze is another Darden restaurant that doesn't have many locations, Brio Tuscan Grille, PF Changs, another Cheescake Factory, McCormick & Schmick, a BLUE MARTINI. would blow Birmingham away, that is a popular place everywhere it's located. Johhny Rockets, CPK, and at the end of main st. (the name of the main st. in WP Village is actually called Gay Rd. of all things, because it hooked to an older st. with that name) is a REGAL 21 Theater that show "art movies" along with another beloved theater down the steet. Parking garage on some vacant land, and a park to walk through with pond, fountain, etc. Would people drive to something like that from wealthier areas along with the residents in that area?

[bhamsly]

They could to the CP what developers did to the Winter Park Mall here along time ago. Tear down most of it, they used the old Dillards for industrial loft apartments, the JCPenney became a grocery store. They built a main street connecting to the main hyw in front, lined it with shops with offices and apts above, put in those stores you mentioned plus lots of dining with lots of patio dining. They could put something semi-major, like a West Elm Store. Cost-Plus World Bazarre, a Season's 52 would be a great anchor restaurant, it's a Darden Prototype started here in Orlando in Dardenworld. Bahama Breeze is another Darden restaurant that doesn't have many locations, Brio Tuscan Grille, PF Changs, another Cheescake Factory, McCormick & Schmick, a BLUE MARTINI. would blow Birmingham away, that is a popular place everywhere it's located. Johhny Rockets, CPK, and at the end of main st. (the name of the main st. in WP Village is actually called Gay Rd. of all things, because it hooked to an older st. with that name) is a REGAL 21 Theater that show "art movies" along with another beloved theater down the steet. Parking garage on some vacant land, and a park to walk through with pond, fountain, etc. Would people drive to something like that from wealthier areas along with the residents in that area?

I truly think that wealthier people would go there for the most part, I'm not totally sure. The areas to the South, East, and West part of that center are pretty good neighborhoods(especially towards the South). The area already boasts Red Lobster, Olive Garden, and Logan's, so I think these new restaurants would be a welcoming addition to a revitalized center. Birmingham already boasts Bahama Breeze(recently closed for no reason),The Cheesecake Factory, CPK(2), PF Changs, Johnny Rockets(2),and Brio Tuscan Grille. I think that Blue MArtini looks great, and would be a great asset for this area. At one point, there was talk about the mall being redeveloped into a towncenter with offices, and shops. I just hope that something great would happen to this mall, and to make the area great again.

[VistaLakes01]

I truly think that wealthier people would go there for the most part, I'm not totally sure. The areas to the South, East, and West part of that center are pretty good neighborhoods(especially towards the South). The area already boasts Red Lobster, Olive Garden, and Logan's, so I think these new restaurants would be a welcoming addition to a revitalized center. Birmingham already boasts Bahama Breeze(recently closed for no reason),The Cheesecake Factory, CPK(2), PF Changs, Johnny Rockets(2),and Brio Tuscan Grille. I think that Blue MArtini looks great, and would be a great asset for this area. At one point, there was talk about the mall being redeveloped into a towncenter with offices, and shops. I just hope that something great would happen to this mall, and to make the area great again.

I know the Vestavia/Hoover area but not really the other parts of town. Where is Century Plaza located? The name sounds kind of retro and cool now, sure it's from the 50s or 60s.

[eastcentralalabamateen]

I know the Vestavia/Hoover area but not really the other parts of town. Where is Century Plaza located? The name sounds kind of retro and cool now, sure it's from the 50s or 60s.

Century Plaza is located across from the former Eastwood Mall/new Wal*Mart Supercenter on Crestwood Blvd (U.S. Highway 78) off of the I-20/Oporto-Madrid Blvd S interchange.

It's only anchor of right now is a Sears. I don't know what happened to the other anchors, except the McRae's that used to be there.

[jeb1974]

Century Plaza is located across from the former Eastwood Mall/new Wal*Mart Supercenter on Crestwood Blvd (U.S. Highway 78) off of the I-20/Oporto-Madrid Blvd S interchange.

It's only anchor of right now is a Sears. I don't know what happened to the other anchors, except the McRae's that used to be there.

Rich's (now Macy's) closed around 2004 due to underperformance. The McRae's location was converted to Belk and closed very shortly afterwards. I think that JCPenney closed when it opened a Trussville location at the Pinnacle.

I believe that Century Plaza's original anchors were Rich's, Loveman's, JCPenney, and Sears. After Loveman's closed all of its stores due to bankruptcy, Pizitz relocated to the Loveman's space from Eastwood Mall. Pizitz sold out to Jackson, MS based McRae's in 1987. McRae's merged with Proffitt's during the 1990's but kept its name. Proffitt's, Inc. acquired Birmingham based Parisian in 1996 and Saks Fifth Avenue in 1998; they changed the corporation name then to Saks Incorporated. In the end, Saks Incorporated sold all of its department stores and Saks Fifth Avenue returned its headquarters to New York. McRae's and Proffitt's and later Parisian were sold to Belk. I believe most of their other department stores were sold to the Bon-Ton.

[kayman]

I truly think that wealthier people would go there for the most part, I'm not totally sure. The areas to the South, East, and West part of that center are pretty good neighborhoods(especially towards the South). The area already boasts Red Lobster, Olive Garden, and Logan's, so I think these new restaurants would be a welcoming addition to a revitalized center. Birmingham already boasts Bahama Breeze(recently closed for no reason),The Cheesecake Factory, CPK(2), PF Changs, Johnny Rockets(2),and Brio Tuscan Grille. I think that Blue MArtini looks great, and would be a great asset for this area. At one point, there was talk about the mall being redeveloped into a towncenter with offices, and shops. I just hope that something great would happen to this mall, and to make the area great again.

I agree that Century Plaza can be redeveloped into a mixed-used center if General Growth Properties would get off their hands and stop just watching the center to continue to decline. Crestwood is continuing to see more growth and increases in residences with disposable income that could support a revamped center with anchors like Sears, a trendy box chain store along with 2 additional junior anchors and numerous shops. It wouldn't even be outside of the realm of possibility that a movie theatre couldn't return to the area that plays more independent and artsy films that caters to the Crestwood and Montclair demographic.

[kayman]

http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2009/05/pl...ordstrom_s.html

It looks like the Nordstrom for Riverchase is cancelled by GGP due to it bankruptcy filing. The Nordstrom officials said that they are still actively searching to open a store in the area, but since GGP cancelled the store themselves.