Lynx Blue Line (South Corridor)

[atlrvr]

Also, the location of the possible additional station is basically at Inverson, if Iverson was extended west from South Blvd across the line to connect with Dunvant.

The city really wants that station, CATS doesn't, because it would add another 1 or 2 minutes to the trip.

I also went to the SE meeting and FINALLY got my question answered, which thrills me.....IF the SE line is LRT, then we would essentially have 3LRT lines.....one running Pineville->UC, one running Pineville->Matthews, and one running Matthews->UC......all running through uptown with their being a connecter between the southeast line and the South/Northeast line.....the transfer would take place on the western "Porkchop" parcel, with possibly airrights above the tracks sold, or public greenspace going there.

[monsoon]

Did they happen to mention the current projected cost of building the LRT to the SE and NE?

[atlrvr]

I didn't ask.....it was more of a walk-through open house for both....

I do feel quite confident that SE will be proposed as LRT.

Also, assuming that the west line is proposed as streetcar to the airport, it would be a continuation of 1 of 2 lines down Central Ave, with the other heading out Beatties Ford.....they feel that their is enough demand on Central to justify 2 streetcar lines.

[monsoon]

The MTA is supposed to decide all of the alternatives for each line by the end of the summer and the order in which they will be built. The biggest issue is there is almost no federal transit money available to build any of it. The administration and congress has made very little money available to fund transit and almost every city of Charlotte's size in the USA is proposing to build some kind of LRT or CR and they are all asking for the feds to pay for a significant part of it.

[atlrvr]

In my opinion, most cities are assuming that whoever takes over this country in 2008 will be more transit friendly......I sure hope so.

Essentially, we could have no new lines, or money for everything plus more with very little affect in the overall federal budget....it's kinda scary that one person can affect so much for Charlotte's future.

[monsoon]

BTW, I should point out that under the new rules put in place this year, the South LRT would not have been approved by the Feds as its cost effectiveness/ridership #'s are too low to qualify under the new requirements. This is what killed the TTA system in Raleigh. The South LRT was approved just in time and Charlotte was very lucky to get the money.

[MZT]

I think the momentum behind the south line was strong enough it still would have been built. Although there would have been more decontenting and it would have taken longer to complete. The 1/2 cent sales tax in Mecklenurg has more oomph to it than the Triangle's rental car tax.

I visted the open house yesterday, and although I didn't learn anything much beyond what CATS has on its websies, I did get the impression they've very familiar with every parcel near the line. From Scaleybark station north, they seem to be expecting a lot of redevelopment a few blocks east and west of it-- not just beside it.

[dubone]

The only Charlotte transit projects that will seek funding during the Bush years will be the North line and the Trade Street Streetcar. So near term funding concerns will not dictate what is selected for each corridor. The NE and SE lines are close to a decade away.

Rail seems to be the selected choice because the vehicles have a much longer lifespan, lower maintenance costs, and their better reputation is expected to yield high economic impact/development.

As for the South Line, I'm so excited about the prospect of an Iverson stop and crossing. It makes so much sense, as there is significant development potential, and it is not even close to being served by East/West and New Bern stations. The operation time costs are minimal, as 2 minutes does not hurt its competitiveness with driving. But having an extra station (a privately funded one at that) with all its nearby development of dense housing, retail, and employment, will yield more ridership.

In the meeting they also said that development energy is primarily focusing on Scaleybark through 7th St. The areas south of Scaleybark are not seeing the same level of development participation. But considering those stations primarily focus on feeder busses and park and ride lots, that is probably not that much of a big deal.

The only other point to note is that the QP tower, while cut from funding, just like much of the other art projects, will not be torn down. Instead they will wait to pursue arts funding in the future (They didn't say this, but I'm assuming private funding from developers, which seems very likely).

[MZT]

I'm not so enthusiastic about the Iverson stop-- looking at it for selfish reasons, that I want to get to work with as few stops in the way as possible.

But if it was entirely privately funded, that would go a long way towards demonstrating the potential of this project. And be something to throw back in the face of the Keith Larson types, etc who never quit bagging on mass transit.

[monsoon]

I think the momentum behind the south line was strong enough it still would have been built. Although there would have been more decontenting and it would have taken longer to complete. The 1/2 cent sales tax in Mecklenurg has more oomph to it than the Triangle's rental car tax.

They have spent $100M already on the TTA system, and the Feds are amazingly giving them $20M more next year. Yet the project did not receive a recommended status from the FTA and as a result is on hold. I don't know how you could have more momentum than that. $120M is 1/2 the cost of the entire North line. The fact of the matter is that transit funding has become much more difficult to get.

The $20M BTW was given to this system because the cars they were to have ordered are being built in Penn. (I believe) and the senators from there wanted to save that work.

[dubone]

It is impossible to know what would have been. I don't think momentum would have carried it, but I do think the South LRT line could have made some big budget cuts to improve cost effectiveness. I still think, while not ideal, they could have cut the bridges, and been free from a significant amount of commodity inflation, contractor price-grouging, and core costs. The only thing it would have cost to do that was a little bit of operational time, and some miffed cross town South Charlotte drivers.

Anyway, predicting the conditional past is an angel-pin debate, in my view. We got it, now let's keep it on budget, make it successful, and work hard to get the other lines to fund.

[monsoon]

Well I am not predicting the past. What I said was that the South LRT in its current form would not have gotten approval under the new rules now in effect. Of course they could have attemptedto make changes which is what the TTA is doing now.

[dubone]

Sadly, the version that will be built isn't even close to what was approved. They've cut quite a bit already. The contractors are really gouging on price.

But it is definitely true that the federal government has gotten more strict on the transit projects. And they don't seem to weigh in economic growth as much as the NC cities need.

I think if the fed had been as strict then, CATS simply wouldn't have added the large structures that added hundreds of millions to the costs. I bet far fewer very-expensive components will be added to the other lines as they go through engineering. Giving the engineers less breathing room on budget, they'll come up with more innovative solutions to problems rather than simply building a bridge over it. For example, they might have opted for an ITS system for South, Tyvola Woodlawn, Archdale, and Arrowood to ease traffic and operational impacts.

I'm sure we'll see very few new bridges on the other lines. The exception will be the SE line, which will get many of the bridges funded by the highway side rather than within CATS's budget.

[monsoon]

There are no bridges scheduled to be built on the North Line, and this most likely means the NE line stops prior to reaching 485.

[Durhamite]

This is good news from Charlotte Center City.org page regarding the original canopy design for the trade street station. Every city needs a David Furman

http://charlottecentercity.org/nav.cfm?cat...7&action=detail

[SmellyCat]

Every city needs a David Furman

Agreed. I happened to run into him several weeks ago with his wife. Honestly, they were just about 2 of the nicest people I've ever met. When I told him I used to live in NYC, he was joking that he loved it, but it was like "everything there is on steroids". Great quote.

[dubone]

After seeing these rendering, I rescind my comments that the design looked like an aluminum car port. I really like the night lighting and the glassy look in those pics. I'm glad to have Furman, Novare, Levine and Bank of America. It is amazing that they pooled half a million for a transit stop. Hopefully that will help solidify perceptions that transit is helping spur uptown and south blvd redevelopment.

[monsoon]

In its usual half-assed reporting, WCNC is running a story about the cost of the light rail line and ridership.

They provide the following graphic:

• Complete - 2025

• South Corridor Next Year

• Price: $952 Million

• Ridership 18,300

Anybody know how they came up with this?

The talking heads are also reporting this as if were new news "We now know the project is expected to be completed in 2025". Gee, I would have thought the plan name "2025 plan" might have given that away several years ago.

[AuLukey]

In its usual half-assed reporting, WCNC is running a story about the cost of the light rail line and ridership.

They provide the following graphic:

• Complete - 2025

• South Corridor Next Year

• Price: $952 Million

• Ridership 18,300

Anybody know how they came up with this?

The talking heads are also reporting this as if were new news "We now know the project is expected to be completed in 2025". Gee, I would have thought the plan name "2025 plan" might have given that away several years ago.

The ridership projection of 18,300 came from a thorough, detailed, and well thought out census based on pulling numbers out of a hat.

[Mobuchu]

Now that was funny...

[queensguy06]

Giving the engineers less breathing room on budget, they'll come up with more innovative solutions to problems rather than simply building a bridge over it. For example, they might have opted for an ITS system for South, Tyvola Woodlawn, Archdale, and Arrowood to ease traffic and operational impacts.

But boy, I am sure glad they built bridges over a couple of those roads. I commute from South Charlotte to the Myers Park area everyday, and both Tyvola and Woodlawn are the two major roads that needed bridges. I couldn't imagine having a train come by every 5 min. or so during rush hour - it is already a nightmare trying to drive those roads.

[dubone]

Are you also opposed to intersections of thoroughfares in south Charlotte?

Roads have traffic coming more frequently than the tracks would. The tracks at least can be predicted, so that they coincide with a time that South Blvd would be green.

I certainly am glad they were built, as it was still funded by the feds, despite a lower cost to benefit ratio. But those rules have changed, and now the feds don't offset the rating on cost by landuse and economic generation (measures that Charlotte did very well on). There are other ways to ease the burden on cross traffic, by having computers plan the signals so that cross traffic stops when it would have needed to be stopped anyway for other roads.

[RugbyPike#11]

Are you also opposed to intersections of thoroughfares in south Charlotte?

Roads have traffic coming more frequently than the tracks would. The tracks at least can be predicted, so that they coincide with a time that South Blvd would be green.

I certainly am glad they were built, as it was still funded by the feds, despite a lower cost to benefit ratio. But those rules have changed, and now the feds don't offset the rating on cost by landuse and economic generation (measures that Charlotte did very well on). There are other ways to ease the burden on cross traffic, by having computers plan the signals so that cross traffic stops when it would have needed to be stopped anyway for other roads.

How long does it take for a light rail car to pass an intersection? It doesn't seem to me like it should take very long, probably less time than a normal traffic light. That said, the passovers have a certain cool factor.

I was driving down Tyvola with a friend from Rock Hill; when we were driving under the overpass, he wanted to know what the construction was for. I'm guessing that he wouldn't have noticed new stop lights and barriers but the overpass is very impressive IMO.

[revitalize]

The trains will only be two cars long - its not like you'll have to wait for a freight train a mile long to pass by every 7 minutes...

[cinco]

I commute from South Charlotte to the Myers Park area everyday, and both Tyvola and Woodlawn are the two major roads that needed bridges. I couldn't imagine having a train come by every 5 min. or so during rush hour - it is already a nightmare trying to drive those roads.

yeah, it's pretty nuts over there. hopefully alot of those autos will disappear from that area as people will take the LYNX. i mean the rail is supposed to alleviate some of the traffic problems.